Classic Rock: Evolve or Die!

[Carlos Santana's Guitar]

Oops...can Avid Listener be wrong?

I was on a panel on a TV show in 1969 interviewing one of the leading Top 40 program directors in Pittsburgh, Chuck Brinkman...at the time, we asked...why they had to clutter the Top 40 with so many non-rock songs, like "Candyman" by Sammy Davis, Jr.

You asked about top 40 radio playing Sammy Davis Jr's "Candyman?"

In 1969?

"Candyman" was written for the 1971 movie "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory." Sammy recorded it for his 1972 album "Sammy Davis Jr. Now." The song reached number one on June 10, 1972.

Or are you a prophet too?

 

[b-turner]

Part of the need to play some MOR material back in the late 1960s was to try to get some older listeners. Top 40 stations had strong news departments for that reason as well. Plainly put, top 40 was thought to be too young to be viable for many advertisers. In many markets there was just one, maybe 2 top 40 stations and likely a good dozen MORs after those ad dollars. As I recall, country had trouble too. I gathered the stereotype was they earned less and spent less.

Top 40 in markets where I lived (and I got to hear both McClendon's and Storz's flagship stations ... WHB and KLIF thanks to living in those cities) there was serious dayparting. When I got to hear the 9 to 3 daytime hours, the presentation was more relaxed, there were more oldies and hearing something you could call rock, even if it was #1, was not played.

 

[Avid Listener]

We've made adjustments in all formats at least five times during that period.

Minor tweaking isn't the same as keeping up with the times..

 

[b-turner]

Avid, would you share a few artists and songs you think would appeal to the classic rock listener? I'm not talking a sample hour or anything, just 3 or 4 so I can understand more about what you are talking about.

 

[semoochie]

Part of the need to play some MOR material back in the late 1960s was to try to get some older listeners. Top 40 stations had strong news departments for that reason as well. Plainly put, top 40 was thought to be too young to be viable for many advertisers. In many markets there was just one, maybe 2 top 40 stations and likely a good dozen MORs after those ad dollars. As I recall, country had trouble too. I gathered the stereotype was they earned less and spent less.

Top 40 in markets where I lived (and I got to hear both McClendon's and Storz's flagship stations ... WHB and KLIF thanks to living in those cities) there was serious dayparting. When I got to hear the 9 to 3 daytime hours, the presentation was more relaxed, there were more oldies and hearing something you could call rock, even if it was #1, was not played.

I understand that "Country" nearly died completely around 1959, when there were something like six stations programming it. This is just what I recall reading. I don't have any figures or even the right date.

 

[semoochie]

Put me down for "die off". Classic rock is "oldies" with more intense guitar riffs, and it will age out of the sales demos. But that does not mean it does not have 5-7 good years left.

Some of those stations will make noticable format shifts, and others will transform (or as BigA says, "evolve" into something else just as many oldies stations evolved into classic hits stations. Of course, this means, over time, an almost 100% different record library.

Do you think the 60s and early 70s cuts will be dropped before the whole format comes crashing down or left somewhat intact until the end? Would dropping those songs extend the life of the format? It seems like it would shorten the playlist, since they're already playing all the right songs.

 

[davideduardo]

Minor tweaking isn't the same as keeping up with the times..

"Minor tweaking" is the only way to refresh a radio station. Major changes startle existing listeners, and don't immediately attract new ones. So, while a non-radio person like yourself may not sense that any change is taking place, it is actually happening very gradually. This has the advantage of introducing older listeners to newer songs they may not be as familiar with while at the same time making the station continue to appeal to the older end of its target.

 

[Avid Listener]

You asked about top 40 radio playing Sammy Davis Jr's "Candyman?"

In 1969?

"Candyman" was written for the 1971 movie "Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory." Sammy recorded it for his 1972 album "Sammy Davis Jr. Now." The song reached number one on June 10, 1972.

Or are you a prophet too?

I said "like" Candyman. It was 1969. I remember asking about certain songs on the current Top 40 LIKE that song. I didn't take exact notes almost half a century ago so that I could recall every freakin' detail in the next century. I recalled the names of a few illustrative examples of songs from that approximate era. I should have known some pedantic a**hole would chime in with a snarky comment, and that the moderators, who claim to want less in the say of snarky comments, would approve such snarky bullsh!t from a non-registered lurker.

 

[Avid Listener]

Avid, would you share a few artists and songs you think would appeal to the classic rock listener? I'm not talking a sample hour or anything, just 3 or 4 so I can understand more about what you are talking about.

If a station has "Good Times, Bad Times" on their playlist, from Led Zeppelin's first album, then they could also play "Communication Breakdown" every now and then. If "Born to Run", from Springsteen's third album is on their playlist, they could also play "We Take Care of Our Own" from his recent "Wrecking Ball" album. If a station plays "Piece of My Heart" by Janis Joplin, then they should also be able to play "Paris, Ooh La La" by Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. If they play Blondie's "Heart of Glass", then they should also be able to play Within Temptation's "Sinead".

 

[JeffM]

I should have known some pedantic a**hole would chime in with a snarky comment, and that the moderators, who claim to want less in the say of snarky comments, would approve such snarky bullsh!t from a non-registered lurker.

You just can't stand it when somebody steals your act...

 

[TheBigA]

Minor tweaking isn't the same as keeping up with the times..

"Minor tweaking" are your words, not mine. You're using you're interpretation of what I said to say I'm wrong.

We've also launched quite a few entire new formats, as well as retired a few. Don't worry. We're keeping up with the times.

You're the one who is still harping about 1969, and wanting deep cuts from 40 year old records.

 

[Carlos Santana's Guitar]

I said "like" Candyman. It was 1969. I remember asking about certain songs on the current Top 40 LIKE that song. I didn't take exact notes almost half a century ago so that I could recall every freakin' detail in the next century. I recalled the names of a few illustrative examples of songs from that approximate era. I should have known some pedantic a**hole would chime in with a snarky comment, and that the moderators, who claim to want less in the say of snarky comments, would approve such snarky bullsh!t from a non-registered lurker.

Remember the exchange between you and Eduardo over Carlos Santana? I think pedantic bullsh!t described that too.

But you know what. That really doesn't matter. Here's what does. I'm going to ask something that has been hinted at but, to my knowledge, has never been directly asked.

What, Avid Listener, are you REALLY so angry about? What event or events, what pain in your life has left you so embittered, that you feel compelled to come to this website day after day, to constantly lash out against professionals, people of integrity, innocent people of good faith who only come here only to discuss an industry they love and respect?

Really. It can't be only about the music. Radio, music, it's not that important. It's just not worthy of all the rage you exhibit at radiodiscussions. There has to be something physically, emotionally, spiritual much, much deeper.

Please, tell us. What are you REALLY so angry about?

 

[Avid Listener]

Please, tell us. What are you REALLY so angry about?

Damn lurkers!

 

[frankberry]

This person is not a Lurker.
Lurkers read posts ... They do not write posts.
This person is a Guest.

 

[Carlos Santana's Guitar]

And now I'm a member.

So...how 'bout it?

What, Avid, are you REALLY so angry about?

 

[b-turner]

Thank you Avid for the song choices. I appreciate that.

Generally what I have found is the stations in the small markets can experiment more with formats. Specifically in the markets with few outside radio choices. Many times it is the more isolated stations where new ideas are honed. Sure some happen in the major markets but typically these are stations where every hole has been covered in the market, sometimes by more than one station. Unfortunately, many of the small market stations are plugged in to a satellite service for programming or have bought a music library from a company and operating on a computer, so the options are much fewer than in the past.

There are still stations in more unusual markets that do some interesting things. Jayson at KFAN, In Fredericksburg, Texas does a very Texas oriented format playing lots of local and regional artists, for example. There's several others that certainly break the barriers. Certainly the mindset of the market has much to do with it. Nearby KRVL in Kerrville is certainly not your typical classic rocker (called Rev FM). I am not sure these would work in a major city but the markets these stations are serving tend to be about as off center as these stations. With that said, is it the research showing this and if so, to what level, as small market stations seem to have slim research budgets. Then you have stations like KDRP doing an Americana/Roots format. This little LPFM has leased or purchased translators and now has coverage throughout Austin, Texas. In the ratings, last time, they pulled a .9 in the ratings. Not bad considering they're doing this with translators and their ratings are increasing. Austin is unquestionably the music capital of Texas.

I might add these two stations examples are doing just fine with income and seem to do well in the market (Kerrville and Fredericksburg are only 20 miles apart). KDRP has been at it a few years and likely has been heard in at least some of Austin for about 3 years. I don't know how they did it but they picked up a full power non-commercial FM as well (perhaps a separate non-profit that allows the LPFM non-profit to place programming on the signal...an LPFM can't own a full power but a full power can simulcast a LPFM and a LPFM can lease as many translators as they want but can only own two in a certain specified geographic area).

 

[TheBigA]

Generally what I have found is the stations in the small markets can experiment more with formats.

Of course you're right. But that's not what he wants. He wants what he wants when he wants it where he wants it where he wants it, and he wants it for free and on a big signal that he can pick up everywhere.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

But that's not what he wants. He wants what he wants when he wants it where he wants it where he wants it, and he wants it for free and on a big signal that he can pick up everywhere.

And that makes him different than the rest of us HOW????

tee-hee. I couldn't resist that one.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I understand that "Country" nearly died completely around 1959, when there were something like six stations programming it. This is just what I recall reading. I don't have any figures or even the right date.

Well, if Avid can post without verification of facts and claim it's the truth, I think you can as well.

Now I just need to figure out what that music was that I was playing at KBBQ in 1981 and KMYX in 1989.

 

[davideduardo]

Generally what I have found is the stations in the small markets can experiment more with formats. Specifically in the markets with few outside radio choices. Many times it is the more isolated stations where new ideas are honed.

That's a very good point.

In the context of this rock-related thread, it's interesting to remember that Lee Abrams' "Superstars" AOR format came out of Raleigh, NC. It was a big enough market to have a decent Arbitron sample but small enough to be "under the radar" while the format developed.

Of course, "Superstars" or its copies went on to kill or transform all but a very few of the free-form or progressive rockers that were the formats antecedents. If we consider the implication of that change, it was perhaps monumental. Progressive rock stations were predominantly free-form, had no real playlist, there were liberal "jock choice" options, and "music discovery" was a big part of the format going back to its origins in '67. Abrams tightened the list, disallowed most DJ choices and established very precise rotations. The success was so great in Raleigh that the approach rolled out nationally in just a few years.