Format change coming in Greenville

[carolinaradio]

http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlines/netgnomes/84932/praise-heading-for-greenville/

Looks like Urban Gospel is coming to 98.5. It's a shame something different didn't get more of a chance.

 

[freqdev]

pretty smart on summits behalf. wjmz gets shares in the 20s on sundays why not try to tap into that audience all the time on a local level summit doing rock was as smart as clear channel doing gospel

 

[SaltyDog]

Getting an audience will be easier than converting those shares into advertising dollars... or in CEO-speak "monetizing it".

 

[awp69]

Unfortunately, I had a heads up on this about a month ago. I had hoped it wouldn't happen, but looks like it is. This really angers me. Yes, I am a huge fan of X98.5, but my issue is that 98.5 is easily the worst of the signals run by the commercial companies in this market. It has suffered static issues in the morning drive on an ongoing basis. There was just no way IMO the station could have succeeded. People that compare the numbers it was getting (1.2 in the most recent book) to Chuck were even being unfair since 97.7 does not have even close to the same signal problems. Frankly, I don't see any format succeeding on 98.5. I hope Summit eats crow in a year or so when Urban Gospel doesn't get any better numbers. And I'll be happy to eat crow if it does better (provided they don't increase the signal strength which should have been done under X's watch). When it officially goes, it'll be a sad day for fans of newer rock in the Upstate. The Planet is abysmal and this gave us an alternative. Just for my own curiousity, I would have loved to see how X performed against The Planet on a full-strength signal. My source said even on 98.5, which they themselves admitted was horrible, the station routinely placed in the top 5 in the 24-34 age group. I know that's not the money demo, but it shows that there is interest in the format. And if there was greater penetration, maybe it would have done better overall as well.

 

[awp69]

Just chatted with my source inside Summit and, yeah, X sounds like it will be gone by the end of the month. What's sad is that a lot of forum members thought Summit buying the stations may be a good thing. It turns out that it was Cox that was giving X full-support. It was Summit that didn't even like it - regardless of ratings. I've been told they didn't even really know what the format was.

Yikes. Well, another loss for Greenville in terms of music diversity. Time to break out the iPod and stream from outside the area for music. Just nothing here for me. Meanwhile, a very adult leaning alternative station (some have called it Alternative with a Hot AC lean) is doing GREAT in Atlanta. So I don't think it's the South that can't support the format. Greenville has a high percentage of transplants like Atlanta. I won't continue to rant. I just think X needed a better outlet. And, hell, anything is better than The Planet.

 

[upstate29651]

Yup. As I predicted, Summit's coming in & cleaning house. If X was all that & a bag of chips, it would remain on the air. But alas, the confusing format didn't fit the bill & is going bye bye. Long live REAL rock, not the watered down HotACwuss "rock" 98.5 was playing.

G

 

[awp69]

Yup. As I predicted, Summit's coming in & cleaning house. If X was all that & a bag of chips, it would remain on the air. But alas, the confusing format didn't fit the bill & is going bye bye. Long live REAL rock, not the watered down HotACwuss "rock" 98.5 was playing.

G

And that's why Radio 105.7 is doing very well in Atlanta with an even MORE "Hot AC" leaning alternative. If you listen to the vast majority of stations that call themselves "alternative" and not a alt/active hybrid, X was just in the middle of the spectrum.

I don't think it was whether X was "all that & a bag of chips" as to why it's being killed. It's because - and this is coming directly from a fairly high position inside Summit Greenville - of the fact that Summit is very, very Urban oriented and this was likely the plan all along. The fact that 98.5 is also the weakest commercial signal in the area didn't help.

So take a gander at the Alternative charts and the stations that are doing VERY well in other markets - like Atlanta's Radio 105.7 and Philadelphia's Radio 104.5. Don't want to get into this argument again but Alternative never did and never will = pure Rock. If you think it does, then you don't know Alternative stations going all the way back to the mid-late '80s that played very little guitar based rock.

 

[carolinaradio]

The folks running Summit are based in Birmingham, a market Cox had extensive experience operating a number of successful, long time Urban stations. Summit is starting to make changes in a number of markets. I'd think that they are wanting to expand their Urban programming in as many markets as they can since that format seems to be a specialty for them. They're going to blow up the AAA in Richmond also.

Even if 98.5 doesn't get good ratings as Urban Gospel, they can sell it with Jamz (added value), and help contribute to their Urban monopoly. I don't think the ratings will be a very good indication if gospel does what they're wanting it to. Remember, the guy running Entercom Greenville now worked for Cox Greenville for years and probably knows some valuable behind the scenes stuff, so it could also be a pre-emptive move to be on the safe side. 98.5 is an awful signal, especially in the summer.

"Real rock" isn't exactly a ratings smash in the majority of markets around here. Speaking of rock, I wonder how 96.7 is doing around a year in. They've had some OK numbers and don't sound half bad for classic rock.

 

[awp69]

Speaking of rock, I wonder how 96.7 is doing around a year in. They've had some OK numbers and don't sound half bad for classic rock.

The last ratings trend (Summer 1) had 96.7 at a .9 share. X had the same, but also had that in the Spring trends which ended up being 1.2 in the full book so they were skewed upward. Can't remember what 96.7 had in the Spring trends to know whether it also went up in the full book. The second set of Summer trends are due out tomorrow.

 

[giovani]

Espionage at Summit

X was doomed when Summit took over, even though the station sounded great the signal was weak and needed all the support possible to make it work but was just abandoned. I think the Gospel thing is a ploy but the biggest problem is HOT! Not hard to get info on whats going on there, almost everyone who works on that station is complaining on the direction its going? Pretty bad when the whole staff is making fun of their own station and running over to Entercom and telling them every move they make. Why did they mess with that station..they had it going great and now it sounds like they have a rookie programming it. Steve has his spys over at Summit and knows every move they make. Shame.

 

[awp69]

^^ Yep. That's pretty much the story I'm hearing as well as far as local staff hating its' own station (Hot). As much as people say bad things about Cox, I think Summit was not a good thing for their stations here in Greenville. We'll see in a year or two if the ship starts sinking. JAMZ seems to be the only station they care about. Of course, that is the biggie. But sad for the rest of the group.

 

[giovani]

Who is PD over there at HOT, I thought Dave was? Why would they change the PD of a station that was doing so good? I know they let go a bunch of people go because of budgets. But then they hired a new rookie PD when they already had a PD? I think Dave was the PD of Chuck, X and HOT. Chuck is programmed out of town, X is going away, so what the heck? What the heck are they doing over there? Are they making HOT sound like crap on purpose? Yikes.

 

[ShawtyBlack_ATL]

Summit should be thinking Urban Mainstream or Urban Contemporary instead of Urban Gospel. It's waaaaay overdue in the Upstate area. It's time for 107.3 JAMZ to go 100% Urban AC. I haven't listened to HOT 98.1 in years but I'd assume they are still playing a mixture of Top 40 Pop and Hip-Hop? Maybe HOT 98.1 should flip to Urban or Rhythmic with a heavy Hip-Hop and R&B lean? Whatever the case turns out to be, Summit needs to fill the void that lies between HOT 98.1 and 107.3 JAMZ which is Urban, not Urban Gospel.

 

[awp69]

Who is PD over there at HOT, I thought Dave was? Why would they change the PD of a station that was doing so good? I know they let go a bunch of people go because of budgets. But then they hired a new rookie PD when they already had a PD? I think Dave was the PD of Chuck, X and HOT. Chuck is programmed out of town, X is going away, so what the heck? What the heck are they doing over there? Are they making HOT sound like crap on purpose? Yikes.

I'll plead the fifth on that one. But suffice to say, you were correct in saying that the staff itself is not excited about Hot and don't think they'd be too upset if it too went away. I think there may have been more support (amongst local staff) for X than Hot -- just not at the upper management level. IMO, that station has always been kind of a mess. Yes, they may have put up some good numbers from time to time, but it always felt like it was just there as a buffer between B93.7 and JAMZ. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

[carolinaradio]

Summit knows what they are doing with Jamz. They won't mess that up. I'm imagining most of the shots are being called from Birmingham. They know their Urbans there. Hot is a Rhythmic CHR which is a troubled format I doubt they have much experience in, but Cox was still making it work in Greenville by having an Urban slant on it. I think Chuck is essentially programmed out of Charleston.

If Summit gets weak, just remember, Entercom's GM was at Cox for a number of years and probably knows a lot of stuff about Jamz and Hot if they ever decide to launch a competitor. The Summit/Cox thing is just a reminder that smaller broadcasting companies are not always great and the large corporations aren't always evil.

96.7 got around a 1 and a half share in 12+ a couple of books ago but it's since fallen. They'll probably go back up in fall, and aren't doing as badly as they were with gospel.

 

[carolinaradio]

Summit should be thinking Urban Mainstream or Urban Contemporary instead of Urban Gospel. It's waaaaay overdue in the Upstate area. It's time for 107.3 JAMZ to go 100% Urban AC. I haven't listened to HOT 98.1 in years but I'd assume they are still playing a mixture of Top 40 Pop and Hip-Hop? Maybe HOT 98.1 should flip to Urban or Rhythmic with a heavy Hip-Hop and R&B lean? Whatever the case turns out to be, Summit needs to fill the void that lies between HOT 98.1 and 107.3 JAMZ which is Urban, not Urban Gospel.

Last time I heard, basically. That's why I'm wondering if Entercom will eventually go Urban on 93.3 to help prop B up, take Hot down a lot, and shave a little off of Jamz.

 

[giovani]

One thing Summit has going for them is the talent that the old GM took from Entercom. I wonder if he will try to get back any of the superstars he hired when he was at COX. Lets hope for Summits sake those people stay because if they do end back up at Entercom, Summit will fall fast.

 

[awp69]

Last time I heard, basically. That's why I'm wondering if Entercom will eventually go Urban on 93.3 to help prop B up, take Hot down a lot, and shave a little off of Jamz.

There's a few reasons I'd actually like to see that happen. 1) I think The Planet is an atrocity of a station and 2) If 93.3 went Urban, maybe that would give B a chance to be a little more adult-leaning like 96.1 and 95.1 in Charlotte, which both do a better job with non-rhythmic CHR.

And who knows, maybe getting rid of The Planet may open the door for even a mainstream rock station (active/alternative hybrid) to enter the market. It couldn't be any worse than 93.3.

The Summit/Cox thing is just a reminder that smaller broadcasting companies are not always great and the large corporations aren't always evil.

Yep, definately can agree with that.

 

[chrocket87]

As unfortunate as it may be, since X was great for a small market station, this really didn't come as a shock to me. Since translators tend to have limited audience potential, they're generally sold as combo buys with related formats. Here, in Cleveland, 99x is combo sold with a CHR and a mainstream rock station. X98.5 is sold with a Rhythmic, an Urban, and (also strange) Adult Hits. Just seemed like there was no sales synergy, so Gospel does make more sense. This also makes me wonder what is in store for Chuck.....

 

[awp69]

As unfortunate as it may be, since X was great for a small market station, this really didn't come as a shock to me. Since translators tend to have limited audience potential, they're generally sold as combo buys with related formats. Here, in Cleveland, 99x is combo sold with a CHR and a mainstream rock station. X98.5 is sold with a Rhythmic, an Urban, and (also strange) Adult Hits. Just seemed like there was no sales synergy, so Gospel does make more sense. This also makes me wonder what is in store for Chuck.....

It certainly makes sense from a sales standpoint. Guess Cox didn't have the same concerns, but at the same time they probably knew prior to X's startup that the stations would be for sale so they had nothing to lose.

What's sad is that from a radio follower standpoint, I always see translators as a chance to give areas formats that are more "risky". They're low cost and usually run with little staffing. That said the ability to "package" sales is going to be looked at more favorably from owners.

Wish X had been part of a package like that in Cleveland with stations like mainstream rock, CHR or even classic rock so that as an "offshoot" from those genres, it would sell better. I understand that the sales staff at Summit had no idea how to properly market sales for X --- and probably made little attempt to do so given that upper management may have had this planned all along.

All that said, does any other group in the Greenville area (Entercom, Clear Channel), have the ability to run their HD channels off translators? I don't even know if a lot of the HD channels that used to exist still do (like the comedy one that ran off WFBC). Even though I still feel like the alternative format could have possibly taken on The Planet on a full signal -- given the pathetic state of that station, I doubt anyone would be willing to take that risk.

I really don't think X "failed" and I hope other media companies in the area don't take it as such. I think it was on an incredibly bad signal and never had a chance IMO. The numbers may be the best that can be done on that signal. The only reason Urban Gospel could possibly be more successful ratings-wise is if there is cross-promotion with JAMZ, which I think they will do. X didn't have the benefit of cross-promotion on a major signal. The vast majority of the Urban Gospel listener base also will likely be within the city of Greenville proper where its signal strength is the highest.

So, I still think an Alternative station could do well in the area. Yes, Atlanta is a much bigger market. But look at how many times Alternative failed there. And now, Radio 105.7 is doing well because it seems to have found the right mix to build on -- a generally lighter, Hot AC-ish approach to Alternative. It may not have been X's music mix, but whatever the case, I still think Alternative is a viable option in the area because I don't view it as a failure. With The Road kind of floundering - even though it's doing better than its predecessors - I think 96.7 would be an idea signal for it. Not a powerhouse signal, but still far better than X's ever was.