Nash 947

[davideduardo]

The ratings demographics have nothing to do with the music we hear. You can target all you like and you don't get what you want as far as ratings. So they go over the top appealing to females or minority groups. Notice I particularly called out music and not talk or sports radio. I also doubt a station like WPLJ, WWFS or WNSH has only 15% female audience.

Stations look for a demographic position (combination of age, gender and ethnicity) that may allow them to achieve a salable result based on ratings. So the demos in the ratings are the principal driver for any station that wants to be in the top 20 stations in the market.

If corporations wanted to push Chinese music, they would promote it as being popular, put it on the airwaves and then receive the same ratings since that is all that is available for people to hear. They will ram it down peoples throats even if there are no ratings until it becomes mainstream.

Folks have dozens of stations to chose from as well as all kinds of new media offerings. If a station goes with all Mandarin songs, they will probably totally drop out of the ratings and the other stations in the market will increase proportionally.

You want to talk about 50 or over 55, well look at the CBS-FM's old man imaging. What generation do you think they are trying to appeal to with those DJ's and imaging. I like the 80s music and I am old guy but even I get turned off when I hear the old man imaging. That is for the 55-60+ year olds that remember and relate to that kind of sound.

Huh? WCBS-FM targets, principally, 35 to 54 year olds as that is a viable sales target. Yes, there is a large group of CBS-FM listeners over 55, but those listeners are not the target because there is no ad revenue to be achieved from getting those listeners.

You might also look at the CBS-FM playlist... the days of doo-wop and 60's songs are gone. They have moved the core target to 35-54.

 

[mikerock]

Stations look for a demographic position (combination of age, gender and ethnicity) that may allow them to achieve a salable result based on ratings. So the demos in the ratings are the principal driver for any station that wants to be in the top 20 stations in the market.



Folks have dozens of stations to chose from as well as all kinds of new media offerings. If a station goes with all Mandarin songs, they will probably totally drop out of the ratings and the other stations in the market will increase proportionally.

Of course if was just one station. When they do things like this it is not just one station. It is multiple radio stations in each market combined with other media properties. We would not have had hip hop or rap go mainstream if it were not for such a concerted effort pushing it on the part of media conglomerates like Viacom-MTV Networks and corporate radio.

Huh? WCBS-FM targets, principally, 35 to 54 year olds as that is a viable sales target. Yes, there is a large group of CBS-FM listeners over 55, but those listeners are not the target because there is no ad revenue to be achieved from getting those listeners.

You might also look at the CBS-FM playlist... the days of doo-wop and 60's songs are gone. They have moved the core target to 35-54.

I fall into the 35-54 group and like the 80s music but the imaging reminds me of the 50s-70s format CBS-FM had in the 80s. It also sounds like Music Radio 77 from the 70s. I liked Cousin Brucie and that stuff where it belonged as a kid in the 70s but it does not match the current genre being played on CBS-FM. You did not hear that kind of imaging in the 80s on rock radio or Top 40 radio in NYC and in fact stations went out of their way NOT to sound like that in the 80s.

It was dated in the 80s. It was so dated even back then I remember Howard Stern doing bits making fun of it.

What are they thinking? Like you said 35-54 is their principal sales target and this imaging is 55+.

 

[TheBigA]

We would not have had hip hop or rap go mainstream if it were not for such a concerted effort pushing it on the part of media conglomerates like Viacom-MTV Networks and corporate radio.

I don't know about that. I know a few hip hop artists, and I'm pretty sure the success of that music happened before it got airplay. It was more like radio grabbing on to something that was already a hit with a marketable audience than the other way around. My friends who make this music were doing very well and the music had reached mainstream status without the big media conglomerates. It didn't hurt when MTV picked up on "Walk This Way" by Aerosmith & Run DMC. But believe me, the music had more to do with its success than media.

 

[davideduardo]

Of course if was just one station. When they do things like this it is not just one station. It is multiple radio stations in each market combined with other media properties. We would not have had hip hop or rap go mainstream if it were not for such a concerted effort pushing it on the part of media conglomerates like Viacom-MTV Networks and corporate radio.

There was no corporate incentive to add rap, later, hip hop songs. They were added because a few became popular and more and more started being produced. In other words, a similar effect to what happened in the mid-70's with disco or the mid-60's with Motown. In the case of hip hop, the genre did not decline or die but just got broader in appeal.

Radio picked up on the interest in rap and hip hop and programmed the songs appropriate for each format... ranging from none to a majority depending on the brand. Even the Spanish language stations have been widely impacted by the popularity of reggaetón, the rhythmic adaptation of tropical and hip hop, to the extent that the contemporary stations all across Latin America are dominated by the genre.

Radio's interest is in keeping up with trends. From "Rapper's Delight" 35 years ago to Pitbull, stations will play the songs that their listeners want to hear. There is no hidden agenda in reflecting trends.

I fall into the 35-54 group and like the 80s music but the imaging reminds me of the 50s-70s format CBS-FM had in the 80s.

What are they thinking? Like you said 35-54 is their principal sales target and this imaging is 55+.

The obvious answer is "it works" and I believe it sets the station apàrt from others by creating a different atmosphere.

 

[Groove1670]

[/QUOTE]to me that's the wrong headed way of looking at it...its not about crossover its about kick ass music. and none of the artists you mentioned are kick ass. its a huge hole in the market for someone to fill [/QUOTE]

It you are 18-34 or 25-54 and female those songs are kick ass.

 

[Groove1670]

Not true - Z100 would be playing them all cause they were all top 10.

For example a chart from 10 yrs ago june 2005 had in the top 10 songs by:

50 cent, mariah carey, kelly clarkson, ***** cat dolls, black eyes peas, will smith, ciara, gwen stefani, 3 doors down, papa roach.

Thats a very eclectic list & Z100 played all those songs.

You proved my point. All the songs you listed were turbo pop or had a rock lean.

I don't know what Z100 is doing now but several stations are testing crossover songs. See the latest column from Sean Ross. NASH FM in NYC is doing it now.

I doubt that Carrie Underwood or John Legend (for example) would of made the Z100 chart back then.

 

[mikerock]

I don't know about that. I know a few hip hop artists, and I'm pretty sure the success of that music happened before it got airplay. It was more like radio grabbing on to something that was already a hit with a marketable audience than the other way around. My friends who make this music were doing very well and the music had reached mainstream status without the big media conglomerates. It didn't hurt when MTV picked up on "Walk This Way" by Aerosmith & Run DMC. But believe me, the music had more to do with its success than media.

There was no corporate incentive to add rap, later, hip hop songs. They were added because a few became popular and more and more started being produced. In other words, a similar effect to what happened in the mid-70's with disco or the mid-60's with Motown. In the case of hip hop, the genre did not decline or die but just got broader in appeal.

Radio picked up on the interest in rap and hip hop and programmed the songs appropriate for each format... ranging from none to a majority depending on the brand. Even the Spanish language stations have been widely impacted by the popularity of reggaetón, the rhythmic adaptation of tropical and hip hop, to the extent that the contemporary stations all across Latin America are dominated by the genre.

Radio's interest is in keeping up with trends. From "Rapper's Delight" 35 years ago to Pitbull, stations will play the songs that their listeners want to hear. There is no hidden agenda in reflecting trends.

There is allot of great talent out there for those genres for sure but I lived through the period where people were like what happened to rock and they are ramming this new harder stuff down our throats in place of it. It took a few years for Viacom-MTV Networks and corporate radio pushing it before it became mainstream. Today we have all these feminized music formats and no one is willing to take that sort of risk including NASH.

The obvious answer is "it works" and I believe it sets the station apàrt from others by creating a different atmosphere

It works because people have no other choice but to put up with it since they are accustomed to the CBS-FM unique playlist. I am guessing it would be difficult to know for sure in research how many people like myself tune out when they hear the embarrassingly dated imaging.

 

[TheBigA]

There is allot of great talent out there for those genres for sure but I lived through the period where people were like what happened to rock and they are ramming this new harder stuff down our throats in place of it.

You & I see things very differently. What happened to rock is it splintered into a hundred different subgenres each with its own fan base that only wants to hear that sub-genre, not rock as a whole. New York rock radio at the time completely missed grunge. An entire subgenre that never got much airplay in New York, because the stations were still focused on the 80s. K-Rock was into the harder stuff because that's what Howard Stern wanted to play. It had nothing to do with anyone else. It was Howard's music, and he pushed it on the rest of the station. If you liked Howard, then you probably liked his music. That was the thinking. But the bottom line is that rock went into so many different directions that no single station could deal with it, and there aren't enough OTA stations to handle all of the genres (over 100 Grammy categories) that people like.

 

[mikerock]

You & I see things very differently. What happened to rock is it splintered into a hundred different subgenres each with its own fan base that only wants to hear that sub-genre, not rock as a whole. New York rock radio at the time completely missed grunge. An entire subgenre that never got much airplay in New York, because the stations were still focused on the 80s. K-Rock was into the harder stuff because that's what Howard Stern wanted to play. It had nothing to do with anyone else. It was Howard's music, and he pushed it on the rest of the station. If you liked Howard, then you probably liked his music. That was the thinking. But the bottom line is that rock went into so many different directions that no single station could deal with it, and there aren't enough OTA stations to handle all of the genres (over 100 Grammy categories) that people like.

I agree there was some splintering but stations sticking to classic rock is also what killed rock by failing to bring anything new to the table. Before the switch to classic rock q104.3 I thought did a good job as a new rock station even if it was called alternative.

Today 107.1 The Peak does a great job of covering, old and new. I believe NASH would be a better country station if they did something along the same lines with country. I am not opposed to them staying all new country as long as they man up a bit.

 

[davideduardo]

T It took a few years for Viacom-MTV Networks and corporate radio pushing it before it became mainstream.

It's exactly the opposite. The music did not get wide play until it became acceptable to the core of MTV and CHR stations. The music came out of the Urban and rhythmic radio sector, and literally exploded into mainstream. At that point, the general market radio stations began adding rap to the playlists; as that proved successful, they added more.

 

[davideduardo]

I agree there was some splintering but stations sticking to classic rock is also what killed rock by failing to bring anything new to the table.

As BigA says, there was nothing broad enough in appeal to generate the audience size needed by a major, full-signal station.

 

[TheBigA]

I am not opposed to them staying all new country as long as they man up a bit.

Country hasn't been a male format in 30 years. Blame Randy Travis.

 

[mikerock]

It's exactly the opposite. The music did not get wide play until it became acceptable to the core of MTV and CHR stations. The music came out of the Urban and rhythmic radio sector, and literally exploded into mainstream. At that point, the general market radio stations began adding rap to the playlists; as that proved successful, they added more.

As BigA says, there was nothing broad enough in appeal to generate the audience size needed by a major, full-signal station.

I disagree, it was a hurdle to make hip hop and rap have broad appeal. It was a niche, people had no where else to go so it became more than that, they became accustomed to it and eventually it became mainstream. You are perpetuating a myth that popular music in a sector makes it the airwaves. You can have artists selling out concerts but if they do not fit corporate radios roadmap then they will not get airtime.

I remember that period well like allot of other people and it was like what is this urban stuff they are forcing on us. They tried and tried until it stuck. The handwriting was on the wall. It was clear that is all they are going to give us on corporate radio and nothing new from any of the rock genres, so of course it was going to take off.

Country hasn't been a male format in 30 years. Blame Randy Travis.

The music is there they just won't play it. Viacom MTVN destroyed rock by removing it from their properties and then gutted country after they got a hold of the CMT/TNN properties from CBS Cable.

Country is now a feminized pop format and new Bluegrass is more like old country. They even have country artists that sample rap, hip-hop and emulate the artists moves. Anything but keeping the format country just so they can hopefully get better demos in the ratings.

 

[davideduardo]

I disagree, it was a hurdle to make hip hop and rap have broad appeal. It was a niche, people had no where else to go so it became more than that, they became accustomed to it and eventually it became mainstream.

The crossover happened when stations like Hot, Power 96 in Miami, Power 106 in LA and B-96 in Chicago started playing rap and then hip hop. Those, and quite a number of other stations, are rhythmic CHRs that depend on Hispanics and non-Hispanic whites as much as African Americans for audience. Those stations found huge acceptance for the music. Mainstream CHRs in those markets knew that such stations reflected the street and club scene and began adding songs too.

There was no hurdle. When big-market stations did weekly call-out found that those titles worked, they became more receptive to additional songs.

Stations don't play songs that listeners reject. If a song has high negatives after 100 or so spins, it's gone. So stations, corporate or not, did no keep on playing rap and hip hop as in every market there was a station playing less of that music listeners could go to. But the opposite happened... the mainstream CHRs in those markets were losing listening to the rhythmic stations, so they added some of the same songs because listeners would not stay around otherwise.

I remember that period well like allot of other people and it was like what is this urban stuff they are forcing on us. They tried and tried until it stuck.

That may be your case, but the bulk of the CHR audience responded well to the rhythmic material. CHR format numbers increased. And, interestingly, hip hop became the point of differentiation between CHR and Hot AC stations... another category that also increased as more interest in current contemporary music grew.

At the same time, interest in rock by 12-24 and now, 25-34 declined (see the decennial Edison Research "Youth Market" studies on music interests nationally).

The handwriting was on the wall. It was clear that is all they are going to give us on corporate radio and nothing new from any of the rock genres, so of course it was going to take off.

It "took off" on its own. Radio picked up on a groundswell of interest in hip hop and a definite decline in interest in anything rock in the younger demos. CHR, or "Top 40" as it was previously called, reflect whatever is popular. In the last two decades or so, that has been rhythmic music, not rock.

The music is there they just won't play it.

And that is because the listeners for the most part don't want it. If you are a PD and rock track after rock track tanks in research, you start being very cautious about adding any rock leaning cuts.

Viacom MTVN destroyed rock by removing it from their properties and then gutted country after they got a hold of the CMT/TNN properties from CBS Cable.

The cable video nets had a bigger issue, which was the decline in interest in all-music-video programming. MTV, VH1 and the country nets all went to variety programming and things like Jersey Shore. In any case, we are talking about radio and MTV and CMT et. al. are not radio.

Anything but keeping the format country just so they can hopefully get better demos in the ratings.

More like "anything that will sell CDs and downloads and get people to my concerts". You are judging very broad parts of the population based on your own tastes which, unfortunately for you, don't offer opportunities to radio stations.

 

[TGunn]

Are you a lawyer? You sound like one. I am just stating what was said too me by someone who was PD of a cluster in a market I was considering moving too. We were talking about station sponsored concerts with artists with current music. The artists are obligated to do these concerts for airplay. And they don't like it. Wasn't all this investigated before? What is this called if it's not payola? The hip hop artist I mentioned actually did go to Sirius and got airplay. Her picture was in some trade magazine I remember seeing. I have no idea where else she could have gotten airplay, as I moved from NJ to Philly. I am not sure what the Country record promoter meant other than he had to shell out alot to get an artist played..

 

[TheBigA]

I disagree, it was a hurdle to make hip hop and rap have broad appeal.

Not with the audience. This was a genre driven by the people, not by corporations. I promise you that corporations are still very afraid of hip hop and rap because of language, violence, and everything else. But that's actually what drove its popularity, especially among young white males. They are what made it mainstream. A lot of what they like, even now, can't get airplay because of the language and violence. FCC rules prevent radio from playing it. So they listen on their own devices.

The music is there they just won't play it. Viacom MTVN destroyed rock by removing it from their properties and then gutted country after they got a hold of the CMT/TNN properties from CBS Cable.

That statement doesn't fit the timeline. As I said, the format became more female in the 80s, driven by cute male artists like Randy Travis. Viacom didn't get CMT until 1997. And the changes they made in 1997 were more about aiming at younger audiences, so they could sell it to the same sponsors as MTV, than women. And country radio NEVER followed CMT into this drive for younger audiences. Country radio has always been 25 to 54. CMT is 18 to 34.

Country is now a feminized pop format and new Bluegrass is more like old country. They even have country artists that sample rap, hip-hop and emulate the artists moves. Anything but keeping the format country just so they can hopefully get better demos in the ratings.

As I said, this isn't a recent development. It sounds like you don't know the format. Bluegrass was always a separate genre, invented by Bill Monroe to be more instrumental than vocal. So it's always been a niche genre.

Country artists sample rap and emulate the artist moves because the audience knows that music. That's why Nash is playing some pop. Once again, it's being driven by what the audience wants, and that's why artists who incorporate rap, like Luke Bryan and Jason Aldean, are the most popular stars. If you go to a country concert, you'll see this is all being driven by the audience. Radio is simply following them.

One more thing: Media companies are not in the music business. We have no interest in promoting certain kinds of music other than it attracts an audience that we can sell to advertisers. That's our only motivation. If bluegrass attracted a mass audience, we'd love to play it. But it doesn't, so we don't.

 

[TheBigA]

The artists are obligated to do these concerts for airplay. And they don't like it.

If you look at the names of the artists who do these concerts, they aren't getting airplay. Most of them are new artists, looking for exposure. The artists do these concerts because they want to reach the station's audience, and this is in lieu of airplay. The labels must sign waivers saying that they will not get airplay in exchange for doing these concerts. It's all very legal. No major corporation wants to risk its radio license for a free concert. That simply makes no financial sense.

BTW, payola laws only apply to broadcasting, not satellite. So it's possible that payola exists at Sirius.

 

[dcowboy7]

You proved my point. All the songs you listed were turbo pop or had a rock lean.

I don't know what Z100 is doing now but several stations are testing crossover songs. See the latest column from Sean Ross. NASH FM in NYC is doing it now.

I doubt that Carrie Underwood or John Legend (for example) would of made the Z100 chart back then.

Youre wrong.

In 2006 carrie had a country hit "before he cheats" that Z100 played too cause it was a pop hit as well & again as i said Z100 plays all the billboard top 10 hits just like they do today so im not sure why you are saying nobody played all the hits.

Also the fact you say you dont know what Z100 is playing now means you really dont know what youre talking about anyway.

 

[TheBigA]

In 2006 carrie had a country hit "before he cheats" that Z100 played too cause it was a pop hit as well

At the time, New York didn't have a country station. Carrie was well known outside of country because she won Idol. So that song got airplay on some pop and AC stations, but only reached #8 on the Billboard Hot 100. This was her only cross-format hit.

 

[dcowboy7]

If you look at the names of the artists who do these concerts, they aren't getting airplay.

Your wrong.

NASH just did their nash bash concert featuring cole swindell whos 1st single hit #2, 2nd hit #1 & now his 3rd just hit #1 too.