Your theory on why cumulus/ticket just sold 104.1?!

[rbrucecarter5]

Doesn't WBAP get higher ratings? Maybe Cumulus wants to put WBAP-FM on Cedar Hill and put the Ticket on 96.7 instead. The tower is farther away than 104.1 is, but the Class C signal gives DFW better coverage than the Sanger tower.

6200W on a 600' tower = not very good. I imagine they get hammered by KRBE in the south part of Dallas whenever there is any skip at all. From what I remember in the 80's, KRBE was listenable anywhere south of I-30, and only got stronger the further south you went in the metroplex. For some reason - there were all the other Missouri City sticks, then there was KRBE - which peeled paint along I-10 from Lake Charles to San Antonio and Austin, and up I-45 and I-35 into the south part of the metroplex. Knowing that, I'd personally still have jumped at the chance to put a 104.1 in Dallas, but I would have known I was in for difficulty when there was any skip at all. And Houston to Dallas skip is much more frequent than Dallas to Houston. I don't think 104.1 will ever be more than a rim shot to the Northern suburbs.

 

[jd]

That's easy...Cumulus wants a FULL C from Cedar Hill. Getting rid of the rimshot allows for the opening. No doubt they will put the Ticket on a new Full C when they get one as that is good strategic planning for the future, doing it before there's any erosion The addition of a FULL C also allows them the ability to flip one of the country C's to CHR IF warranted giving I-93.3 a FULL C to compete against KISS-FM...If Cumulus simply wanted any Full C in the area there are many rimshots such as 94.5 they could purchase at any time.

93.3 cannot be a "full Class C," not from where they are now or from Cedar Hill. Ever. So forget that part of the theory. I'll stick by my prediction of them going after 104.9 or 106.7, both of which have good signals in Denton and Collin County and adequate coverage over a good portion of Dallas County. Liberman needs the cash.

 

[Jay Walker]

That's easy...Cumulus wants a FULL C from Cedar Hill. Getting rid of the rimshot allows for the opening. No doubt they will put the Ticket on a new Full C when they get one as that is good strategic planning for the future, doing it before there's any erosion The addition of a FULL C also allows them the ability to flip one of the country C's to CHR IF warranted giving I-93.3 a FULL C to compete against KISS-FM...If Cumulus simply wanted any Full C in the area there are many rimshots such as 94.5 they could purchase at any time.

93.3 cannot be a "full Class C," not from where they are now or from Cedar Hill. Ever. So forget that part of the theory. I'll stick by my prediction of them going after 104.9 or 106.7, both of which have good signals in Denton and Collin County and adequate coverage over a good portion of Dallas County. Liberman needs the cash.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my replies.

I said that IF Cumulus gets a Full C they would move Ticket "programming" to the new Full C. I also mentioned that IF it was warranted I-93.3 could move "programming" to one of the country full C sticks either KPLX or KSCS but again only if it was warranted by ratings performance of I-93 programming...

You are correct, every Cedar Hill FM and DFW FM stations are pretty locked into the current allocated power and height. All of the northern rimshots are also in the same situation. 104.9 is a C0 @ 20kw erp and 106.7 is further north than 96.7, both have the same issues in downtown Dallas, so it's no gain with either of those...

 

[Jay Walker]

Doesn't WBAP get higher ratings? Maybe Cumulus wants to put WBAP-FM on Cedar Hill and put the Ticket on 96.7 instead. The tower is farther away than 104.1 is, but the Class C signal gives DFW better coverage than the Sanger tower.

6200W on a 600' tower = not very good. I imagine they get hammered by KRBE in the south part of Dallas whenever there is any skip at all. From what I remember in the 80's, KRBE was listenable anywhere south of I-30, and only got stronger the further south you went in the metroplex. For some reason - there were all the other Missouri City sticks, then there was KRBE - which peeled paint along I-10 from Lake Charles to San Antonio and Austin, and up I-45 and I-35 into the south part of the metroplex. Knowing that, I'd personally still have jumped at the chance to put a 104.1 in Dallas, but I would have known I was in for difficulty when there was any skip at all. And Houston to Dallas skip is much more frequent than Dallas to Houston. I don't think 104.1 will ever be more than a rim shot to the Northern suburbs.

rbrucecarter5 take it from me who knows personally how bad Tropo is from the south in April/May/June. Even my Full Cs on Cedar Hill get hammered sometimes from as far as northern Mexico.
Every morning...during April/May/June.
Use to be a pain dealing with PD's who would understandably "freak out" I use to email a Tropo map every week day to stay ahead of the issue.

 

[sox fan matt]

Isn't 98.3 (La Zeta) at about the same height as 104.9 or 106.7 as well? They would have the same challenges-being hammered in downtown Dallas or am I mistaken/

 

[mp3trojan]

That's easy...Cumulus wants a FULL C from Cedar Hill. Getting rid of the rimshot allows for the opening. No doubt they will put the Ticket on a new Full C when they get one as that is good strategic planning for the future, doing it before there's any erosion The addition of a FULL C also allows them the ability to flip one of the country C's to CHR IF warranted giving I-93.3 a FULL C to compete against KISS-FM...If Cumulus simply wanted any Full C in the area there are many rimshots such as 94.5 they could purchase at any time.

93.3 cannot be a "full Class C," not from where they are now or from Cedar Hill. Ever. So forget that part of the theory. I'll stick by my prediction of them going after 104.9 or 106.7, both of which have good signals in Denton and Collin County and adequate coverage over a good portion of Dallas County. Liberman needs the cash.

Here's another thing to consider. I wonder if 93.5 KIKT Greenville's transmitter move from Greenville to Cooper TX is related. Currently a full C from 93.3 would no doubt interfere with 93.5.

 

[Triple Fake Jerry]

That's easy...Cumulus wants a FULL C from Cedar Hill. Getting rid of the rimshot allows for the opening. No doubt they will put the Ticket on a new Full C when they get one as that is good strategic planning for the future, doing it before there's any erosion The addition of a FULL C also allows them the ability to flip one of the country C's to CHR IF warranted giving I-93.3 a FULL C to compete against KISS-FM...If Cumulus simply wanted any Full C in the area there are many rimshots such as 94.5 they could purchase at any time.

93.3 cannot be a "full Class C," not from where they are now or from Cedar Hill. Ever. So forget that part of the theory. I'll stick by my prediction of them going after 104.9 or 106.7, both of which have good signals in Denton and Collin County and adequate coverage over a good portion of Dallas County. Liberman needs the cash.

Here's another thing to consider. I wonder if 93.5 KIKT Greenville's transmitter move from Greenville to Cooper TX is related. Currently a full C from 93.3 would no doubt interfere with 93.5.

KMKT 93.1 would have to move from Denison too, then. Same issue.

 

[salemjedi54]

That's easy...Cumulus wants a FULL C from Cedar Hill. Getting rid of the rimshot allows for the opening. No doubt they will put the Ticket on a new Full C when they get one as that is good strategic planning for the future, doing it before there's any erosion The addition of a FULL C also allows them the ability to flip one of the country C's to CHR IF warranted giving I-93.3 a FULL C to compete against KISS-FM...If Cumulus simply wanted any Full C in the area there are many rimshots such as 94.5 they could purchase at any time.

93.3 cannot be a "full Class C," not from where they are now or from Cedar Hill. Ever. So forget that part of the theory. I'll stick by my prediction of them going after 104.9 or 106.7, both of which have good signals in Denton and Collin County and adequate coverage over a good portion of Dallas County. Liberman needs the cash.

Here's another thing to consider. I wonder if 93.5 KIKT Greenville's transmitter move from Greenville to Cooper TX is related. Currently a full C from 93.3 would no doubt interfere with 93.5.

KMKT 93.1 would have to move from Denison too, then. Same issue.

I thought Cumulus shut that station down to boost 93.3

 

[Mediafrog+]

6200W on a 600' tower = not very good. I imagine they get hammered by KRBE in the south part of Dallas whenever there is any skip at all. From what I remember in the 80's, KRBE was listenable anywhere south of I-30, and only got stronger the further south you went in the metroplex.

In the 1970's, when 104.1 was unoccupied in DFW, KOFM (now KMGL) in OKC would frequently put in a good signal during strong tropo conditions. I probably heard it more often than KRBE. Of course this was years before the tall Missouri City sticks were built.

 

[Ryan Williams]

Here's another thing to consider. I wonder if 93.5 KIKT Greenville's transmitter move from Greenville to Cooper TX is related. Currently a full C from 93.3 would no doubt interfere with 93.5.

Susquehanna/Cumulus used to own the Greenville station and unloaded it, ostensibly, because they gave up on upgrading 93.3 much further.

However, don't forget that Cumulus does actually have an outstanding application to move 93.3's antenna from Loop 12 just north of 30 to the Bank of America Plaza in downtown. It will have lower power, but twice the height. The central location should help it in the more dense Dallas areas and the improved height should improve the signal further out in the suburbs. Tarrant and Denton county coverage will probably be worse.

Once upgraded, it would be nicely paired with 107.1, 95.9 or to a lesser extent 92.1. Cumulus doesn't own any of those stations currently.

 

[Ryan Williams]

104.1 FM comes in fine in most of Collin County. I have a crappy factory radio and I can receive it as far east as the western edge of Greenville. Outside the 60-dBu circle, the signal is still pretty clear, but some nights when there is strong tropo, it can get pretty choppy in McKinney.

104.1 does not come in fine on most non-car radios in Collin county.

 

[Ryan Williams]

96.7 would be an improvement "sort of" in Collin Co. over 104.1 but not by as much as you would think...

You've posted lots of smart, informed analysis in this thread, almost all of it I agree with and I respect your opinions, however, the statement about 96.7 being only marginally better than 104.1 in Collin County is not accurate. Not on paper or in real-world listening across different types of radios. There is virtually no place in Collin County where 104.1 is even equal to 96.7 and in most places is significantly inferior. Even if you go to the far northwest corner of the county, closest to the 104.1 transmitter, around Celina. 96.7's antenna is about 25 miles further west than 104.1's, but it has more than triple the height (HAAT) and more than 14X the power.

I believe that 96.7 is substantially better than 104.1 in basically all of Collin county (and in most of the parts of Denton County that matter too). Load up the KMLs for both overlapped in Google Earth and take a look. Or even better, drive around Frisco, Plano and McKinney and punch between the two stations. Take a pocket radio inside Stonebriar and walk around comparing the signals. Try table radios inside homes or offices in Plano. It's not very close in my opinion. 96.7 (or 98.3 if they buy it) would be a very meaningful upgrade for The Ticket over 104.1.

 

[LibertyNT]

I thought Cumulus shut that station down to boost 93.3

Nope,
KMKT is still alive n kickin. One of the stronger Sherman Stations in McKinney.
KMAD 102.5 used to come in great until KGGR got that 102.5 translator.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

I believe that 96.7 is substantially better than 104.1 in basically all of Collin county (and in most of the parts of Denton County that matter too).

Here are some Longley-Rice (using Doug Lung's core code, adapted for FM) maps I prepared for several markets of interest to me and a few colleagues. Since the focus of discussion is on our region, visit the URL below, then scroll down to Dallas-Ft. Worth. A smattering of some Cedar Hill and rimshot facilities are available.

For an A/B comparison between WBAP-FM (96.7) and KTDK (104.1), I find it best to open the two maps in browser tabs since it's easy to look at both of them side by side.

http://www.onairusa.com/fm/

 

[bucwhyl]

Maybe the city of Dallas will sell 101.1 to them....

 

[Jay Walker]

Maybe the city of Dallas will sell 101.1 to them....

That was tried sometime back when values were topped out and failed. I don't think it will happen this time now that values have declined...
We'll all know at some point.

 

[Robert Bass]

I don't see it happening. The "Friends of WRR" would never let it happen.

Or so I keep hearing...

R

 

[salemjedi54]

I don't see it happening. The "Friends of WRR" would never let it happen.

Or so I keep hearing...

R

That is so true. Susquehanna/Service had a great plan to flip KRNB to 93.3, KDBN to 101.1 and WRR-FM to 105.7 and it got nowhere fast.

 

[Ryan Williams]

I don't see it happening. The "Friends of WRR" would never let it happen.

Or so I keep hearing...

R

I think eventually the City of Dallas will get out of the broadcasting business, but the sale will not be cheap or anything close to quick and I do not believe that WRR is what Cumulus is making room for right now.

 

[Ryan Williams]

That is so true. Susquehanna/Service had a great plan to flip KRNB to 93.3, KDBN to 101.1 and WRR-FM to 105.7 and it got nowhere fast.

I remember that deal. Some kind of Urban or Urban AC on 93.3 would be a very nice fit, classical on 105.7, not as much. Especially for the owner, City of Dallas, since virtually none of the city is inside the city-grade contour of 105.7.