Krth 101 personality changes - weekends purged?

[TheBigA]

Do you think KLOS will ever drop all the '60s music and add more '90s? In our lifetime? Even a dinosaur can't live forever.

They have to do something. KLOS listeners don't have to complain...they can listen to The Sound or Jack.

My point is that KLOS is to rock what KRTH fans want for pop. And you can see the results. It doesn't work, especially in LA, where the demographics have changed as many boomers have retired to other, cheaper places, like Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado.

 

[oldies76]

Again, I hope the moderators do read this thread, and all the others you have hijacked, and make you stop turning every KRTH thread into a series of your rants.

Too bad you have an agenda of taking down posters that disagree with you. And since this is an open forum, your wishful thinking won't come into fruition, unless it becomes vulgar and abusive..etc.... that Radio Rewind expressed recently.

If you don't like it, move on. There are many other forums out there to hopefully please you instead. But unfortunately for you, most of these other forums also have "rants" about K-Earth 101 as well by other posters with similar complaints, so it isn't just us.

It's a widespread issue that won't go away anytime soon. You should though.

 

[oldies76]

Heres my take. KRTH was a well programmed radio station that touched many lives and a wide demo for many years. They were a natural extension of KHJ. Then there's the longevity piece. I think this station meant a great deal of things to many people. And when the change came so abruptly it was as if many of us lost an old friend. We were forced to look elsewhere to find a station or stations that did all the things KRTH did. For some, it's been a tough transition and *sad to watch.

Exactly and well said.

 

[TheBigA]

If you don't like it, move on. There are many other forums out there to hopefully please you instead.

The difference being that KM lives in LA, and you don't. As You have stated, you live in a market that has a station that does what you like. You have no reason to complain. But you choose to post in other markets to do nothing but complain about a station you no longer listen to.

It's a widespread issue that won't go away anytime soon.

But the issue HAS gone away, because the programmers are obviously doing the right thing. It is winning in every market. They have no reason to consider what you suggest.

Exactly and well said.

Except you weren't "forced to look elsewhere." You moved to another market where you found a station that gives you exactly what you want. But you insist on complaining about a station in your former home. You have no reason to complain.

 

[oldies76]

Except you weren't "forced to look elsewhere." You moved to another market where you found a station that gives you exactly what you want. But you insist on complaining about a station in your former home.

AM 1530 / 690 locally is ok, plays different songs that KRTH does not, it's a good mix, but no specials. Wish they had more, but I'll take it. There's also "The Rock" out of Denver, AM 1510.

Sad that I have to resort to distant AM stations (some with static) to listen to good music on the radio, but I guess that's the way it is in 2014.

Maybe we can have good discussions after all, w/o mentioning KRTH. It's fine by me, really.
For myself, KRTH is now a lost cause.

 

[TheBigA]

For myself, KRTH is now a lost cause.

That's OK....you don't live in the market, so you're off the radar.

 

[K.M. Richards]

The complaints have nothing to do with the station, but the boomers, who can't accept change.

And have adequately proved that over and over and over.

 

[davideduardo]

AM 1530 / 690 locally is ok.There's also "The Rock" out of Denver, AM 1510.

Does the fact that you like stations with failing formats that are obviously teetering on the edge of bankruptcy convey some kind of message about how, perhaps, what you like is essentially of no appeal?

 

[K.M. Richards]

I didn't get a chance to read this entire post until just now, but as I feel a legitimate question asked deserves an honest answer ...

Let me ask the professionals from your own personal standpoint. Ratings, numbers and reasons aside - have you ever lost a station you loved? Have you ever felt somewhat betrayed? Strong but you get the point. A radio station you felt was special. One that was more than just a dial position or a set of call letters?

The answer here is ... of course. Radio programmers inevitably get attached to stations that we have at some point in our careers either worked at, programmed, consulted, or emulated.

I think in my case it was the original incarnation of KNX-FM (pre-1983). I can still hear the intros of a lot of those songs in my head. I can still hear their air talent -- David Hall, Michael Sheehy, Paul Crosswhite in particular -- announcing those songs. I can still remember many of those long, beautiful mellow rock jingles. And I adapted a lot of what they did to at least two of the A/C stations I programmed early in my career. I thought CBS was crazy to rip it off the air and attempt to take on KIIS-FM as KKHR (and that attempt took less than three years to crash and burn) and I was thrilled when KNX-FM came back in 1986.

Only ... it wasn't the same. The new version was tailored for the same demographic as the old one, which meant it was targeted at listeners ten years or so younger than I was. And after CBS tinkered and tinkered with it, KNX-FM bore no resemblance to the station I had loved, and it was replaced with KODJ, then KCBS-FM, Arrow 93, and for the past decade Jack.

Yeah, I still miss KNX-FM. But I don't make a pest of myself complaining about it, because I understand that radio is a business. It always has been, and it is a business that I understand. Being past the "magic age" of 54, when the advertising community considers me not worth marketing to, I am in the awkward position of consulting stations and creating formats that will draw ad dollars, even if some of my client stations end up sounding like something I don't personally want to listen to. But I don't bitch and whine about it.

I think the famous "serenity prayer" applies:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

There's your answer. I hope it didn't make you sorry you asked.

 

[davideduardo]

The answer here is ... of course. Radio programmers inevitably get attached to stations that we have at some point in our careers either worked at, programmed, consulted, or emulated.

There is even a step beyond remembering a station one was involved with that embodied the best of ones abilities and skills. And that is being in the position of later having to knock off that station that you loved because of now being employed by its competitor.

I went through that with a station that was the first in its genre... a real, live, original format. It was WZNT in San Juan (Market 15) and it was the first all-salsa station ever. It went from a cold launch to a 33.5 share in three months in a 30 station market. A few years later, I went to manage for Metroplex in Miami and left WZNT. But 4 years later, I accepted a position with and also-ran station back in San Juan that was literally last in the ratings... with a bad version of the WZNT format. My job was to beat WZNT, which was a bit like being asked to cut a finger off.

 

[michael hagerty]

Let me ask the professionals from your own personal standpoint. Ratings, numbers and reasons aside - have you ever lost a station you loved? Have you ever felt somewhat betrayed? Strong but you get the point. A radio station you felt was special. One that was more than just a dial position or a set of call letters? Mine was losing KSFO and KFRC in the 80s. And all the legitimate reasons in the world won't take the emotion away.

Sure. In fact, you and I have KFRC in common on that list. My equivalent of KSFO is its then-sister station, KMPC. And I could add KBCA-FM in Los Angeles, perhaps the best jazz station I've ever heard (now KKGO)...KFMB-AM in San Diego from 1974-1982 or so was my idea of the perfect Adult Contemporary station...KZZP, Phoenix under Guy Zapolean (1984-87) was probably the last CHR I considered my favorite radio station.

KMR and I have KNX-FM in common. But I loved KKHR (which replaced KNX-FM), too, once they worked the bugs out of the sound (they still needed a high-profile morning show and a promotion budget, neither of which they got) and I think that for most of its run, JACK-FM has been darn near perfect in terms of attitude for Los Angeles.

Having lost loved ones in my life at an early age, I know that truly important things and people aren't here forever. I'd much rather hear a radio station re-invent itself and provide a new audience with the same level of enjoyment I got from it than hear it wither away and die.

Take KMPC. The first radio station I can ever remember hearing. With the exception of Bob Crane on KNX and Dodger games on KFI, the only station my parents ever listened to. The radio station that made me want to be on the radio. By the end, in 1992 (I'm leaving out its implosion in the early 80s and a failed two-year attempt at talk), the big mansion on Sunset had a burned-out light bulb in the men's room that became fodder for Robert W. Morgan. Everything was running on a shoestring. They'd stayed too long and watched their revenue dwindle.

As for the subject at hand, KRTH exists because it spent 9 years (1976-85) as an adult contemporary station, and a very successful one, when the oldies numbers went south the first time. If it had said "K-Earth means 50s and 60s oldies" and refused to change in 1976, it would have been dead by '78 and we wouldn't be having this discussion now. It damn near died in 2005, and it was Jhani Kaye's reinvention of it (for which he was reviled by many of the same posters who now are railing against the changes to what he brought) that saved it. And now, it's been (within a few months) 10 years. KFWB's entire lifespan as a Top 40 station.

Let it (and every other station) change. Let it be relevant and prosperous. The alternative is the radio equivalent of "If I can't have you anymore, then no one can."

 

[oldies76]

Does the fact that you like stations with failing formats that are obviously teetering on the edge of bankruptcy convey some kind of message about how, perhaps, what you like is essentially of no appeal?

But hey, they are broadcasting, alive and well (barely it seems), so far in 2014. In fact, these two stations also have signals on FM as well. They just have to make themselves a bit more well-known around the area.

http://www.937therock.com/

For the station in Pueblo (KWRP), which also broadcasts on 100.3 and AM 690, what does K262BB refer to? I hear it as part of their legal ID.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

But hey, they are broadcasting, alive and well (barely it seems), so far in 2014. In fact, these two stations also have signals on FM as well. They just have to make themselves a bit more well-known around the area.

http://www.937therock.com/

For the station in Pueblo (KWRP), which also broadcasts on 100.3 and AM 690, what does K262BB refer to? I hear it as part of their legal ID.

It's a translator on FM

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=K262BB&x=9&y=3&sr=Y&s=C

 

[davideduardo]

But hey, they are broadcasting, alive and well (barely it seems), so far in 2014. In fact, these two stations also have signals on FM as well. They just have to make themselves a bit more well-known around the area.

No amount of promotion will help either of them. Unduplicated formats appealing to specific under-served age groups have a way of getting discovered if they are any good. The old "Music of your Life" stations generally did little promotion, were often on lesser facilities, and got very good numbers.

For the station in Pueblo (KWRP), which also broadcasts on 100.3 and AM 690, what does K262BB refer to? I hear it as part of their legal ID.

The FM is a translator, not a full Class A or Class C broadcasting station; oversimplified, translators rebroadcast the content of another station or an HD channel of another station. Translators are generally smaller in coverage than A's or C's. Translators have call letters that consist of the appropriate K or W, and a unique alphanumeric set of numbers and letters.

(If not inside the coverage area of a station it rebroadcasts, a translator may not be owned by said station. Early on, translators were intended to make larger city stations available to smaller remote communities but a station may not use a translator to extend its calculated coverage area.)

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Interesting the 1510 signal is 10kw daytime but 25kw at night with a pattern change ... the ol' bowtie pattern

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KCKK&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

 

[K.M. Richards]

Translators have call letters that consist of the appropriate K or W, and a unique alphanumeric set of numbers and letters.

Specifically, the three digits in a FM translator correspond to its frequency by channel number; yes, FM has channel numbers, beginning with channel 201 at 88.1 MHz and continuing to channel 300 at 107.9 MHz. The letters are assigned in sequential order by date of the assignment of the construction permit.

Therefore, K262BB is west of the Mississippi (K), on 100.3 MHz (channel 262), and was the 28th translator granted on that frequency (BB).

Incidentally, if KWRP gives the translator ID every hour, they are going far beyond the FCC requirements. A translator normally only identifies with its originating station but must add its unique call sign three times a day ... once between 7:00am and 9:00am, once between 12:55pm and 1:05pm, and once between 4:00pm and 6:00pm. They can also transmit the ID in Morse Code once per hour to satisfy the rule.

One of the quirks of translators being allowed to rebroadcast AM stations is that they are allowed to originate programming on their own at night if their associated AM is a daytimer ... and during that period they still have to transmit the AM calls once an hour. Given what SRF pointed out in a subsequent post, I wonder if KWRP wouldn't be better off applying to change their status to daytime-only, since they're spending a lot more on electricity at night than in the day, for lesser coverage.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I think some of these posts the "pros" have posted above regarding krth101's question about losing your own favorite stations have been some of your best and most insightful posts. Thanks for sharing.

 

[TheBigA]

Let me ask the professionals from your own personal standpoint. Ratings, numbers and reasons aside - have you ever lost a station you loved? Have you ever felt somewhat betrayed? Strong but you get the point. A radio station you felt was special.

That's a silly question. EVERY radio station is something special, starting with the first station you heard as a kid. In my case it wasn't just one station but several. I was the kind of kid who slept with his radio. It was on all day and all night. So I've had MANY stations that were special to me, and most of them are gone. That hasn't stopped me from loving radio as a profession, or stopped me from listening to radio in general. But I don't think this thread is about a station, but about a particular era of music, and that's a very different thing. I was never wedded to a particular era of music. I realized very quickly that if I did, I would be type-cast, and I'd be out of radio once the format changed.

Imagine working for a station, building friendships and relationships, and one day the format changes and you're all out of work. Talk about feeling betrayed. But that's business. We've all been there, and had that experience at least once. In my case, I kept the right attitude, and was able to find work again quickly. I was even rehired once by a station that let me go. But no amount of complaining, even to the union, was going to change the fact that the format had changed, and I was out of work.

For those of us who work in radio, the primary motivation is love. You don't get into radio for money or fame. I learned that when I was a teenager at my first station. No money, and very little fame. But I was doing what I loved, and that's what mattered. I've used this analogy before: Radio stations can be like women. You love them when you're with them, and in ways you still love them when you split. But you keep your heart open, or you become bitter. I've worked at stations that no longer run the format they had when I was there. They are very different stations today. That doesn't change how I felt about them then. And I've happily moved on, and continue to have the same passion today.

 

[oldies76]

I've used this analogy before: Radio stations can be like women. You love them when you're with them, and in ways you still love them when you split. But you keep your heart open, or you become bitter. I've worked at stations that no longer run the format they had when I was there. They are very different stations today. That doesn't change how I felt about them then. And I've happily moved on, and continue to have the same passion today.

Yeah, the same would apply to me about KRTH and XETRA. Loved it 20-30 years back and inspired my music collection since then and still will play that nice K-Earth countdown every Labor Day to this day, but I can agree now, that time has moved on and they are just headed in a different direction. It's just the way it is.

Thanks to those explaining about the translator above.

 

[davideduardo]

Therefore, K262BB is west of the Mississippi (K), on 100.3 MHz (channel 262), and was the 28th translator granted on that frequency (BB).

I thought it was rather amusing that the FCC is using the lettering scheme for translators that it first used in 1922. Back then, WAAA, WAAB, WAAC and so on were the first calls issued until they decided to let some stations apply for more meaningful calls. A few of those early calls survive, like WBAA in W. Lafayette, IN.

While we are on the subject of call letters, it's worth mentioning the best call letter origin site on the web, http://nelson.oldradio.com/origins.html There are over 3500 call origins listed there! Bob Nelson does a wonderful job of maintaining the list.