Zion Hill, Woburn MA

[HHH]

That should read "FM128" for 103.3's current incarnation; there was an application (and CP?) to move to the Pru that has not been consummated and probably won't be.

And I am reminded that 94.5 began at the old St. James Street studios before moving to the old Hancock.

Here is an interesting photo from (it looks like) the early or mid-1950s, which shows the entrance to the WMEX studios at 70 Brookline Avenue (extreme right). But look down the street. Is that an FM stick on top of the WNAC Building? Backup maybe or an early main site?

http://wmexradio.com/wmex_history

Dig the Calso and Cities Service (forerunner of Citgo) signs!

 

[Eli Polonsky]

Yes, right you are. Senior moment. I meant the old Hancock. However, I don't think WBCN came along until after WHDH-FM left the site.

I began listening to WBCN when it went album rock in 1968, and for a short time around 1968-'69 WHDH-FM was also running album rock, although all automated. If I remember correctly, they were both simultaneously transmitting from the old Hancock at that time.

Where would WBCN have transmitted from before the old Hancock? I can't find an account of an earlier site for them.

 

[4CX1000A]

95.3: Harvard campus (?) > Holyoke Center > 1 Financial Center

95.3 was originally on the roof of Dudley Hall (a.k.a. 16 Dunster Street), which was razed to make room for Holyoke Center in the early 1960's. The antenna was moved to the roof of the new building, which is now (since the move to One Financial center in 1995) WHRB's auxiliary site.

WHRB' studios, which had been in Dudley, went to Claverly Hall for a couple years and then to the basement of Sanders Theater (a.k.a. 45 Quincy Street), where they lasted until 1994. They are now in the basement of Pennypacker Hall (a.k.a. 389 Harvard Street).

95.3 is not WHRB's original dial position; it signed on in 1957 at 107.1, and moved to 95.3 when 107.1 was found to be too close to 106.7, or so I'm told.

 

[HHH]

Yes, right you are. Senior moment. I meant the old Hancock. However, I don't think WBCN came along until after WHDH-FM left the site.

I began listening to WBCN when it went album rock in 1968, and for a short time around 1968-'69 WHDH-FM was also running album rock, although all automated. If I remember correctly, they were both simultaneously transmitting from the old Hancock at that time.

Where would WBCN have transmitted from before the old Hancock? I can't find an account of an earlier site for them.

No, WHDH-FM was on the channel 5 tower when they did the automated album rock format. I think they moved from the old Hancock when (or shortly after) the Channel 5 tower was built, if only to save on the rent. I believe their moving made space for WBCN, which signed on around the same time as the WHDH-FM move, I believe.

They also used to simulcast the Red Sox games on WHDH-FM from WHDH 850 AM at that time. They dropped to mono when the games were on. I am told they did that FM simulcast so that some Red Sox network stations within range could pick up WHDH-FM and relay the broadcast. I am sure that's how Worcester, The Cape, Providence, Manchester NH, etc, got the feed. Mono was smart. Kicked it out a bit better.

 

[HHH]

Today, Mt. Zion would not be suitable for broadcast.

Why? It has been suggested that if WGBH were willing to downgrade 99.5 to a B1 in order to better cover points south of Boston, Zion Hill might be an acceptable location--although it does not quite meet spacing minimums to WPLM-FM. OTOH, I have heard that there are other hills between Woburn and downtown Boston that would create shadowing downtown for a station at that site.

Yes, that would seem to make sense for 99.5. It would certainly improved their signal into the city, and the Blue Hills to the south might make the case to allow the short space to WPLM. The Zion Hill site would probably not be any worse to the southern suburbs than it is now from way up in Andover, and moving closer to Boston would be a plus for every other part of the metro, including downtown near Symphony Hall (where, ironically, the current 99.5 signal is quite poor). I remember listening to WXHR quite clearly in Cambridge back in the 60s.

 

[johnster]

You do know you can get CRB on 89.7HD2 right? and GBH on 99.5's HD2.

Today, Mt. Zion would not be suitable for broadcast.

Why? It has been suggested that if WGBH were willing to downgrade 99.5 to a B1 in order to better cover points south of Boston, Zion Hill might be an acceptable location--although it does not quite meet spacing minimums to WPLM-FM. OTOH, I have heard that there are other hills between Woburn and downtown Boston that would create shadowing downtown for a station at that site.

Yes, that would seem to make sense for 99.5. It would certainly improved their signal into the city, and the Blue Hills to the south might make the case to allow the short space to WPLM. The Zion Hill site would probably not be any worse to the southern suburbs than it is now from way up in Andover, and moving closer to Boston would be a plus for every other part of the metro, including downtown near Symphony Hall (where, ironically, the current 99.5 signal is quite poor). I remember listening to WXHR quite clearly in Cambridge back in the 60s.

 

[necrat]

98.5: Malden > Ch. 7 tower, Newton > FM128

Malden > Ch. 7 Tower, Newton> Candelabra (For a very short time)> FM128

The Candelabra was home to 92.9, 96.9, 98.5 and 105.7 at one point in time or another.

96.9 12.5kW @ 308m
105.7 14kW @ 291m
92.9 17kW @ 261m
98.5 16kW @ 259m

WBOS also had an aux at 290m which I recently featured on my website, on the Candelabra.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

You do know you can get CRB on 89.7HD2 right? and GBH on 99.5's HD2.

Right on the first, but not the second. 99.5 has never run their HD2 as of yet.

 

[HHH]

Today, Mt. Zion would not be suitable for broadcast.

Why? It has been suggested that if WGBH were willing to downgrade 99.5 to a B1 in order to better cover points south of Boston, Zion Hill might be an acceptable location--although it does not quite meet spacing minimums to WPLM-FM. OTOH, I have heard that there are other hills between Woburn and downtown Boston that would create shadowing downtown for a station at that site.

Yes, that would seem to make sense for 99.5. It would certainly improved their signal into the city, and the Blue Hills to the south might make the case to allow the short space to WPLM. The Zion Hill site would probably not be any worse to the southern suburbs than it is now from way up in Andover, and moving closer to Boston would be a plus for every other part of the metro, including downtown near Symphony Hall (where, ironically, the current 99.5 signal is quite poor). I remember listening to WXHR quite clearly in Cambridge back in the 60s.

You know what? Doesn't Harvard own the old WEEI-FM tower in Malden? Could 99.5 move there (Harvard and WGBH are in bed with each other, right?). I know that location would be technically too close to WPLM, but--as with Zion Hill--wouldn't the Blue Hills cut down the radiation toward Plymouth? The present 99.5 signal is so crummy in so many cutural areas of the city (Symphony Hall, Berklee School, etc) and either Zion Hill or the Malden site should be better.

 

[carmen]

99.5 signal is so crummy in so many cutural areas of the city

fairly weak at the southern fringes of the city blocked by higher terrain like popes hill and beyond. i dont think theres any WFMs on that giant tower near Granite Links? unless 91.9 is there - have a feeling theyre on forbes based on trying this KML

 

[Eli Polonsky]

fairly weak at the southern fringes of the city blocked by higher terrain like popes hill and beyond. i dont think theres any WFMs on that giant tower near Granite Links? unless 91.9 is there - have a feeling theyre on forbes based on trying this KML

91.9 WUMB has a construction permit to move to the Granite Links tower. They hope to have that accomplished within the next month or so.

There's no way that 99.5 could move there, much too close to 99.1 in Plymouth, maybe even a concern for 99.9 on the Cape from there.

 

[WNTIRadio]

It'll be interesting to hear the signal from the MUCH higher perch on the tall tower. On paper, the coverage is far superior. How the lower power gets in to downtown remains to be seen. You never really know until you fire up the transmitter.

No way WCRB is going to move. Doesn't make sense to attempt to downgrade to a directional pattern and at least a class of station, if not two. Haven't run the numbers on it, but it would most likely have to go down to a class A>

 

[LA_Guy]

Yes, right you are. Senior moment. I meant the old Hancock. However, I don't think WBCN came along until after WHDH-FM left the site.

I began listening to WBCN when it went album rock in 1968, and for a short time around 1968-'69 WHDH-FM was also running album rock, although all automated. If I remember correctly, they were both simultaneously transmitting from the old Hancock at that time.

Where would WBCN have transmitted from before the old Hancock? I can't find an account of an earlier site for them.

WBCN started out on the old Hancock. Before that, 104.1 was WILD-FM, Medford, MA. The main studio was the old WILD transmitter building (manned at the time), and the FM antenna remained atop the WILD tower until it was knocked down. WILD turned in the FM license when non directional AM stations were allowed to be remote controlled, eliminating the need for transmitter techs.

 

[aaronread]

This is all wild speculation, but wouldn't the 93.7 tower in Peabody/Saugus be a much better location for a hypothetical 99.5 than Zion Hill?

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

This is all wild speculation, but wouldn't the 93.7 tower in Peabody/Saugus be a much better location for a hypothetical 99.5 than Zion Hill?

If it were technically possible for 99.5 to be moved to the 93.7 tower (without a downgrade to B1)....I'm sure WGBH would have already done it.

As for downgrading 99.5 to B1....I don't think WGBH would spend as much as ONE PENNY to do something that would diminish the value of its investment....not to mention the money already spent for such things as taking over the Bryant College station in Rhode Island on 88.7.

 

[Eli Polonsky]

... Before that, 104.1 was WILD-FM, Medford, MA. The main studio was the old WILD transmitter building (manned at the time), and the FM antenna remained atop the WILD tower until it was knocked down. WILD turned in the FM license when non directional AM stations were allowed to be remote controlled, eliminating the need for transmitter techs.

Historical accounts I've read say that the call letters of both 1090 and 104.1 were WBMS back then, pre-WILD.

1090 WBMS became WILD in 1957, and 104.1, which had been shut off in Medford by WBMS some years earlier and was dark, returned to the air in 1958 from the old Hancock as WBCN, part of the "Concert Network" group.

 

[aaronread]

As for downgrading 99.5 to B1....I don't think WGBH would spend as much as ONE PENNY to do something that would diminish the value of its investment....not to mention the money already spent for such things as taking over the Bryant College station in Rhode Island on 88.7.

Oh, I don't know about a diminishment. The devil's always in the details and I don't have access to the software I'd need to figure out those details...but an armchair analysis strikes me that a B1 from the Peabody/Saugus (93.7) tower would be a lot more valuable than a full B from way up in Lowell. You'd get better reach into Boston and probably better "points south" coverage, too. WJMF certainly isn't helping much there...it's too small and too far south.

Of course, that assumes you could squeeze a full B1 (or equivalent) at the 93.7 tower. My hunch is you can't...presumably because of WPLM...otherwise someone would've done it already. And yes, going below a B1 is not worth it. A Class A from the 93.7 tower would almost certainly be a big step down for WCRB...once you get below 10kW or so, building penetration, at a distance, starts getting dicey. And going below 1kW is where things start getting dicey for in-car listening, too...with HAAT de-rating, I'm not sure how far about 1kW a WCRB at the 93.7 would be, but I'll bet it's not much.

 

[KC9AIC]

Oh, I don't know about a diminishment. The devil's always in the details and I don't have access to the software I'd need to figure out those details...but an armchair analysis strikes me that a B1 from the Peabody/Saugus (93.7) tower would be a lot more valuable than a full B from way up in Lowell. You'd get better reach into Boston and probably better "points south" coverage, too. WJMF certainly isn't helping much there...it's too small and too far south.

Of course, that assumes you could squeeze a full B1 (or equivalent) at the 93.7 tower. My hunch is you can't...presumably because of WPLM...otherwise someone would've done it already. And yes, going below a B1 is not worth it. A Class A from the 93.7 tower would almost certainly be a big step down for WCRB...once you get below 10kW or so, building penetration, at a distance, starts getting dicey. And going below 1kW is where things start getting dicey for in-car listening, too...with HAAT de-rating, I'm not sure how far about 1kW a WCRB at the 93.7 would be, but I'll bet it's not much.

The distance between the WPLM and WEEI towers is almost exactly 67 km. With non-reserved band stations (like WCRB), there are two possible spacing schemes: 47 CFR Section 73.207 and Section 73.215(e). Under 207 rules, the minimum spacing between 2nd adjacent class B to class A stations is 69 km, so WCRB couldn't downgrade enough to make the site work. If they requested 215 processing, the B to B distance is 68 km, so that's not possible. The B1 to B distance is only 65 km, so that is a possibility, if they can adequately protect WPLM's contours (which would require a directional antenna). Presuming that WCRB was diplexed into WEEI's auxiliary antenna at 127 meters above ground and 164 meters above average terrain, a B1 would be dialed back to 9.1 kilowatts, and limited to just over 4 kilowatts in the direction of WPLM). Unfortunately, a null toward WPLM would also affect coverage in downtown Boston, and suburbs like Revere, Chelsea

 

[KC9AIC]

Oh, I don't know about a diminishment. The devil's always in the details and I don't have access to the software I'd need to figure out those details...but an armchair analysis strikes me that a B1 from the Peabody/Saugus (93.7) tower would be a lot more valuable than a full B from way up in Lowell. You'd get better reach into Boston and probably better "points south" coverage, too. WJMF certainly isn't helping much there...it's too small and too far south.

Of course, that assumes you could squeeze a full B1 (or equivalent) at the 93.7 tower. My hunch is you can't...presumably because of WPLM...otherwise someone would've done it already. And yes, going below a B1 is not worth it. A Class A from the 93.7 tower would almost certainly be a big step down for WCRB...once you get below 10kW or so, building penetration, at a distance, starts getting dicey. And going below 1kW is where things start getting dicey for in-car listening, too...with HAAT de-rating, I'm not sure how far about 1kW a WCRB at the 93.7 would be, but I'll bet it's not much.

I do have the software to do this stuff, so I'll give a shot at it. The distance between the WPLM and WEEI towers is almost exactly 67 km. With non-reserved band stations (like WCRB), there are two possible spacing schemes: 47 CFR Section 73.207 and Section 73.215(e). Under 207 rules, the minimum spacing between 2nd adjacent class B to class A stations is 69 km, so WCRB couldn't downgrade enough to make the site work. If they requested 215 processing, the B to B distance is 68 km, so that's not possible. The B1 to B distance is only 65 km, so that is a possibility, if they can adequately protect WPLM's contours (which would require a directional antenna). Presuming that WCRB was diplexed into WEEI's auxiliary antenna at 127 meters above ground and 164 meters above average terrain, a B1 would be dialed back to 9.1 kilowatts, and limited to just over 4 kilowatts in the direction of WPLM). Unfortunately, a null toward WPLM would also affect coverage in downtown Boston, and places like Revere, Chelsea, and Quincy. If coverage wouldn't be great there, then why move? Besides all this, there is also the issue of city of license coverage. It's doubtful that WCRB could cover Lowell well enough from Peabody. They can't do so by F-curves (contours), and my Longley-Rice maps show dBu values in the 40s and 50s, far short of the 70 dBu requirement.

That being said, there probably are sites that would work that are closer to Boston. Perhaps 50 kilowatts on the top of one of the WRKO towers?

 

[WNTIRadio]

The distance between the WPLM and WEEI towers is almost exactly 67 km. With non-reserved band stations (like WCRB), there are two possible spacing schemes: 47 CFR Section 73.207 and Section 73.215(e). Under 207 rules, the minimum spacing between 2nd adjacent class B to class A stations is 69 km, so WCRB couldn't downgrade enough to make the site work. If they requested 215 processing, the B to B distance is 68 km, so that's not possible. The B1 to B distance is only 65 km, so that is a possibility, if they can adequately protect WPLM's contours (which would require a directional antenna). Presuming that WCRB was diplexed into WEEI's auxiliary antenna at 127 meters above ground and 164 meters above average terrain, a B1 would be dialed back to 9.1 kilowatts, and limited to just over 4 kilowatts in the direction of WPLM). Unfortunately, a null toward WPLM would also affect coverage in downtown Boston, and suburbs like Revere, Chelsea

They can't diplex into WEEI's AUX or main antenna if they went DA. That would require an entire separate antenna.

Revere and Chelsea aren't listening to WCRB... have you been there? But the people traveling in cars would be listening. And putting the null towards the city isn't ever a good idea. Now you have what amounts to a slightly roided-out class A, 12 miles from Boston.

I'll take the full B up in Andover over that any day.