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How's the new Alternative station doing?
- Thread starter artiemad
- Start date
105.7 The Point/St. Louis seems like a clear Rock playlist, though, clearly aimed at a male audience, at least going from this week's currents - there's nothing by Of Monsters And Men, nothing by the Lumineers, no Capital Cities (even though it's #2 on the Alt chart), no New Politics, and barely any Mumford & Sons
I feel like that's much different than DC101, The Buzz, or The End, who play 80-90% Indie-leaning currents, but throw in Active-leaning tracks as recurrent/gold - I think that's just a confusing combination that doesn't fit together very well, and that chases away their potential female audience
I feel like that's much different than DC101, The Buzz, or The End, who play 80-90% Indie-leaning currents, but throw in Active-leaning tracks as recurrent/gold - I think that's just a confusing combination that doesn't fit together very well, and that chases away their potential female audience
No 105.7 The Point does play Safe and Sound and they also play Cold War Kids, Atlas Genius, and even Phoenix. However, those current alternative songs are not played that often.
Can't go by their playlist as of this weekend since they are doing all 90s by looking back over a four hour stretch from Friday after 6 p.m. I see the Joy Formidable, Wavves, Lordes, Tame Impala, The Virgin Marys and The Black Keys. However, I also see Metallica, POP Evil, Korn, Marilyn Manson, and Disturbed.
According to a write up in the paper, 105.7 The Point is 40% "safe" alternative with 10% active rock and 50% active/alternative artist and/or songs which essentially are artist like Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Foo Fighters, etc.
Can't go by their playlist as of this weekend since they are doing all 90s by looking back over a four hour stretch from Friday after 6 p.m. I see the Joy Formidable, Wavves, Lordes, Tame Impala, The Virgin Marys and The Black Keys. However, I also see Metallica, POP Evil, Korn, Marilyn Manson, and Disturbed.
According to a write up in the paper, 105.7 The Point is 40% "safe" alternative with 10% active rock and 50% active/alternative artist and/or songs which essentially are artist like Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Foo Fighters, etc.
WLUM in Milwaukee, which I consider to be an extremely well programmed station, is now up to a 5.1 share! A new record high for them!
http://www.fm1021milwaukee.com
Too bad the Saga-owned stations in Milwaukee are non-subscribers. Would love to see how WLUM stacks up to Heritage Rock 102.9 The Hog in the Brew City.
http://www.fm1021milwaukee.com
Too bad the Saga-owned stations in Milwaukee are non-subscribers. Would love to see how WLUM stacks up to Heritage Rock 102.9 The Hog in the Brew City.
acheron82 said:No 105.7 The Point does play Safe and Sound and they also play Cold War Kids, Atlas Genius, and even Phoenix. However, those current alternative songs are not played that often.
Can't go by their playlist as of this weekend since they are doing all 90s by looking back over a four hour stretch from Friday after 6 p.m. I see the Joy Formidable, Wavves, Lordes, Tame Impala, The Virgin Marys and The Black Keys. However, I also see Metallica, POP Evil, Korn, Marilyn Manson, and Disturbed.
According to a write up in the paper, 105.7 The Point is 40% "safe" alternative with 10% active rock and 50% active/alternative artist and/or songs which essentially are artist like Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Foo Fighters, etc.
I guess what I mean is that The Point has a clear target audience - by "safe" alternative, I think the paper is referring to the fact that those tracks don't isolate the core audience of male Active rock-leaning listeners, because they still have a rock edge to them (Imagine Dragons, Atlas Genius, etc.)
Mediabase hasn't picked up more than 1 spin for Safe And Sound in the past 7 days - maybe they played it earlier and have since dropped it?
Stations that are on the Alternative panel that are trending up, IMO, are clearly defining their target audience, and then programming their station so that the music fits together well and pleases the audience they are targeting - and I think that includes the station a poster just mentioned in Milwaukee, just from comparing their playlist to their website
A lot of stations trending down have taglines that don't match their sound, gold tracks that don't fit in with the current tracks, or are trying to appeal to demos that have polar opposite musical tastes - from what I can tell, anyway...
BTW 97X in Tampa (Cox) is using a playlist similar to Radio 105.7, and it's trending way up, 2.2-3.4 - they're also using a "you control the music" tagline, which IMO seems similar to the WRDA approach
Interesting conversation. To me it's the stations that try to mix current active rock and alternative that can have difficulty getting the right balance. Today's alternative like Capital Cities is so far from bands like Korn and Metallica that I cringe at stations that attempt to do it.
On the other hand, stations that mix in gold songs that would probably fit in more on the active side, like Rage Against the Machine, can do well. Still, someone mentioned once to me that they thought grunge really is what ended up splintering off into active rock. I tend to agree.
Even though the grunge movement helped alternative explode as a genre, what was considered Alternative prior to it - everything from The Cure and The Smiths to Bob Marley and 10,000 Maniacs, was on the "softer" side of the spectrum, with the exception of punk.
There's probably very few alternative stations that don't play any grunge, but that's easily the biggest crossover you'll see between active and alternative stations. Even though I liked grunge at one time, I actually think it really belongs more on active stations. It just fits better.
I don't have any figures, but I agree that today's alternative does do better leaning adult (or Hot AC) just because the bands mix better without the active. Cities where hybrids are doing well are probably also cities with no active only or alternative only stations. If there were choices, the audiences would be more divided.
On the other hand, stations that mix in gold songs that would probably fit in more on the active side, like Rage Against the Machine, can do well. Still, someone mentioned once to me that they thought grunge really is what ended up splintering off into active rock. I tend to agree.
Even though the grunge movement helped alternative explode as a genre, what was considered Alternative prior to it - everything from The Cure and The Smiths to Bob Marley and 10,000 Maniacs, was on the "softer" side of the spectrum, with the exception of punk.
There's probably very few alternative stations that don't play any grunge, but that's easily the biggest crossover you'll see between active and alternative stations. Even though I liked grunge at one time, I actually think it really belongs more on active stations. It just fits better.
I don't have any figures, but I agree that today's alternative does do better leaning adult (or Hot AC) just because the bands mix better without the active. Cities where hybrids are doing well are probably also cities with no active only or alternative only stations. If there were choices, the audiences would be more divided.
Personally, I agree with you but lets stop and think back for a minute. Do you remember when everyone on this board were debating on the definition of "Classic Hits"? I think we have come to terms that "Classic Hits" stations are flexible.
1- Classic Hits that play more of the pop music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s (and now 90s).
2- Classic Hits that play more of the rock music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s (and now 90s).
WYAY was the first type while 97.1 The River is the 2nd and I disagree with those who want to label The River as classic rock but that's a whole new topic.
Now lets look back at Alternative...
There is this school of thinking and we see it in radio that Alternative can go two directions:
1- More rock and less indie with some active/alternative cross-over artist mixed in. These stations will play System of a Down, Tool along with Muse and they will also squeeze in some more indie stuff like Metric while also squeezing in Metallica to keep with more familiar "ROCK" music. These stations are often referred to as "Rock Alternative"
2- More indie leaning with an adult side and also a "hipster" side if that is even a such term in radio. The stations will dig more into the Arcade Fire, Portugal the Man, and M83.
99X started off with the 2nd choice but went strongly in the 1st choice direction towards the end of their life.
So which is more viable? All depends on the climate of the city. In Atlanta, I believe it goes back and forth. Give it a few years and I'm afraid you will see active rock swing back into action in Atlanta.
Here in St. Louis, 105.7 The Point gets on my last nerve but what they are doing is incredibly smart. 105.7 The Point labels themselves as alternative but they play more hard stuff and some full blown active rock from time to time. This makes The Point more of a station for the male vs the female which what Radio 105.7 aims towards. So why is 105.7 making a smart move? Well, they have been THE station in this market for modern rock rather it be active rock or alternative rock and they have blocked full fledged alternative or active rock stations. For me, it sucks because they are late on cutting edge alternative and they stay away from the more edgier style of alternative like M83 and the more adult sounding alternative music like Death Cab for Cutie. They stick with the charts and once those alternative songs drop off the charts, they stop playing it altogether.
If Radio 105.7 wants to remain viable, I think they need to be ready to adjust their format between the two different choices above and never settle for one or the other. Right now, they are doing good at how the station is being programmed but in a few years, the desires for a more robust male sounding alternative station may come about and they should slowly drift in that direction while not abandoning their female listeners and I think this can be done.
Radio 104.5 is one of the best programmed alternative stations in the country (though it's not my personal favorite). Radio 104.5 plays some of the grunge from the 90s, some of the edgier tracks of today, the indie stuff and now they even play Marilyn Manson.
At this point, I think Radio 105.7 - Atlanta - knows what they are doing so I'm not going to say they are doing something wrong right now. Per the ratings, they are doing everything right. They are not going in the direction I would like them to go but I can't complain because an alternative in Atlanta is better than NO alternative. I would like to see more newer stuff though. Lots of alternative bands are not being played and many alternative bands that are being played are not having their newer singles being played. I think in time, they will adjust though.
1- Classic Hits that play more of the pop music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s (and now 90s).
2- Classic Hits that play more of the rock music from the 60s, 70s, and 80s (and now 90s).
WYAY was the first type while 97.1 The River is the 2nd and I disagree with those who want to label The River as classic rock but that's a whole new topic.
Now lets look back at Alternative...
There is this school of thinking and we see it in radio that Alternative can go two directions:
1- More rock and less indie with some active/alternative cross-over artist mixed in. These stations will play System of a Down, Tool along with Muse and they will also squeeze in some more indie stuff like Metric while also squeezing in Metallica to keep with more familiar "ROCK" music. These stations are often referred to as "Rock Alternative"
2- More indie leaning with an adult side and also a "hipster" side if that is even a such term in radio. The stations will dig more into the Arcade Fire, Portugal the Man, and M83.
99X started off with the 2nd choice but went strongly in the 1st choice direction towards the end of their life.
So which is more viable? All depends on the climate of the city. In Atlanta, I believe it goes back and forth. Give it a few years and I'm afraid you will see active rock swing back into action in Atlanta.
Here in St. Louis, 105.7 The Point gets on my last nerve but what they are doing is incredibly smart. 105.7 The Point labels themselves as alternative but they play more hard stuff and some full blown active rock from time to time. This makes The Point more of a station for the male vs the female which what Radio 105.7 aims towards. So why is 105.7 making a smart move? Well, they have been THE station in this market for modern rock rather it be active rock or alternative rock and they have blocked full fledged alternative or active rock stations. For me, it sucks because they are late on cutting edge alternative and they stay away from the more edgier style of alternative like M83 and the more adult sounding alternative music like Death Cab for Cutie. They stick with the charts and once those alternative songs drop off the charts, they stop playing it altogether.
If Radio 105.7 wants to remain viable, I think they need to be ready to adjust their format between the two different choices above and never settle for one or the other. Right now, they are doing good at how the station is being programmed but in a few years, the desires for a more robust male sounding alternative station may come about and they should slowly drift in that direction while not abandoning their female listeners and I think this can be done.
Radio 104.5 is one of the best programmed alternative stations in the country (though it's not my personal favorite). Radio 104.5 plays some of the grunge from the 90s, some of the edgier tracks of today, the indie stuff and now they even play Marilyn Manson.
At this point, I think Radio 105.7 - Atlanta - knows what they are doing so I'm not going to say they are doing something wrong right now. Per the ratings, they are doing everything right. They are not going in the direction I would like them to go but I can't complain because an alternative in Atlanta is better than NO alternative. I would like to see more newer stuff though. Lots of alternative bands are not being played and many alternative bands that are being played are not having their newer singles being played. I think in time, they will adjust though.
awp69 said:Interesting conversation. To me it's the stations that try to mix current active rock and alternative that can have difficulty getting the right balance. Today's alternative like Capital Cities is so far from bands like Korn and Metallica that I cringe at stations that attempt to do it.
On the other hand, stations that mix in gold songs that would probably fit in more on the active side, like Rage Against the Machine, can do well. Still, someone mentioned once to me that they thought grunge really is what ended up splintering off into active rock. I tend to agree.
Even though the grunge movement helped alternative explode as a genre, what was considered Alternative prior to it - everything from The Cure and The Smiths to Bob Marley and 10,000 Maniacs, was on the "softer" side of the spectrum, with the exception of punk.
There's probably very few alternative stations that don't play any grunge, but that's easily the biggest crossover you'll see between active and alternative stations. Even though I liked grunge at one time, I actually think it really belongs more on active stations. It just fits better.
I don't have any figures, but I agree that today's alternative does do better leaning adult (or Hot AC) just because the bands mix better without the active. Cities where hybrids are doing well are probably also cities with no active only or alternative only stations. If there were choices, the audiences would be more divided.
acheron82 said:Now lets look back at Alternative...
There is this school of thinking and we see it in radio that Alternative can go two directions:
1- More rock and less indie with some active/alternative cross-over artist mixed in. These stations will play System of a Down, Tool along with Muse and they will also squeeze in some more indie stuff like Metric while also squeezing in Metallica to keep with more familiar "ROCK" music. These stations are often referred to as "Rock Alternative"
2- More indie leaning with an adult side and also a "hipster" side if that is even a such term in radio. The stations will dig more into the Arcade Fire, Portugal the Man, and M83.
If Radio 105.7 wants to remain viable, I think they need to be ready to adjust their format between the two different choices above and never settle for one or the other.
Acheron, I think Radio 105.7 is offering a third choice, that hasn't really been done before, which is lean Hot AC - I feel like what WRDA is doing now fills a similar niche to what Modern ACs did in the late 90s/early 2000s, only now you can't be put in the HAC column without playing Pink, Katy Perry, and Maroon 5, so the only place to put them is Alternative
The station might've been different if Rock 100.5 hadn't included currents, but now that it's molded like it is, and something like the 3rd or 4th highest rated Alternative station in the country, it's clear IMO that this is the right direction
If Active Rock becomes more popular again in a few years, I think Rock 100.5 will benefit from it, but I doubt that 105.7 would make any adjustments in that direction, as long as ratings remain as high as they are - just going from their ads, they have a large number of female listeners, and they definitely don't want to lose that base
I think they adjusted the 96.7 signal to cover Buckhead and the Southern part of Sandy Springs
One of the reasons that Radio 105.7 is doing a good job is that they are including more of the lighter / almost dance fare. It is refreshing to hear Capital Cities' "Safe and Sound," AWOLNATION'S "Sail,' and "Midnight City" by M83.
Even Sean Demery mentioned he felt part of 99X's demise was that in the 2000s that the station was losing its appeal to women and alternative-lifestyle crowds and just tried to appeal to men 18-34. What made 99X so appealing in the early 90s was that you didn't know what you would hear - even after they completely dropped all Top 40 by its second month of existence.
I hope the best of Radio 105.7.
Even Sean Demery mentioned he felt part of 99X's demise was that in the 2000s that the station was losing its appeal to women and alternative-lifestyle crowds and just tried to appeal to men 18-34. What made 99X so appealing in the early 90s was that you didn't know what you would hear - even after they completely dropped all Top 40 by its second month of existence.
I hope the best of Radio 105.7.
Perhaps 105.7 should be called "The Chameleon" since it changes every two years or so.
96.7 should be "The Alternative" since it alternates being 105.7's simulcast signal about
every other format.
96.7 should be "The Alternative" since it alternates being 105.7's simulcast signal about
every other format.
RadioFreeAtlanta said:One of the reasons that Radio 105.7 is doing a good job is that they are including more of the lighter / almost dance fare. It is refreshing to hear Capital Cities' "Safe and Sound," AWOLNATION'S "Sail,' and "Midnight City" by M83.
FYI those are staples on the Alternative format - everyone's playing them (glad you like them, though ;D)
TBH, I'm starting to get sick of hearing the same 30-40 songs over and over - I think it's time for them to start adding in at least one new track every couple hours, maybe a different track each time they do it, so that if listeners dislike a song, they only hear it once or twice a week
IMO the problem with their previous attempt at adding in newer tracks is that they put them straight into medium rotation, so that people who disliked Breezeblocks, Diane Young, etc. had to hear them multiple times every day
I think it's a much better idea to add in newer/unfamiliar tracks into very light rotation, but add in a lot of them, so that listeners have some excitement when they tune in, and then can go ahead and buy songs they like on ITunes, etc.
Perhaps it's because Alternative is my prize format but I'm finding myself listening to 105.7 less and less because of all the repeat older songs. They have got to add some newer stuff.
Do they even play the new one from Cold War Kids. Amazing song and if 105.7 is not playing it, they are likely the only alt station that is not. I'm hearing it on alt/active hybrid stations as well as AAA stations.
Do they even play the new one from Cold War Kids. Amazing song and if 105.7 is not playing it, they are likely the only alt station that is not. I'm hearing it on alt/active hybrid stations as well as AAA stations.
acheron82 said:Do they even play the new one from Cold War Kids.
They do, but only once a week - there's always a new cutting-edge track at 3 p. m. daily, and then one or two in the evenings/overnight I think
If they took those 10-12 cutting-edge tracks and spun them each once a day (instead of once or twice a week), that would give listeners at least once cutting-edge track every two hours or so - and, again, if they don't like it, they most likely won't hear it again that week - but a couple hours later they would have a new cutting-edge track, so there'd always be incentive to listen on IMO - and still two hours of familiar music in between for the more conservative crowd
Well, with the imminent demise of Greenville's X98.5 (going to Urban Gospel), I decided to stream 105.7 all day today and I'm really enjoying it. I like it's low-key approach and, in all honesty, it seems more "adult" than even Radio 104.5 (which I still would probably consider my favorite alt station). I think I'll miss X's more risky approach to new adds. I can tell Radio 105.7 is still more conservative with its new music, which is fine if it's working and getting the numbers it takes to survive.
Still hope Alternative comes back to GSP as I don't consider X to be a failure, but didn't have much of a chance on one of the area's poorest signals (we'd hear the ATL's 98.5 over it regularly on sunny Spring and Summer mornings). And the Summit group seems to be gangbusters on Urban and it didn't fit in with their vision.
But for now, I'll happily listen to this and 104.5 at work and at home. And suffer in the car with little to like locally...
Still hope Alternative comes back to GSP as I don't consider X to be a failure, but didn't have much of a chance on one of the area's poorest signals (we'd hear the ATL's 98.5 over it regularly on sunny Spring and Summer mornings). And the Summit group seems to be gangbusters on Urban and it didn't fit in with their vision.
But for now, I'll happily listen to this and 104.5 at work and at home. And suffer in the car with little to like locally...
I thought they were doing so well. That is a damn shame. I hate to hear that about X98.5.
Regarding 105.7, I've stopped listening to them until they can start adding some different music. If I hear Sail one more damn time, I'm going to sail my radio out the window. Station is not adding new stuff at all and is still playing a few selected songs from only a few artist and repeating the hell out of it.
I understood their conservative approach at first but this is getting ridiculous.
For radio - You said you liked Radio 104.5. Here lately, their playlist has got tight again. If I may, let me introduce you to WEQX out of Albany, NY. Amazing alternative station! Search WEQX and you can find their playlist and their live stream.
Regarding 105.7, I've stopped listening to them until they can start adding some different music. If I hear Sail one more damn time, I'm going to sail my radio out the window. Station is not adding new stuff at all and is still playing a few selected songs from only a few artist and repeating the hell out of it.
I understood their conservative approach at first but this is getting ridiculous.
For radio - You said you liked Radio 104.5. Here lately, their playlist has got tight again. If I may, let me introduce you to WEQX out of Albany, NY. Amazing alternative station! Search WEQX and you can find their playlist and their live stream.
Well, with the imminent demise of Greenville's X98.5 (going to Urban Gospel), I decided to stream 105.7 all day today and I'm really enjoying it. I like it's low-key approach and, in all honesty, it seems more "adult" than even Radio 104.5 (which I still would probably consider my favorite alt station). I think I'll miss X's more risky approach to new adds. I can tell Radio 105.7 is still more conservative with its new music, which is fine if it's working and getting the numbers it takes to survive.
Still hope Alternative comes back to GSP as I don't consider X to be a failure, but didn't have much of a chance on one of the area's poorest signals (we'd hear the ATL's 98.5 over it regularly on sunny Spring and Summer mornings). And the Summit group seems to be gangbusters on Urban and it didn't fit in with their vision.
But for now, I'll happily listen to this and 104.5 at work and at home. And suffer in the car with little to like locally...
I thought they were doing so well. That is a damn shame. I hate to hear that about X98.5.
Regarding 105.7, I've stopped listening to them until they can start adding some different music. If I hear Sail one more damn time, I'm going to sail my radio out the window. Station is not adding new stuff at all and is still playing a few selected songs from only a few artist and repeating the hell out of it.
I understood their conservative approach at first but this is getting ridiculous.
For radio - You said you liked Radio 104.5. Here lately, their playlist has got tight again. If I may, let me introduce you to WEQX out of Albany, NY. Amazing alternative station! Search WEQX and you can find their playlist and their live stream.
Thanks, acheron82. I will most definately check out WEQX.
I guess for me and Radio 105.7, I haven't listened long enough for it to be stale just yet. I do like how they play things like older U2 and R.E.M. that don't get heard too often on the bigger Alternative stations anymore.
That said, having had a station that was big on new music, I'm starting to see how you could get frustrated with how cautious they are. For instance, I heard them last night announce they were going to play a new song by Pepper ("F*** Around"). I realize that song just recently started really moving up the charts, but X98.5 has been playing it for months. So yeah, I hear you.
It'd be nice to have a balance between being at least a little more risky in new music adds and also playing a wide variety of older alternative (that was X98.5s biggest weak point is that most of their definition of '90s alternative was grunge and very little else.)
I will definately see what Albany's station is like.
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Revisiting a previous discussion in this thread, I have noticed a pretty good improvement in the audio quality, save for a few specific songs. Obviously, effort has gone into the sound.
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