Buddy announced John Zach will be joining the WECK morning show as of July 10. Outstanding move IMO
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Zach is Back!!!
- Thread starter Rob Piotrowski
- Start date
Am I to assume Zach was pushed out of WBEN and it wasn't a voluntary retirement after all?
Absolutely not a bad thing. We know that what some like to call "corporate" radio does not choose to serve listeners over 55, yet our communities may have as much as a third of their population in that group. So if someone can make money serving that audience, they are worthy of encouragement.
Radio often lets people "retire" when it's no longer convenient
to pay them. The staff at WECK can try to earn money doing
endorsements for hearing aids, Knee & Hip replacements,
Cemetery plots, etc...
If WECK can serve the elderly population and remain solvent, then
Corporate Radio should take notice. Boomers have huge population
numbers. If the big companies can't tap into that market,
they deserve to go bankrupt. AAA type formats that blend
the Woodstock era, Classic Alternative and new music could
certainly find an audience that's turned off by the typical barf bag
Classic Rock playlist.
Beatles SERGEANT PEPPER is still relevant today - 50 years
after its release 6/1/1967...
to pay them. The staff at WECK can try to earn money doing
endorsements for hearing aids, Knee & Hip replacements,
Cemetery plots, etc...
If WECK can serve the elderly population and remain solvent, then
Corporate Radio should take notice. Boomers have huge population
numbers. If the big companies can't tap into that market,
they deserve to go bankrupt. AAA type formats that blend
the Woodstock era, Classic Alternative and new music could
certainly find an audience that's turned off by the typical barf bag
Classic Rock playlist.
Beatles SERGEANT PEPPER is still relevant today - 50 years
after its release 6/1/1967...
Or, more realistically, high end car dealers, home services, travel, restaurants, and other things that empty nesters tend to spend more on if they have the savings and retirement plans to support them.
The categories you mention seldom advertise and are not what sustain older demo stations in other markets.
50 is hardly "elderly" today. "Elderly" is a vague term, but it would likely be defined as "over 75" or maybe even "over 80" today.
A third of the population is over 50 now. In Buffalo, it is even a bit higher.
"Corporate" radio is aware of this. However, the real issue is that there are fewer advertisers seeking this audience today.
The main issue is that the population is there, but the dollars are not.
Name one AAA startup in the last 20 years that has been successful. Even ones that started in the 90's, for the most part, have failed. Boomers don't have a monolithic liking of AAA or any other music genre.
Maybe, to some people. I'll take "The Shape of You" or "I'm The One" over any of the cuts on that album.
"The categories you mention seldom advertise and are not what sustain older demo stations in other markets."
Western New York is unique in this sense. It's almost out of sync with what plays in Palm Springs, LA, NY or even like-minded Kansas City, MO or Columbus, Ohio. For example, Catholic Cemeteries and laser surgery providers are consistent buyers of radio in WNY. I agree with the premise that local radio can sometimes better cater to listeners 55+ and 65+, a market that Mr. Ostrander knows well and has experience exploiting. But actuarial tables don't lie. Stations such as WHTT and 97 Rock provide product that "younger-older" demos (50+ baby boomers) want. For example, a few days ago I heard 97 Rock again play "Another Brick in the Wall" from an album that was released, IIRC, around 1979-80. As such, it's 37 years old. A person 21 years old in 1980 is now 58, but still a younger listener than WECK is likely to attract. WHTT and 97 Rock provide strong, almost insurmountable competition for stations that play standards and music from the 1955-1969 era. Again, I have no issues with WECK. It appears to be a fine station for what it does and what it offers. My 73 year old aunt listens regularly, although she has issues with "the new music the station plays," meaning, I suspect, songs from the 70s. Go figure, eh? Her music sweet spot is around 1956-66. To her ears and mindset, if it's not Elvis, the Supremes or early Beatles, it's "new" music. Years ago, she was a big fan of WHTT, but now, it too plays "too much new music." As you might guess, Star, Mix, Kiss and WYRK aren't even on her radar.
Western New York is unique in this sense. It's almost out of sync with what plays in Palm Springs, LA, NY or even like-minded Kansas City, MO or Columbus, Ohio. For example, Catholic Cemeteries and laser surgery providers are consistent buyers of radio in WNY. I agree with the premise that local radio can sometimes better cater to listeners 55+ and 65+, a market that Mr. Ostrander knows well and has experience exploiting. But actuarial tables don't lie. Stations such as WHTT and 97 Rock provide product that "younger-older" demos (50+ baby boomers) want. For example, a few days ago I heard 97 Rock again play "Another Brick in the Wall" from an album that was released, IIRC, around 1979-80. As such, it's 37 years old. A person 21 years old in 1980 is now 58, but still a younger listener than WECK is likely to attract. WHTT and 97 Rock provide strong, almost insurmountable competition for stations that play standards and music from the 1955-1969 era. Again, I have no issues with WECK. It appears to be a fine station for what it does and what it offers. My 73 year old aunt listens regularly, although she has issues with "the new music the station plays," meaning, I suspect, songs from the 70s. Go figure, eh? Her music sweet spot is around 1956-66. To her ears and mindset, if it's not Elvis, the Supremes or early Beatles, it's "new" music. Years ago, she was a big fan of WHTT, but now, it too plays "too much new music." As you might guess, Star, Mix, Kiss and WYRK aren't even on her radar.
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There's a niche market that Buddy & Co. can serve. WJYE is now Mix, abandoning the older demos it had (and not gaining much in return). Some of them went to WHTT, which already tried a similar "Mix" format and realized that it wasn't going decimate the Star/Kiss duplex. WHTT has still nudged itself largely out of the '60s and into the '80s (although still '70s-centric), leaving '50s, '60s, and whatever standards that WECK wants to mix in as a viable format for the 65+ audience - and those who just tune around to hear something different once in a while. Going more "full service" with news and personalities might actually impact WBEN more than it will the music stations in town. Does anybody else get the feeling that people are tired of hearing politics and conspiracy theories? I'm pretty sure that he's not paying his talent the kind of money that they could command "back in the day". If nothing else, it's an interesting experiment.
B
Buddy Shula
Guest
"The population is there, but the dollars are not"????? Seriously?? You folks really need to buy a station. The only comments that make sense is Rox. Eduardo, sorry, but your finger is in California, not Buffalo. I do not mean that with any disrespect, but you simply do not know the facts about what I know. The station is going to have a 4 share.....soon...... plus all advertisers are loving the affordability that a locally owned metro station can provide ..... You opinion means zero, as I see the numbers everyday. That is fact, not opinion. I know you did not mean to start a fight, but I am here to call you out, that your opinions are flat out wrong. And for this AAA shit acronym you keep talking about, that is wrong too. You need a good insider to set you straight.
If Shula and WECK are not Nielsen subscribers, then they can't
use the ratings anyway. WECK getting a 4 share is unrealistic,
but dream big Bud. Tell us what is the average age of
a WECK listener?
Enjoy your new station and best of luck, but get a grip.
It's 2017. The vast majority of the population has never
heard of WECK unless it's the sandwich...
use the ratings anyway. WECK getting a 4 share is unrealistic,
but dream big Bud. Tell us what is the average age of
a WECK listener?
Enjoy your new station and best of luck, but get a grip.
It's 2017. The vast majority of the population has never
heard of WECK unless it's the sandwich...
You are mistaking my comments as negative when they are, in fact, highly supportive.
My point is that there is less revenue for 55 and older everywhere and for higher overhead corporately owned stations going after it is less profitable than most other options. However, for the local owner-operator it makes sense to go where there is some revenue and where most others do not or can not (based on price) compete.
As I said, the population is there, but there are not enough dollars for the corporate clusters to make money pursuing it.
There are quite a few markets in the area where your concept would be welcome. The one I am most familiar with is Cleveland, where nothing similar exists on the radio despite several under-utilized AM stations. One side of my family has been in the local media business there going back to the 1800's. Another was involved in local radio starting around 1922. So I know the area very well. And in that environment the rapid decline of print opens significant budgets fo "mature adult" stations in that sort of market where the average age is above the national mean.
When I spoke of clients and the client base, I specifically mentioned general categories and said that, nationally some of the others mentioned in another post were not deep in potential. I truly don't think you can build a business model based on a Catholic cemetery or hip replacement surgery.
I stayed away from California comparisons as the revenue base for older leaning media tends to be jewelry, esthetic surgery, remodeling and home decor etc.
The "AAA" reference was to a post by tbolt, not yours. AAA is a broad and deep album rock format such as the one that failed in its recent incarnation by Emmis in NYC. Neither tbolt nor I were referring to your station in that context... my answer related to AAA not being successful in new format launches in the last several decades... plus it is an FM format.
Again, my point is that the is a void and the bigger guys either can't do it right or can't make money on it due to their cost structure.
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For local direct sales, ratings are relatively unimportant and even if used, not the primary driver for business.
In an underserved market segment, getting that kind of share is not impossible. There is very limited competition and lots of population.
It does not matter what the average age is in this case... the station is not selling to national agency accounts.
Mr. Shula, AAA stands for Adult Album Alternative.
It's a radio format in some other markets. Nobody here said WECK was
AAA. You have the Lawrence Welk crowd.
The Lake on 107.7 was similar in some ways to AAA.
Artists like R.E.M., Dave Matthews, Elvis Costello, Coldplay,
and others were played on the station. The current ALT format
is more pop oriented than album rock. The ratings are also much lower.
That reflects the Buffalo demographics and who uses Radio...
It's a radio format in some other markets. Nobody here said WECK was
AAA. You have the Lawrence Welk crowd.
The Lake on 107.7 was similar in some ways to AAA.
Artists like R.E.M., Dave Matthews, Elvis Costello, Coldplay,
and others were played on the station. The current ALT format
is more pop oriented than album rock. The ratings are also much lower.
That reflects the Buffalo demographics and who uses Radio...
B
Buddy Shula
Guest
My sincere apology DavidEduardo. I over reacted without understanding what you are saying. Your point is well taken, now that I read it thru. My bad. You obviously know your stuff... Tbolt on the other hand is just a jaded former radio person. That is obvious. Tbolt spends a gorgeous Saturday afternoon on the radio boards, yet he does not think radio is relevant. Tbolt, when you get a few nickels to rub together, you can buy what we call radio stations. When you buy those stations, you can subscribe to what we call Neilson ratings. When you get those Neilson ratings you'll find out that WECK even now, has over a 2 share 12 plus, and way better shares 50 plus. I just got a call from an agency the other day that said she was calling because the ratings she was looking at had WECK in the top 6 55 plus. Warren Buffet is a member of the "Lawrence Welk" club... the average age of the WECK listener is 68. Perhaps if you would have listened to people who knew something about the business, you would still be employed....instead, you are trolling radio boards, and showing that your a jealous guy (or girl). If you were proud about anything, you would post with your real name, like I do. It easy for you to criticize when you are wearing a mask. Just because radio did not work out well for you, does not mean that others are not flourishing. Sorry to be so harsh, but you really need to get off a board that includes radio professionals.
Well said.
For whatever reason tbolt gets off on tearing down people who still think radio is viable. Why? What does tbolt care what Buddy does? Clearly Buddy thinks what he plans will work or he wouldn't throw more money at WECK than tbolt will EVER make.
I simply don't understand the vitriol and negativity of tbolt. I believe Buddy may be right in surmising that he/she is a former radio employee who did not achieve anything significant in their career and is resentful of those of us who have been more successful.
Buddy's station represents local radio, local ownership and service to an under-served demo. Buddy has put his savings on the line for his project, too. Those are all things worthy of applause, so I say, "let's give it up for Buddy!"
Objective question: It's almost certain that Entercom, Townsquare and Cumulus have a few eyes and ears on WECK. Presuming the station steals a few shares from WBEN, WHTT or WYRK, what precludes the large corporations that own these stations from buying or using an existing translator, feeding it with one of their FM HD channels, and programming oldies or a standards-oldies hybrid to roadblock WECK? Could the corporate operators LMA WJJL or WXRL and program it to compete with WECK? From what I've read, large radio corporations will do just about anything to protect their franchises. iHeart (which does not operate in Buffalo) has signed agreements with religious operators that own translators in the commercial band, programming the translators to protect their larger stations from losing listeners to upstart competitors.
Rusty, I'm sure that the major operators in town will pay attention to Buddy, but I doubt that they're worried much about the niche market that he's pursuing. There's simply not enough money in the 65+ market for them. Radio is heading deep into "automated buying" that allows the folks who are used to buying Google ads to buy airtime with the click of a mouse button. Big advertisers will want much broader and younger audience.
IMO, WECK is more likely to nick those WBEN listeners who are looking for an escape from conspiracy theories and cloaking devices. 12+ numbers are the beauty contest. Nobody buys based on that. If WECK doesn't do much impact to 35-64 numbers, or even 45-64 numbers, it won't matter. More importantly, Buddy isn't going to sell numbers, and he's going to sell to businesses who can't afford major player spot prices. If he sells a paltry 10 minutes per hour, 10 hours a day, at $50.00 per spot, he'll bring in $5,000 per day. Let's say he gets that six days a week. That's $30K per week. Now, assuming that he has a bad month or two in the first quarter, that still over $1.3-million dollars per year. He can afford to pay his bills and make some money. If the spot rate is too high, he boosts the spot load a bit. BTW, he's not going to be paying his "legendary" air staff the kind of cash they commanded back in the day. These are guys in it because the love it. Some extra retirement dollars don't hurt. Their names will still gain the station some ears. It remains to be seen if the programming will keep those ears listening.
IMO, WECK is more likely to nick those WBEN listeners who are looking for an escape from conspiracy theories and cloaking devices. 12+ numbers are the beauty contest. Nobody buys based on that. If WECK doesn't do much impact to 35-64 numbers, or even 45-64 numbers, it won't matter. More importantly, Buddy isn't going to sell numbers, and he's going to sell to businesses who can't afford major player spot prices. If he sells a paltry 10 minutes per hour, 10 hours a day, at $50.00 per spot, he'll bring in $5,000 per day. Let's say he gets that six days a week. That's $30K per week. Now, assuming that he has a bad month or two in the first quarter, that still over $1.3-million dollars per year. He can afford to pay his bills and make some money. If the spot rate is too high, he boosts the spot load a bit. BTW, he's not going to be paying his "legendary" air staff the kind of cash they commanded back in the day. These are guys in it because the love it. Some extra retirement dollars don't hurt. Their names will still gain the station some ears. It remains to be seen if the programming will keep those ears listening.
B
Buddy Shula
Guest
Guys (except TBOLT) - your are getting warmer. The station will not compete with the major corporations. I never intended that. I am not thinking of the competition. The station will just serve the community to give a nice listening experience. If it is affordable to clients, that is my goal. If advertisers can get an ROI, that is my goal. if I can make an ok living (I hope), I will be happy. I am not in a position to compete with big corporations. All I want to think about is how I can make WECK a better station. If I do that, I am assuming decent things will happen. IT was my dream as a kid to buy a station, and that's what I did. Going back to the time I was 15 years old, and interning with incredible broadcast professions like JP, Taylor and Moore, Brian J Walker, Wayne Summers...they taught me way back when that this is a great, fun business. My dream was to always own a station in my hometown of Buffalo, so I did that. Entercom was so great that I would have stayed there til I retired in 15 years, but I could not pass up this opportunity. There will never be another major metro signal that will come up for sale that I can afford. So WECK was perfect. Now I am hope I can do some good for the community, and put a few bucks in my pocket as well. If not, it was still worth it to me.
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