Your strong nighttime (skywave) AM stations?

[LibertyNT]

Ah ok. How strong are they typically compared to signals like 570 KLIF, 620 KMKI, 820 WBAP or 1080 KRLD?
.

Well anything compared to 570 KLIF is good for me, I live in their null.

870, 1570, and 1200 all come in like Locals at night.
870 being the absolute best.
A few of the X Banders come in pretty darned good at
night like 1680 and 1660. But not as strong as the others.

 

[charlestondxman]

Charleston, SC

870 WWL (usually in strong, sometimes interferes with 880)
1100 WTAM (very strong most of the time)
880 WCBS (comes in well almost every night)
1000 WMVP (surprisingly strong)
1110 WBT (closest, but we are in the very edge of their cancellation zone plus they get interference. 50 miles S it's strong)
750 WSB (also gets interference, from Caracas)
1120 KMOX (in almost every morning during Winter)
760 WJR (not much else on frequency, booms in often)

Those are just the strongest ones. Some come in almost every night. WLS, surprisingly, is the strongest Chicago clear, and there's many others too.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Most places I have been east of Chicago, WCFL/WMVP 1000 skywave exceeds WLS 890 because it is directional favoring the east. The WCFL/WMVP groundwave signal is quite a bit stronger on the north side of Chicago, and is the only station in Chicago to put a 25 mV/m signal over the entire City of Chicago, predicted anyway. I am surprised that WCFL didn't beat WLS back during the Top 40 radio wars during the mid 1960s to mid 1970s. The programming on WCFL was quite comparable, the sound quality was comparable, and the signal was better over a big area. Wonder if PPM would have shown the same results.

 

[radioman148]

Most places I have been east of Chicago, WCFL/WMVP 1000 skywave exceeds WLS 890 because it is directional favoring the east. The WCFL/WMVP groundwave signal is quite a bit stronger on the north side of Chicago, and is the only station in Chicago to put a 25 mV/m signal over the entire City of Chicago, predicted anyway. I am surprised that WCFL didn't beat WLS back during the Top 40 radio wars during the mid 1960s to mid 1970s. The programming on WCFL was quite comparable, the sound quality was comparable, and the signal was better over a big area. Wonder if PPM would have shown the same results.

Two things: WLS was first, that counts for alot. Also I went to college in De Kalb, 60 miles west of WCFL's sticks. During the day CFL's signal was about
20% as strong as WLS. At night WCFL was barely audible. If you were west of Chicago WCFL had a terrible signal west of Sugar Grove, Il.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Most places I have been east of Chicago, WCFL/WMVP 1000 skywave exceeds WLS 890 because it is directional favoring the east. The WCFL/WMVP groundwave signal is quite a bit stronger on the north side of Chicago, and is the only station in Chicago to put a 25 mV/m signal over the entire City of Chicago, predicted anyway. I am surprised that WCFL didn't beat WLS back during the Top 40 radio wars during the mid 1960s to mid 1970s. The programming on WCFL was quite comparable, the sound quality was comparable, and the signal was better over a big area. Wonder if PPM would have shown the same results.

Two things: WLS was first, that counts for alot. Also I went to college in De Kalb, 60 miles west of WCFL's sticks. During the day CFL's signal was about
20% as strong as WLS. At night WCFL was barely audible. If you were west of Chicago WCFL had a terrible signal west of Sugar Grove, Il.

Back at that time, there weren't that many people west of the towers compared to east, though. Wasn't WJJD first at Top 40, and first at Country, and look how fickle the audience was to flock to WLS and WMAQ? I guess if you go way back, WLS was Country at least part of the time.

 

[Icangelp]

WJJD the rock & roll station was what I would describe as off beat, low budget & loose. They were owned by Plough & Company, so the the St. Joseph's aspirin commercials seemed to run every half hour. Used to listen to Stan Majors whose show ran till SLC LSS shutdown. Being essentially a daytime operation was a major drawback.

When WLS stormed in with a tight playlist, strong jocks & a sophisticated branding package, plus the one and only Dick Biondi at night, all was lost.

I must admit I loved WJJD, but then I was always a fan of the Disc Jockey rather than the station.

 

[radioman148]

Most places I have been east of Chicago, WCFL/WMVP 1000 skywave exceeds WLS 890 because it is directional favoring the east. The WCFL/WMVP groundwave signal is quite a bit stronger on the north side of Chicago, and is the only station in Chicago to put a 25 mV/m signal over the entire City of Chicago, predicted anyway. I am surprised that WCFL didn't beat WLS back during the Top 40 radio wars during the mid 1960s to mid 1970s. The programming on WCFL was quite comparable, the sound quality was comparable, and the signal was better over a big area. Wonder if PPM would have shown the same results.

Two things: WLS was first, that counts for alot. Also I went to college in De Kalb, 60 miles west of WCFL's sticks. During the day CFL's signal was about
20% as strong as WLS. At night WCFL was barely audible. If you were west of Chicago WCFL had a terrible signal west of Sugar Grove, Il.

Back at that time, there weren't that many people west of the towers compared to east, though. Wasn't WJJD first at Top 40, and first at Country, and look how fickle the audience was to flock to WLS and WMAQ? I guess if you go way back, WLS was Country at least part of the time.

WJJD was fun to listen to during the day, but at night in the late 50s we had to switch to WIND which was more MOR. WJJD's daytime only license limited them greatly.
As Icangelp pointed out, WLS' presentation was so far superior in everyway that WJJD went MOR within a year after WLS started.
WJJD was quite handicapped by their budget & limited hours and their DJs for the most part were not "hip".

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I would be hard pressed to say that WLS was significantly better programmed than WCFL, though. And over the years, they had a lot of the same DJs. The tight WLS playlist and late adds of tracks of new and past prime recording acts after they were hits everywhere else was downright aggravating, and I'm sure WCFL benefitted somewhat from that. Still puzzles me that WCFL didn't do better in the ratings. The ARSA site shows this clearly. Luckily, I could also hear my local and adjacent markets who broke tracks much faster than WLS. CKLW, WKNR, WTAC, and WTRX were a few of the stations in my area who made quality judgements and added tracks early. ARSA shows WPAG was another early add station, though I listened to that less.

 

[Cincinnati Kid]

I've never been a fan of rock or of top 40 radio, but certainly know the listernship that WLS had with college students in their dorms in the 1960's, most particularly those in the center of the U.S. Back then, some AM stations may have signed off in the towns that had colleges and WLS night-time signal came roaring in even through fluorescent lighting, etc. It also helped when DJ's such as Dick Biondi acknowledged the various colleges and even dorms on their campuses on the air.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

WJJD Top 40 Surveys

Does anyone know when WJJD dropped Top 40? Did it go right to Country or was it MOR in between?

http://las-solanas.com/arsa/stations_item.php?&lttl=1&srt1=tsc_prs DESC&vqry=WJJD&lidx=0&rsid=330

 

[radioman148]

I would be hard pressed to say that WLS was significantly better programmed than WCFL, though. And over the years, they had a lot of the same DJs. The tight WLS playlist and late adds of tracks of new and past prime recording acts after they were hits everywhere else was downright aggravating, and I'm sure WCFL benefitted somewhat from that. Still puzzles me that WCFL didn't do better in the ratings. The ARSA site shows this clearly. Luckily, I could also hear my local and adjacent markets who broke tracks much faster than WLS. CKLW, WKNR, WTAC, and WTRX were a few of the stations in my area who made quality judgements and added tracks early. ARSA shows WPAG was another early add station, though I listened to that less.

You make a valid point about WLS jumping on records late after they were established hits in most markets already.
This was especially true in the late 60s & 70s when Rick Sklar PD of WABC was also advising WLS. It was Sklar's philosophy to only play the established hits and keep the playlist short. This infuriated some of his DJs at WABC such as Scott Muni who left for that exact reason.
Back to WLS, in the early 60s they had a wider playlist and featured lots of records which were not yet established hits.
Example A) Dick Biondi was the first DJ to play the Beatles "Please Please Me" in Feb of 63 a full year before the British Invasion hit our shores.

 

[radioman148]

WJJD Top 40 Surveys

Does anyone know when WJJD dropped Top 40? Did it go right to Country or was it MOR in between?

http://las-solanas.com/arsa/stations_item.php?&lttl=1&srt1=tsc_prs DESC&vqry=WJJD&lidx=0&rsid=330

WJJD began a slow move to MOR around 1961 or 62. They still played some records that would be considered Top 40 during those years, but also were heading in a more MOR direction. The weekly top 40 survey that was published with their name was taken over in mid 1960 by the company that actually printed it. In other words, the WJJD name was off what had been their survey around mid 1960. The official title of that survey from then on was "Top Tunes" and that survey continued until 1963.
WLS began publishing their weekly survey on Oct 14, 1960.

WJJD went country in 1965.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

I would be hard pressed to say that WLS was significantly better programmed than WCFL, though. And over the years, they had a lot of the same DJs. The tight WLS playlist and late adds of tracks of new and past prime recording acts after they were hits everywhere else was downright aggravating, and I'm sure WCFL benefitted somewhat from that. Still puzzles me that WCFL didn't do better in the ratings. The ARSA site shows this clearly. Luckily, I could also hear my local and adjacent markets who broke tracks much faster than WLS. CKLW, WKNR, WTAC, and WTRX were a few of the stations in my area who made quality judgements and added tracks early. ARSA shows WPAG was another early add station, though I listened to that less.

You make a valid point about WLS jumping on records late after they were established hits in most markets already.
This was especially true in the late 60s & 70s when Rick Sklar PD of WABC was also advising WLS. It was Sklar's philosophy to only play the established hits and keep the playlist short. This infuriated some of his DJs at WABC such as Scott Muni who left for that exact reason.
Back to WLS, in the early 60s they had a wider playlist and featured lots of records which were not yet established hits.
Example A) Dick Biondi was the first DJ to play the Beatles "Please Please Me" in Feb of 63 a full year before the British Invasion hit our shores.

It was almost like WLS was a "recurrent" station rather than a Top 40 station. When WLS would add a record, that was the signal to other stations to put that record in the recurrent bin, still played in the rotation, but much less frequently than the currents. I agree from looking at online surveys that WLS added much more quickly in the early 1960s. And for the New Colony Six and the Cryan' Shames, WLS broke their singles. The New Colony Six, for those who don't remember, was a Chicago group that was doing 1970s Style Adult Contemporary in the late 1960s. The style was fresh then, it got repetitive in the 1970s when everyone was doing AC.

 

[radioman148]

I would be hard pressed to say that WLS was significantly better programmed than WCFL, though. And over the years, they had a lot of the same DJs. The tight WLS playlist and late adds of tracks of new and past prime recording acts after they were hits everywhere else was downright aggravating, and I'm sure WCFL benefitted somewhat from that. Still puzzles me that WCFL didn't do better in the ratings. The ARSA site shows this clearly. Luckily, I could also hear my local and adjacent markets who broke tracks much faster than WLS. CKLW, WKNR, WTAC, and WTRX were a few of the stations in my area who made quality judgements and added tracks early. ARSA shows WPAG was another early add station, though I listened to that less.

You make a valid point about WLS jumping on records late after they were established hits in most markets already.
This was especially true in the late 60s & 70s when Rick Sklar PD of WABC was also advising WLS. It was Sklar's philosophy to only play the established hits and keep the playlist short. This infuriated some of his DJs at WABC such as Scott Muni who left for that exact reason.
Back to WLS, in the early 60s they had a wider playlist and featured lots of records which were not yet established hits.
Example A) Dick Biondi was the first DJ to play the Beatles "Please Please Me" in Feb of 63 a full year before the British Invasion hit our shores.

It was almost like WLS was a "recurrent" station rather than a Top 40 station. When WLS would add a record, that was the signal to other stations to put that record in the recurrent bin, still played in the rotation, but much less frequently than the currents. I agree from looking at online surveys that WLS added much more quickly in the early 1960s. And for the New Colony Six and the Cryan' Shames, WLS broke their singles. The New Colony Six, for those who don't remember, was a Chicago group that was doing 1970s Style Adult Contemporary in the late 1960s. The style was fresh then, it got repetitive in the 1970s when everyone was doing AC.

The edict came out of New York that WLS should be programmed like WABC. Since it worked so successfully for WABC there was no arguing with the Rick Sklar method. WCFL only beat WLS in one rating book in 1973. They never beat them any other time in the ratings and for the most part WLS usually clobbered them in the ratings.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

radioman148, in the 1960s and early 1970s, when DJs like John Landecker (as Dow Jones in 1966), Jim Hampton, Bill Hennes (later at WMAQ) (at WTRX he was John Paul Jones), and George Stagg/Allan Stagg (WLS and various 94.7 entities), were spinning records at WTRX Flint, MI, they were playing songs as much as thirteen weeks before WLS played them! So we even had the some of the same DJs breaking the records WLS refused to play! At least until they were ready for the recurrent bin everywhere else.

When I was studying at the University of Michigan, I propped a portable radio up against a drain pipe in a building (for nearly fade free reception) one evening in 1976, and heard John Landecker play "Play That Funky Music" every 46 minutes on WLS for the entire shift. Locals and nearby markets, like you say, had signed off, reduced power, changed patterns, or were interfered with except during Auroral groundwave conditions.

 

[radioman148]

radioman148, in the 1960s and early 1970s, when DJs like John Landecker (as Dow Jones in 1966), Jim Hampton, Bill Hennes (later at WMAQ) (at WTRX he was John Paul Jones), and George Stagg/Allan Stagg (WLS and various 94.7 entities), were spinning records at WTRX Flint, MI, they were playing songs as much as thirteen weeks before WLS played them! So we even had the some of the same DJs breaking the records WLS refused to play! At least until they were ready for the recurrent bin everywhere else.

When I was studying at the University of Michigan, I propped a portable radio up against a drain pipe in a building (for nearly fade free reception) one evening in 1976, and heard John Landecker play "Play That Funky Music" every 46 minutes on WLS for the entire shift. Locals and nearby markets, like you say, had signed off, reduced power, changed patterns, or were interfered with except during Auroral groundwave conditions.

That was another Rick Sklar theory--the number 1 record had to be played at least once an hour. At WABC he made sure the #1 record was the 2nd song played every hour. If you think WLS was late on records, WABC was much worse.

 

[cyberdad]

In Northern Illinois the strongest night signals for me have usually been, WLW, WSM, WBZ, WRVA, WLAC,& KXEL. WBZ is not quite as strong as it used to be, but still very good.

You forgot WHAS, their signal is one of the best around here. I'd add WJR, WTAM and WCCO to your list as well.

[/quote]

Back to the original topic...

As neighbor to both of you guys, I'll second that list and add WWL and WCKY (BEFORE they go to their night pattern, which is a couple of hours after local sunset). I'll take your word for WHAS. I stopped listening when they dumped Joe Donavan (just kidding!)

Since I'm in London this weekend, I'll add a Euro perspective. I haven't been able to DX much and probably won't... lower floor hotel room and somewhat noisy, etc. But, when I did fire up the SRF 37 last night, U.S. Armed Forces radio certainly had one of the strongest, if not the strongest, skywave on 873. Noise was covering up Croatia on 1134 when I checked that one. Belgium on 621 was also good, but that's groundwave.

I just discovered that the SRF 37 I have with me has longwave....I have two of these radios and this is the first time I noticed that. Apparently on past trips, I've had the other unit, which doesn't have that. I'm not expecting much, but I'll check that out when I get a chance.

 

[radioman148]

In Northern Illinois the strongest night signals for me have usually been, WLW, WSM, WBZ, WRVA, WLAC,& KXEL. WBZ is not quite as strong as it used to be, but still very good.

You forgot WHAS, their signal is one of the best around here. I'd add WJR, WTAM and WCCO to your list as well.

Back to the original topic...

As neighbor to both of you guys, I'll second that list and add WWL and WCKY (BEFORE they go to their night pattern, which is a couple of hours after local sunset). I'll take your word for WHAS. I stopped listening when they dumped Joe Donavan (just kidding!)

Since I'm in London this weekend, I'll add a Euro perspective. I haven't been able to DX much and probably won't... lower floor hotel room and somewhat noisy, etc. But, when I did fire up the SRF 37 last night, U.S. Armed Forces radio certainly had one of the strongest, if not the strongest, skywave on 873. Noise was covering up Croatia on 1134 when I checked that one. Belgium on 621 was also good, but that's groundwave.

I just discovered that the SRF 37 I have with me has longwave....I have two of these radios and this is the first time I noticed that. Apparently on past trips, I've had the other unit, which doesn't have that. I'm not expecting much, but I'll check that out when I get a chance.
[/quote]

Where does the US Armed Forces station on 873 transmit from? I believe I heard it once when I was using Global Tuners in the UK.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Back to the original topic:

Off the top of my head, our strongest - soiid, nearly local skywave signals are WHAS/840, WMVP/1000, KYW/1060. and WQEW/1560.

In fact, we have a local 1060 daytimer that just upgraded to 15 kW, and near sign-off, KYW pretty much obliterates it off the dial. (I'm not in the COL for the local 1060.)

1560 is so strong here, we get it better at night than the "local" Radio Disney outlet, WWMK/1260 Cleveland. (I'm also out of 1260's stronger night pattern, tho.)

 

[jd]

Here in East Texas, a little west of Tyler, no real surprises when it comes to nighttime skywave. The best are WWL 870, XEG 1050, WOAI 1200 and XERF 1570.

A little info from way back in my early DXing days shows how strong the Mexican stations were. XEG frequently ran sponsored programs that gave a Fort Worth address and created the impression that they were more or less a U.S. station. At one point it was also listed in the local phone book. XERF (which was running the full 250kW) had a Fort Worth area sales office back then, too. It was on Highway 183 northeast of the city in Euless, pretty close to the Tarrant/Dallas county line.