Songs You Remember And Like But Never Get Played

[davideduardo]

The station that I cited that played "Disco Duck" has had its same format for AT LEAST five years. T

The station you cited is a classic hits / oldies hybrid in a market where 65% of the Fall '13 shares went to country and African American targeted formats. The market has 13 total commercial stations, several of which are rimshots, while WMXX, despite it being an underpower C2, is home to the market. Yet it is 9th overall in 25-54, and the lowest rated save for the Alamo Gospel rimshot.

Obviously, without competition in a format that is rather secondary (as evidenced by the fact it only cumes about 8% of the market, vs. around 20% for major gold based pop stations such as CBS-FM), we can see that they feel they don't have to spend much time on good programming.

They play anything they want because of limited competition, but they could do so much better if they cut the crap.

 

[Avid Listener]

This thread is fun to read, but really, are there still people out there who depend on commercial radio for their main source of music? If there are songs that you want to hear on radio but don't, put 'em on your iPod.

If I have all the music I want to hear on my iPod (or in my case, MP3 player, since I don't do Apple!), why would I ever turn my radio on and tune in a music station?

 

[TheBigA]

This thread is fun to read, but really, are there still people out there who depend on commercial radio for their main source of music?

Only 244 million. Thanks to them, I have a job. I thank them and listen to what they say every day.

 

[TheBigA]

If I have all the music I want to hear on my iPod (or in my case, MP3 player, since I don't do Apple!), why would I ever turn my radio on and tune in a music station?

So this is a big waste of time for you?

 

[oldies76]

They play anything they want because of limited competition, but they could do so much better if they cut the crap.

Exactly why many small market stations get it right.

To you it's crap, to the listening public and music buffs, it's not.

 

[Avid Listener]

So this is a big waste of time for you?

No, this is actually fun for me. And, even though you and David keep defending old-school, boring radio as being the only thing that works, I think that the opinions presented by many of us who would like to see radio return to being an entertaining medium might well be read by open-minded radio station managers and executives who can actually recognize the worth of new thinking and new ideas. And maybe, just maybe, radio might someday return to being as genuinely entertaining and fun as it was when the first "underground" DJ's started popping up on FM, or when guys like Alan Freed and Porky Chedwick turned AM radio around a decade or so earlier.

 

[Avid Listener]

Exactly why many small market stations get it right.

To you it's crap, to the listening public and music buffs, it's not.

Amen!

(that's a big Amen!)

 

[oldies76]

No, this is actually fun for me. And, even though you and David keep defending old-school, boring radio as being the only thing that works, I think that the opinions presented by many of us who would like to see radio return to being an entertaining medium might well be read by open-minded radio station managers and executives who can actually recognize the worth of new thinking and new ideas. And maybe, just maybe, radio might someday return to being as genuinely entertaining and fun as it was when the first "underground" DJ's started popping up on FM, or when guys like Alan Freed and Porky Chedwick turned AM radio around a decade or so earlier.

There was a time, when listening to the radio was entertaining and fun, unlike today. Check this out:

http://buff.ucsd.edu/music/krth/

This special inspired me to work in radio (KWVE - Board Op 1987-1993) and start a music collection. And it was fun to listen to, the entire weekend.

Oh, thanks for the big AMEN!!

 

[TheBigA]

And, even though you and David keep defending old-school, boring radio as being the only thing that works.

I don't see it as defending anything. We're the weathermen, telling you why, in your area, it's raining.

As for underground DJs, I studied under the late Thom O'Hair, who was one of the original progressive rock DJs in San Francisco. But even he was a realist, and knew that radio is a business, not a playpen. The reason he was able to take chances in his day was because no one was listening. Once rock became a big business in the 70s, and everyone was watching, it all changed. For it to happen again, someone either has to be willing to risk their own money with a very low-rated radio station (that's what happened in 1966 in San Francisco), or invent a new platform that no one is watching.

 

[davideduardo]

No, this is actually fun for me. And, even though you and David keep defending old-school, boring radio as being the only thing that works, I think that the opinions presented by many of us who would like to see radio return to being an entertaining medium might well be read by open-minded radio station managers and executives who can actually recognize the worth of new thinking and new ideas.

Stations and their management are constantly looking for trends and adapting to them. The trend of the last few years has been towards new media distribution and pull-based entertainment choices. Most innovation is in that area where you see the development of format variants, new music discovery, and on-demand programming coming from the operators of OTA radio stations.

And maybe, just maybe, radio might someday return to being as genuinely entertaining and fun as it was when the first "underground" DJ's started popping up on FM,

The "underground" DJs came up after the FCC mandated separate programming on heretofore simulcast FMs. Station owners, not wanting to disrupt their profitable AMs, picked formats that had nothing in common with their AMs. And when the progressive stations got some numbers, Lee Abrams came along and developed a tight playlist, core artist based version of the format and blew the DJs and the free form stations away, save for one or two outstanding progressive stations that were already somewhat disciplined in their playlists.

Your alternate history is just not factual.

or when guys like Alan Freed and Porky Chedwick turned AM radio around a decade or so earlier.

Alan Freed certainly did not turn AM radio around. Radio started being "turned around" back in '52 when Todd Storz invented Top 40 at KOWH... and was soon followed by Gordon McLendon's stations, starting with KLIF. These were entire radio stations that went to Top 40 during their entire operating schedule. Freed did not program a station; he did a late night show on an also-ran station in Cleveland which ran network programming in the daytime and put Freed on the air, bought and paid for by a record store (Record Rondevous) that had its own self interest in mind (and loads of record company influences).

 

[ok walters]

This thread is fun to read, but really, are there still people out there who depend on commercial radio for their main source of music? If there are songs that you want to hear on radio but don't, put 'em on your iPod.

Yes, as was stated before 244 million (including you at times or you wouldn't be on here complaining) depend on radio at some point each week.

The average person just isn't big enough of a music fan to PAY FOR and build and manage a music library of any size like you are talking about. What would a 2500 song library cost to build and maintain legally? I am using that number because your whole argument is that the 1000 song music libraries that many oldies/classic hits stations use is too small. Radio is free and there really are few other truly free alternatives. Programmed to the masses, lots of familiar music, and FREE adds up to 244 million.

 

[ok walters]

Yeah, like playing the SAME song FOUR TIMES STRAIGHT ON A MONDAY AFTERNOON! Like playing nothing but commercials FOR HALF AN HOUR STRAIGHT! There is just not much oversight there. Things screw up, and no one is there to fix it. They run ads seeking account executives, but yet they have apparently nationalized that, too. I never hear commercials for "Bob's Garage" or anything local like that, it is always the ones with the 800 number repeated at least three times at the end. So apparently the bigger they are, the harder they will fall.

Can't say I have ever heard 30 minutes of commercials or the same song four times in a row on ANY station, much less a Cumulus station. I am sure there are exceptions, but once again Cumulus has not grown to their current size by being clueless.

Funny you mention the lack of local commercials - just confirms that the format is a tough sell in many areas where seniors don't dominate the population.

 

[firepoint525]

Can't say I have ever heard 30 minutes of commercials or the same song four times in a row on ANY station, much less a Cumulus station. I am sure there are exceptions, but once again Cumulus has not grown to their current size by being clueless.
Funny you mention the lack of local commercials - just confirms that the format is a tough sell in many areas where seniors don't dominate the population.

Wow, you are just not going to give up, are you? I should further point out that Cumulus did absolutely NO promotion whatsoever of 97.1 when it was in the classic hits format. They promoted their other stations (and still do), but NOTHING for 97.1 as a classic hits station. Not even anything for that station as a Vanderbilt affiliate station. Compare this to when they were Star 97 and Oldies 97.1. I saw billboards for Star 97 (a hot AC/'80s station) all over town. Even when they blew up Star 97 to become Oldies 97.1 (after Oldies 96.3 became Jack-FM), they had license plates and stickers. I still have some of that stuff. Bottom line is that Cumulus just treated 97.1 like the ugly red-headed stepchild, and it showed on air. Apparently NOBODY there to monitor things whenever something screwed up (which it did EVERY Monday afternoon like clockwork there for a while). If I were to call the station, I probably would not have reached anyone. I would have HATED to be the receptionist (assuming that they actually had one but Cumulus is so cheap, so who knows?) having to field all those calls (assuming that anyone actually was listening, or cared enough to call) from curious or irate listeners wondering what the hell was going on there! (They got a comment on their Facebook page for playing "Livin' Thing" by ELO four times in a row, and I made sure to "like" the comment.)

Oh, and that "cattle call" for account executives? That announcement aired on ALL their Nashville stations! Yeah, it must be tough to sell airtime on a station that even its OWNERS won't promote! (I am seeing billboards now for 97.1 as a K-Love station.)

 

[ok walters]

Wow, you are just not going to give up, are you? I should further point out that Cumulus did absolutely NO promotion whatsoever of 97.1 when it was in the classic hits format. They promoted their other stations (and still do), but NOTHING for 97.1 as a classic hits station. Not even anything for that station as a Vanderbilt affiliate station. Compare this to when they were Star 97 and Oldies 97.1. I saw billboards for Star 97 (a hot AC/'80s station) all over town. Even when they blew up Star 97 to become Oldies 97.1 (after Oldies 96.3 became Jack-FM), they had license plates and stickers. I still have some of that stuff. Bottom line is that Cumulus just treated 97.1 like the ugly red-headed stepchild, and it showed on air. Apparently NOBODY there to monitor things whenever something screwed up (which it did EVERY Monday afternoon like clockwork there for a while). If I were to call the station, I probably would not have reached anyone. I would have HATED to be the receptionist (assuming that they actually had one but Cumulus is so cheap, so who knows?) having to field all those calls (assuming that anyone actually was listening, or cared enough to call) from curious or irate listeners wondering what the hell was going on there! (They got a comment on their Facebook page for playing "Livin' Thing" by ELO four times in a row, and I made sure to "like" the comment.)

Oh, and that "cattle call" for account executives? That announcement aired on ALL their Nashville stations! Yeah, it must be tough to sell airtime on a station that even its OWNERS won't promote! (I am seeing billboards now for 97.1 as a K-Love station.)

Talk about not giving up. A long rant about a station that failed at your prescribed format but is now apparently successful with a new format. Please explain how Cumulus is so large if they are as clueless as you claim. It isn't by default trust me. Tell us about a station that is very successful with your format - that would help your case instead of hurting it by talking about a station that didn't work out.

They advertise on all of their local stations for account execs because many times they are sold as a group, so if you sell for one you sell for all.

 

[firepoint525]

The station you cited is a classic hits / oldies hybrid in a market where 65% of the Fall '13 shares went to country and African American targeted formats. The market has 13 total commercial stations, several of which are rimshots, while WMXX, despite it being an underpower C2, is home to the market. Yet it is 9th overall in 25-54, and the lowest rated save for the Alamo Gospel rimshot.
Obviously, without competition in a format that is rather secondary (as evidenced by the fact it only cumes about 8% of the market, vs. around 20% for major gold based pop stations such as CBS-FM), we can see that they feel they don't have to spend much time on good programming.
They play anything they want because of limited competition, but they could do so much better if they cut the crap.

I am sure that you know everything that there is to know (and then some) about promoting stations in NYC or LA, but what makes you think that someone in Jackson, TN, would want to hear the exact same playlist as someone in NYC or LA? Granted, "Disco Duck" was an unusual choice, even for them, but maybe they played it because there are still folks there who remember Rick Dees from when he was on WHBQ or even WMPS back in the '70s before he went out to LA. "Nationalization" of playlists is what has made radio so boring. Still like to hear some REGIONAL hits every once in a while. And yes, I have bought some regional hit 45s on Ebay and added them to my collection in recent years.

If you want a nationalized playlist, I offer you WKOM out of Columbia, TN. Columbia is a (relatively) small town, so they probably can't afford to pay live djs, so they take a satellite feed out of Dallas. Their playlist is good, especially for a station of its size, and their network announcers are better than anyone that they could find locally. Back before Hippie came on here in Nashville, I wrote to WKOM, asking if they could upgrade their power. They couldn't, but said that they would forward my comments on to their PD in Dallas. (I made no bones about the fact that I knew that they were not local, but I did not criticize them for that, because I know that it would be tough for them to pay a live dj to fill all those shifts.) Even so, their playlist is pretty safe, with no unusual titles in it. Biggest drawback to this station (other than my inability to receive them) is that they carry both NASCAR (I call it "NASTYCAR") and the Vols, along with high school sports. So there are many times when they are not playing music, particularly on the weekends. And there are various NASTYCAR and Vols talk shows that they are apparently obligated to carry during the week.

 

[firepoint525]

Talk about not giving up. A long rant about a station that failed at your prescribed format but is now apparently successful with a new format. Please explain how Cumulus is so large if they are as clueless as you claim. It isn't by default trust me. Tell us about a station that is very successful with your format - that would help your case instead of hurting it by talking about a station that didn't work out.
They advertise on all of their local stations for account execs because many times they are sold as a group, so if you sell for one you sell for all.

Well, geeze, if you would actually pay attention, I have already mentioned THREE in just this thread alone! Hippie Radio here in Nashville (two years and counting, plenty of local spots, and few national ones), Kool 103 in Jackson, TN, and WKOM in Columbia, although all three have their faults. There is also Classic Hits KQK out of Memphis, and a station in eastern Arkansas (apparently near Forest City) that we could receive from Little Rock all the way to Memphis.

Kool 103 has had the format for many years, not sure about the others, but they all appear to be going strong, and apparently none of them are handicapped by a parent company that does not know what to do with them.

 

[davideduardo]

I should further point out that Cumulus did absolutely NO promotion whatsoever of 97.1 when it was in the classic hits format.

When the station switched from rock to classic hits, it was already in a divestiture situation. Would you have spent money on a station you were going to try to sell to someone who would lessen the commercial competition in the market?

The station, irrespective of format, is burdened with an inadequate signal... the 70 dbu misses half the Nashville MSA population.

Bottom line is that Cumulus just treated 97.1 like the ugly red-headed stepchild, and it showed on air.

Of course they did. They were trying to minimize costs and sell the thing.

Oh, and that "cattle call" for account executives? That announcement aired on ALL their Nashville stations! Yeah, it must be tough to sell airtime on a station that even its OWNERS won't promote!

Recruiting among the listener base is often a good way of finding sellers that believe in what you do.

 

[TheBigA]

"Nationalization" of playlists is what has made radio so boring. Still like to hear some REGIONAL hits every once in a while.

As I've suggested throughout this thread, everyone has personal things they enjoy. You're not going to get that from radio, regardless of where the playlist comes from. Keep in mind that historically the record industry became nationalized long before radio. And most of the radio people who played those regional hits are either passed away or retired. Even if a playlist is made locally, it will be drawn from national charts because there aren't local resources available from that time. The only people who have memories of those regional hits are people like you.

 

[TheBigA]

Recruiting among the listener base is often a good way of finding sellers that believe in what you do.

TV stations do it too. And it's a central way that public radio stations attract membership money.

 

[davideduardo]

I am sure that you know everything that there is to know (and then some) about promoting stations in NYC or LA, but what makes you think that someone in Jackson, TN, would want to hear the exact same playlist as someone in NYC or LA?

The same thing that made "Your Hit Parade" a major radio and TV show for decades from the 30's to the 50's. And what makes the Grammy's or the ACM awards so popular on TV. There is vastly more commonality within the US than there is dissimilarity. All the big hits are national, and regional hits become diffused after a decade or two because in the US so many people move about the country.

As to "knowing... NYC and LA" I also know Birmingham and Lake City and Tallahassee and El Paso and McAllen. And it's funny that the same base concepts of radio, whatever they may be in any particular year or decade or era, are pretty general across the nation.

Granted, "Disco Duck" was an unusual choice, even for them, but maybe they played it because there are still folks there who remember Rick Dees from when he was on WHBQ or even WMPS back in the '70s before he went out to LA.

That was almost 40 years ago. Anyone who remembers Dees in Jackson from listening to a Memphis station (he was only in Memphis a few years between leaving WSGN in around 73 and going to LA shortly thereafter) is going to be 60 now. Most people will not remember the name of a DJ they listened to that morning when they fill in the diary that evening!

"Nationalization" of playlists is what has made radio so boring.

If you look at the songs that did well enough to be "big hits" you find very, very few regional ones. And, since TV (and the fan magazines) have always been predominantly national (think Dick Clark and all the countdown shows) that "nationalization" has been intense for five or six decades. And even before, national networks on radio made the big band songs and the crooners national idols.

Biggest drawback to this station (other than my inability to receive them) is that they carry both NASCAR (I call it "NASTYCAR") and the Vols, along with high school sports. So there are many times when they are not playing music, particularly on the weekends. And there are various NASTYCAR and Vols talk shows that they are apparently obligated to carry during the week.

Betch'a they WANT to carry those vols shows and those NASCAR shows as they likely make a lot more money than playing music at the same time. And they get results for advertisers, meaning that they get listening.