Zzz: Legal IDs

[SeattleObserver]

I was in my car a lot today so I heard some legal IDs.

Here's one thing I've noted. Unless KIRO-FM's iBiquity feed is off, they are still not making a legal ID. They are so close "KIRO-Seattle KIRO FM Tacoma (Seattle)" But they need "KIRO HD-1 Tacoma" right?

The Wolf's sounds dropped into the jingle package, which was interesting. Did they not have the calls when the package was first sung?

I always think KNBQ's is funny "Centralia to Seattle"

I'm a sucker for the Fisher sounder, even though it really has little to do with KPLZ's ID.

 

[swhyde1980]

I don't think HD radio stations ever needed a separate ID, other than announcing the FM ID (Someone correct me if i'm wrong). So regardless of if their HD feed was on or off, I don't think they need to announce it.

KNBQ's is still legal, despite the 'to Seattle' drop-in. As long as Centralia is right after KNBQ, the FCC won't have to do their 'fine business'.

Fisher stations are usually consistant with their station IDs or announcements all around the northwest (and their 2 properties in California). Station ID, then the Fisher Communications jingle. Even all their TV stations (KOMO, KATU, KVAL/KPIC/KCBY, KIMA/KEPR, KLEW, KBCI, KIDK, KBAK/KBFX) have the manditory Fisher Communications drop-in after all newscasts.

Heck....stations can actually do their ID in morse code, and it would be still be OK and legal.

 

[w9wi]

I don't think HD radio stations ever needed a separate ID, other than announcing the FM ID (Someone correct me if i'm wrong). So regardless of if their HD feed was on or off, I don't think they need to announce it.

A few months ago, the FCC did rule that HD stations are required to identify themselves as such. They really weren't very specific about what you're required to announce but the "KIRO HD-1 Tacoma" model SeattleObserver cited seems pretty popular.

Heck....stations can actually do their ID in morse code, and it would be still be OK and legal.

The rule doesn't specifically state you have to *say* your call letters, but I'd sure be reluctant to presume I'd get away with IDing in Morse. Unless you're a translator, in which case Morse IDs are specifically provided for.

 

[rw]

The Wolf's sounds dropped into the jingle package, which was interesting. Did they not have the calls when the package was first sung?

Yes, we had the KKWF calls when all the different jingle packages were sung. However, "KKWF" doesn't mean anything to the listeners, so we ran it as a sweeper at the top hour for the first couple of years. We then built the hour specific ID with the chime and jingle talk up ramp about a year ago.

If you're interested, a lot about the KKWF jingles can be found here: http://www.iqbeatsblog.com/?s=kkwf

 

[bossbill]

I think KXRY started it with "KRXY... Shelton to Seattle" or something like that. We copied them. We use "KANY... Ocean Shores to Olympia".

And one of our stations sings the ID "Sunny 102.1 KSWW, Montesano-Aberdeen-Hoquiam". That's a mouthful but only 7 seconds.

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Actually one I thought that was really cute was 107.5 licensed to Banks, OR. Suburb (sorta) of Portland. I think it went "KBBT banks on Portland for the greatest beats" Hey, it's legal!

I created one years ago where we were trying to bury our COL, so we threw out 9 cities/ towns in the mix, and said our calls 3 times, all with various voices. In the middle of that mess was out actual legal calls and COL as prescribed by your federal government.

Then we changed the calls and format a few weeks later. DOH!

 

[TVradioguru]

Actually one I thought that was really cute was 107.5 licensed to Banks, OR. Suburb (sorta) of Portland. I think it went "KBBT banks on Portland for the greatest beats" Hey, it's legal!

I created one years ago where we were trying to bury our COL, so we threw out 9 cities/ towns in the mix, and said our calls 3 times, all with various voices. In the middle of that mess was out actual legal calls and COL as prescribed by your federal government.

Then we changed the calls and format a few weeks later. DOH!

Your statement that an ID such as "KBBT Banks on Portland for the greatest beats" is legal, is incorrect, The call letters must be followed by the city of license. In this case, the use of "on" between KBBT and Banks would not be a legal.

Frankly I'm not even sure why this whole issue is even in debate. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to go on line and look up the official rule:


§ 73.1201 Station identification.

(a) When regularly required. Broadcast station identification announcements shall be made:

(1) At the beginning and ending of each time of operation, and

(2) Hourly, as close to the hour as feasible, at a natural break in program offerings. Television and Class A television broadcast stations may make these announcements visually or aurally.

(b) Content. (1) Official station identification shall consist of the station's call letters immediately followed by the community or communities specified in its license as the station's location; Provided, That the name of the licensee, the station's frequency, the station's channel number, as stated on the station's license, and/or the station's network affiliation may be inserted between the call letters and station location. DTV stations, or DAB Stations, choosing to include the station's channel number in the station identification must use the station's major channel number and may distinguish multicast program streams. For example, a DTV station with major channel number 26 may use 26.1 to identify an HDTV program service and 26.2 to identify an SDTV program service. A DTV station that is devoting one of its multicast streams to transmit the programming of another television licensee must identify itself and may also identify the licensee that it is transmitting. If a DTV station in this situation chooses to identify the station that is the source of the programming it is transmitting, it must use the following format: Station WYYY–DT, community of license (call sign and community of license of the station whose multicast stream is transmitting the programming), bringing you WXXX, community of license (call sign and community of license of the licensee providing the programming). The transmitting station may insert between its call letters and its community of license the following information: the frequency of the transmitting station, the channel number of the transmitting station, the name of the licensee of the transmitting station and the licensee providing the programming, and/or the name of the network of either station. Where a multicast station is carrying the programming of another station and is identifying that station as the source of the programming, using the format described above, the identification may not include the frequency or channel number of the program source. A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast. No other insertion between the station's call letters and the community or communities specified in its license is permissible.

(2) A station may include in its official station identification the name of any additional community or communities, but the community to which the station is licensed must be named first.

 

[SeattleRadioPro]

Actually one I thought that was really cute was 107.5 licensed to Banks, OR. Suburb (sorta) of Portland. I think it went "KBBT banks on Portland for the greatest beats" Hey, it's legal!

Your statement that an ID such as "KBBT Banks on Portland for the greatest beats" is legal, is incorrect, The call letters must be followed by the city of license. In this case, the use of "on" between KBBT and Banks would not be a legal.

Frankly I'm not even sure why this whole issue is even in debate. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to go on line and look up the official rule:

And it looks like you can't read. The COL follows the calls - it was Banks, OR, NOT Portland.

But thanks again for trying to "school" us.

 

[TVradioguru]

Actually one I thought that was really cute was 107.5 licensed to Banks, OR. Suburb (sorta) of Portland. I think it went "KBBT banks on Portland for the greatest beats" Hey, it's legal!

Your statement that an ID such as "KBBT Banks on Portland for the greatest beats" is legal, is incorrect, The call letters must be followed by the city of license. In this case, the use of "on" between KBBT and Banks would not be a legal.

Frankly I'm not even sure why this whole issue is even in debate. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to go on line and look up the official rule:

And it looks like you can't read. The COL follows the calls - it was Banks, OR, NOT Portland.

But thanks again for trying to "school" us.

And thank you for the sarcasm as usual.. Another point being that the legal ID rules, (among others), are spelled out on-line, and to the comment about burying the COL and call in the middle of a bunch of communities is also not legal. One of the original questions in the thread was regarding legal ID's of IBOC channels. I believe that is also addressed in the rules.

 

[w9wi]

...and to the comment about burying the COL and call in the middle of a bunch of communities is also not legal.

Why not?

The rule says "...call letters immediately followed by the community...". There's nothing limiting what else you can say around the ID. As long as at some point, your call letters are immediately followed by the right city, you're fine.

(disclaimer: I'm an engineer, not a communications lawyer -- but I sure don't see where a lawyer is necessary to interpret 73.1201.)

 

[rw]

Finding clever ways to make the legal ID sound like something it's not is one of my favorite things.

I always LOVED WGTZ in Eaton, Ohio. Their ID for years was "WGTZ, Eaton/Dayton and Springfield ALIVE!"

For more tasty TOH ID goodness, check out http://www.tophour.com/

 

[Bongwater]

In the late '90s, KHTQ (which had just flipped to rock) had a unique way of ID burial "ROCK 94 1/2!...(then "KHTQ Hayden" barely audible under LOUD stinger)...SPOKANE!"

So you only really heard "ROCK 94 1/2.....SPOKANE!"

Pirate Radio KQLZ in Los Angeles had another twist: They tacked it at the ending of a PSA "For more information, call KQLZ Los Angeles!"

But since originating COLs have become so irrelevant now (not like KRWM serves Bremerton proper anymore - hell, I get more multipath fuzz and static cling listening to this "Bremerton" station IN Bremerton than I do anywhere else in the greater Puget Sound area!), I think they should do away with originating COLs for stations that physically move away from originating COLs. If you're a Seattle station, you're a Seattle station. If you're a Bremerton station, you're a Bremerton station......

 

[TVradioguru]

...and to the comment about burying the COL and call in the middle of a bunch of communities is also not legal.

Why not?

The rule says "...call letters immediately followed by the community...". There's nothing limiting what else you can say around the ID. As long as at some point, your call letters are immediately followed by the right city, you're fine.

(disclaimer: I'm an engineer, not a communications lawyer -- but I sure don't see where a lawyer is necessary to interpret 73.1201.)

Please refer to sentence (2) past Section b in 73.1201. It says:
"(2) A station may include in its official station identification the name of any additional community or communities, but the community to which the station is licensed must be named first."

 

[Bongwater]

...and to the comment about burying the COL and call in the middle of a bunch of communities is also not legal.

Why not?

The rule says "...call letters immediately followed by the community...". There's nothing limiting what else you can say around the ID. As long as at some point, your call letters are immediately followed by the right city, you're fine.

(disclaimer: I'm an engineer, not a communications lawyer -- but I sure don't see where a lawyer is necessary to interpret 73.1201.)

Please refer to sentence (2) past Section b in 73.1201. It says:
"(2) A station may include in its official station identification the name of any additional community or communities, but the community to which the station is licensed must be named first."

Look closer....he JUST mentioned that in his post.

"As long as at some point, your call letters are immediately followed by the right city, you're fine. "

 

[TVradioguru]

If you "bury" the call letters and city of license among other cities or communities, then the COL must come first.

 

[scottcleveland]

In the late '90s, KHTQ (which had just flipped to rock) had a unique way of ID burial "ROCK 94 1/2!...(then "KHTQ Hayden" barely audible under LOUD stinger)...SPOKANE!"

So you only really heard "ROCK 94 1/2.....SPOKANE!"

CHRs did that a lot, all trying to emulate Z-100 in New York. (Or, as they buried the ID between spots in the :51 stopset, "whtznewarknewyorkcity". In 1988, I worked at a station at which the GM wouldn't let the jocks say the city of license, because he said "it sounded wimpy." Therefore, we (you guessed it) buried "wkynsaintmarys" between spots in the :51 stopset. Or, actually, is was (LOUD SWOOSHwkynsaintmarysLOUD SWOOSH)

Scott Cleveland
Morning Maniac & Production Dude
WXRL/Buffalo
only 2608 miles from Sea-Tac!

 

[bossbill]

CALL LETTERS IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY CITY OF LICENSE. The part about the COL having to be first refers to the fact that the COL must follow the calls. It says nothing about whether there is verbage before and after that. It doesn't mean that the calls and the COL must be in front of something else.

One of the earliest ones I remember was KISN, Vancouver, WA, with studios in Portland. It was something like "from the KISN Vancouver Weather Center".

The part really abused is the requirement that the calls/COL be as near as practicable to the top of the hour, between program offerings. Apparently this means to many that it can happen at :50 during a commercial stop set, even though there are songs that end closer to the top of the hour.

City of License is a non-issue anymore anyway. The only reason for a City of License is that the Commission clings to it in the allocation process.

Who would have thought that Covington, Banks, Oakville, or Enumclaw was without local radio service and needed same? There are numerous towns with only a few hundred or less residents with an FM station.

 

[w9wi]

If you "bury" the call letters and city of license among other cities or communities, then the COL must come first.

Exactly.

"This station is KRWM Bremerton, the Puget Sound's best music"

Of course, perfectly legal - call letters immediately followed by city of license. "This station is" and "the Puget Sound's best music" aren't legal components of an ID, but it doesn't matter, because they're read before and after the ID.

"Everett KRWM Tacoma KRWM Bremerton KRWM Seattle KRWM Edmonds KRWM"

Perfectly legal, because "KRWM" is immediately followed by "Bremerton". Same as above. "Everett KRWM Tacoma" isn't a legal component of KRWM's ID, but it doesn't matter, because it's read before the actual ID.

"KRWM Seattle-Tacoma-Bremerton"

Not legal, because "Bremerton" doesn't immediately follow "KRWM".

 

[IndigoCoyote]

Thanks, W9WI.


"Everett KRWM Tacoma KRWM Bremerton KRWM Seattle KRWM Edmonds KRWM"

This is exactly the trick I was referring to in my post earlier. Except we snuck in I think 3 calls and 9 "locations" (if you count Walla Walla as one ) Lots of flanging and echoi, but we made very sure the actual calls ac COL were clear.

Guru- I enjoy your posts; you just read my post backwards.

Scott Cleveland- good to hear from you! The worst one I remember was on an active rock rimshotter here in the Puget Sound area, KFNK Eatonville. I don't blame them for trying to bury the COL on that one- but for a while you could just barelyhear the COL under all the garbage. I think an example of that one may be heard on Fybush's website.

I always thought that the Forks, WA stations would be great for creative IDs, but unfortunately they are placeholder stations... KBDB Forks over the whole NW. KBDB Forks you out of your hard earned pay. Etc.

Any COL that can be construed as a verb will work, I suppose.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

This whole thing is another huge example of regulation outliving its usefulness. The whole point of a legal ID is to identify the station and COL. So if broadcasters work around it to hide embarrassement of owning a license in a small community that the BROADCASTER actually moved into a major market as an end-around in the first place ... and the FCC allows the broadcaster to produce an ID in which you can't actually figure out what the real city of license is (note example above of KRWM above using several cities...all legal), then why even bother having the reg. for an ID in the first place? Someone listening for the sole purpose of identifying the station would not be able to discern which is the actual city of license from that presentation.

Pretty sure Canada dropped that regulation many years ago for that very reason -- about the time most stations were identifying with "nicknames" instead of calls.

Much easier when stations were actually PROUD of the TOH ID and produced big stagers to drive it home. Whole reason that Top of Hour web site exists is to showcase those cool stagers stations used to do. Now the only time I hear those things is to drive home a false presentation .... KLSY used to do it to have a big jingle sing of KLSY/Seattle, after burying the legit TOH in the preceding stopset.