No wonder all those used 45's from the 50's and 60's sound so horribly!
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KPWR playlist unreal
- Thread starter 32james
- Start date
No wonder all those used 45's from the 50's and 60's sound so horribly!
Sure go ahead man, see how many listeners tune you out to high heaven..... We're should I go to take a hike? San Bernardino National Forest? Mt. San Jacinto? I'll take any suggestions...
They don't, but they deal with it knowing that another top 40 they like hit is just three minutes away.
From my experience the larger the station, the greater the risk. Thus, any risk is so carefully calculated to virtually guarantee success and certainly not any level of failure. In this case, I think KPWR is doing something they know will help them and at worst not improve things at all.
The format's listeners are pretty fickle (at least in the past) and tend to have a few stations they frequently listen to. For one, the increase in stations on the dial and now other sources aside from personal music libraries, has certainly led to shorter times spent listening in one session. The winning station might have a listener only a few minutes at a time but that listener might be back many times a day, spending maybe 4 or 5 hours a week with one station with a perfectly tuned format and still be doing quite nicely at 3 to 3.5 hours a week.
That leads me to support the idea of very short playlists. I think hit oriented stations might see even smaller playlists in the future, especially in the more competitive large markets.
On a related note, I knew of a station that only played the lowest burning, most across the board mass appeal songs. They played no currents. Most songs were within the previous 10 years (this was 1977). The songs repeated in under 8 hours. The jock could dig a little in the stack of carts so songs would not repeat in order. The station had just launched and for about 18 months ran this rotation. The jock I knew thought the owner of the small market upstart was just a cheapskate but the owner's thinking was the way to win listeners was to always be playing a song the listener loved, knew, was not tired of and could sing along with. The format was music intensive: 90 seconds of network news, 30 seconds for weather and a maximum of 6 minutes an hour for commercials. Jocks could only back announce songs and little else. By the way, the station did quite well. You'd hear it playing in stores and offices throughout town.
I remember it because it was so far from the normal station as far as the music library went. They had a top 40 FM, a full service AC AM and a Country AM in the town so they nailed the soft rock side as most songs were pretty AC during a time top 40 was heavily AC.
Just before 'Hot Hits' happened when Michael Joseph tossed top 40 on its ear, a top 40 I knew of played only the top 10. 6am to 7pm they did 60% oldies from the prior decade or so & recurrents, 40% were top 10 hits. That meant the top ten repeated about every hour and 45 minutes during the day. From 7 to 10 in the evening they only played the top 10...about every 40 minutes for a rotation, then were 25% recurrents after 10pm extending the rotation to about a song shy of 1 hour. It worked well for them. They supplemented this with at least a couple of contests or giveaways an hour and caller could dedicate songs in the 7 to 10 evening hours. Being a fairly small city the giveaways were usually movie tickets and fast food meals. If I recall that was around 1980.
The format's listeners are pretty fickle (at least in the past) and tend to have a few stations they frequently listen to. For one, the increase in stations on the dial and now other sources aside from personal music libraries, has certainly led to shorter times spent listening in one session. The winning station might have a listener only a few minutes at a time but that listener might be back many times a day, spending maybe 4 or 5 hours a week with one station with a perfectly tuned format and still be doing quite nicely at 3 to 3.5 hours a week.
That leads me to support the idea of very short playlists. I think hit oriented stations might see even smaller playlists in the future, especially in the more competitive large markets.
On a related note, I knew of a station that only played the lowest burning, most across the board mass appeal songs. They played no currents. Most songs were within the previous 10 years (this was 1977). The songs repeated in under 8 hours. The jock could dig a little in the stack of carts so songs would not repeat in order. The station had just launched and for about 18 months ran this rotation. The jock I knew thought the owner of the small market upstart was just a cheapskate but the owner's thinking was the way to win listeners was to always be playing a song the listener loved, knew, was not tired of and could sing along with. The format was music intensive: 90 seconds of network news, 30 seconds for weather and a maximum of 6 minutes an hour for commercials. Jocks could only back announce songs and little else. By the way, the station did quite well. You'd hear it playing in stores and offices throughout town.
I remember it because it was so far from the normal station as far as the music library went. They had a top 40 FM, a full service AC AM and a Country AM in the town so they nailed the soft rock side as most songs were pretty AC during a time top 40 was heavily AC.
Just before 'Hot Hits' happened when Michael Joseph tossed top 40 on its ear, a top 40 I knew of played only the top 10. 6am to 7pm they did 60% oldies from the prior decade or so & recurrents, 40% were top 10 hits. That meant the top ten repeated about every hour and 45 minutes during the day. From 7 to 10 in the evening they only played the top 10...about every 40 minutes for a rotation, then were 25% recurrents after 10pm extending the rotation to about a song shy of 1 hour. It worked well for them. They supplemented this with at least a couple of contests or giveaways an hour and caller could dedicate songs in the 7 to 10 evening hours. Being a fairly small city the giveaways were usually movie tickets and fast food meals. If I recall that was around 1980.
T
Thomps2525
Guest
Ah, I see that BigA is a fan of President Rutherford B. Hayes. When KPWR went on the air in 1986, it quickly became my favorite station. I listened a lot and I made a lot of airchecks. In the '90s when more and more rap and hip-hop songs were added to the playlist, I listened less and less. I haven't listened to KPWR since around 1995. If they want to play a certain song four of five times an hour, that's fine. I don't care. I just wonder why any station would do that. Is there a logical reason? Does the station benefit? Do the ratings improve? And what would Rutherford B. Hayes think?
Yes, yes, yes, and he's dead. It's obviously not an accident. It's being done on purpose.
Here's what I've learned: There's no point worrying about things that don't matter to you. If you don't listen, then why worry? Instead of Rutherford B. Hayes, think of Alfred E. Neuman.
Here is a hard hitting fact.
In 1983 KKHR 93.1 FM adopted a top 40 format, KKHR, was not a traditional top 40 music format station of the time, as the play list was more stringent limited to 30 songs
In 1986 the top 40 format ran it's course, likely due to lackluster ratings.
See history
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCBS-FM
In 1983 KKHR 93.1 FM adopted a top 40 format, KKHR, was not a traditional top 40 music format station of the time, as the play list was more stringent limited to 30 songs
In 1986 the top 40 format ran it's course, likely due to lackluster ratings.
See history
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KCBS-FM
The real problem KPWR has right now is replacing its popular morning show. Because of the way it was handled, with the company suing the talent, they hurt their image.
So while a handful of people seem to be focused on playlist repetition, the real listeners to the station are more concerned with their favorite morning show.
So while a handful of people seem to be focused on playlist repetition, the real listeners to the station are more concerned with their favorite morning show.
To err is human.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
The biggest reason "Hitradio 93" failed to attract listeners is that they were up against KIIS-FM, which was giving away a Porsche 944 with $10,000 in the glovebox every Friday. CBS didn't get into the "big prize" game until the fall of 1985, and by then it was too late ... even then it was "only" a Nissan 300-ZX, not a Porsche, although they did match the $10,000 in the glovebox. KIIS killed all challengers during the 1980s with its big spending and Rick Dees -- notably KIQQ, which ended up going "light rock" a few years later.
Don't blame the music for KKHR's demise. It was the most uptempo CHR ever, with flamethrower air talent like Jack Armstrong, and a playlist which was deliberately devoid of downtempo songs. I liked it even more than I had Ten-Q in the 1970s.
There's some hard-hitting facts for ya, James.
K
K.M. Richards
Guest
I was going to say you keep proving that with your comments, but thought better of it.
In the meantime, KPWR is giving away:
WIN EVERY HOUR on POWER 106 (10a-8p) 2 tickets to see Kanye West | Ludacris | Kid Ink | B.o.B. | Ty Dolla $ign | Nipsey Hussle | Tinashe | G-Eazy | Tech N9ne | Logic & Casey Veggies going down Saturday, May 16th 2015 at The Honda Center in Anaheim. . At the start of each hour, we’ll give you the song of the hour to listen for. When you hear it, text the keyword POWER to 69106. The 1006th texter wins!
Guess what the song of the hour is.
WIN EVERY HOUR on POWER 106 (10a-8p) 2 tickets to see Kanye West | Ludacris | Kid Ink | B.o.B. | Ty Dolla $ign | Nipsey Hussle | Tinashe | G-Eazy | Tech N9ne | Logic & Casey Veggies going down Saturday, May 16th 2015 at The Honda Center in Anaheim. . At the start of each hour, we’ll give you the song of the hour to listen for. When you hear it, text the keyword POWER to 69106. The 1006th texter wins!
Guess what the song of the hour is.
"Achy Breaky Heart"
Alfred legally changed his name to Lou Dickey.
Bingo. In the PPM, the average listening time per incident is about 13 minutes.
You are equating "at work" listening with "office listening".
At work listeners can range from the driver of a delivery truck to the guy in a parking lot booth. They can listen to a loud, up-tempo station without bothering anyone.
Office listening tends to be things like oldies, AC, Soft AC, Urban AC and such. But most Americans don't work in offices.
Coming around with weak theories disguised as "hard hitting facts" isn't helping the thread or your rep. Even in CHR, only a small % of the audience actively participates in the contests, although they have been shown to increase ratings. And even then KIIS only did the cash and Porsche thing for a specific period of time, not the entire duration of KKHR's existence. If the music mix and air talent was so much better on KKHR they would have actively competed with KIIS just as AMP does now. That you liked the station because of its limited up-tempo playlist is not persuasive either.
Another reason is that he owned the song and probably collected royalties on it. McLendon, in partnership with actor Ken Curtis (yup, ol' Festus) produced a couple ultra-cheapo horror flicks, "The Giant Gila Monster" (from whence it cometh) and "The Killer Shrews" (not sure if there's a "Love Theme From The Killer Shrews" out there someplace.)
Lacking a zillionaire owner who dabbled in movie making, one local station when I was a kid "stunted" for days playing an endless loop of a novelty song "Teterboro Tower" by Arthur Godfrey, "Walkin' My Baby Back Home" by Johnnie Ray, and (I think) something by David Seville, over and over for a week or more before switching to a beautiful-music format...which tanked.
It bugs me worse when I hear the same commercial twice within one 5-minute newscast (usually "Maxwell the Pig") or spots in local shows for stores and restaurants that don't have a location within 200 miles of here.
Well, let's start at the beginning, 32james:
"Not a traditional Top 40 music format station of the time, as the playlist was more stringent limited to 30 songs"?
A 30-song playlist had become pretty much standard since KHJ debuted in May, 1965...18 years before KKHR. KHJ (as sources far better than Wikipedia will tell you), swiftly knocked KRLA and its 50-song playlist off the top of the ratings...and pushed #3 KFWB and its 40-song playlist down to 6th. In less than three years, KFWB would flip formats to all-news. That WAS due to lackluster ratings.
The only stations to successfully ward off or knock off a challenge from KHJ's sister stations (also with 30-song playlists) were KCBQ, San Diego, which played 22 songs to KGB's 30, and WABC, New York, which played as few as 20 to WOR-FM's 30.
Back to the situation in question:
KKHR's playlist was 35 songs for most of its run. KIIS-FM's was 40, but the two stations had different approaches to charting new music, so the actual number of songs in their current playlist was equal, give or take a song or two either way.
The differences? Promotion...not just the cars and cash, as K.M. notes, but billboard and busboards. At one point, it seemed like every RTD bus in Southern California had Rick Dees' photo on it. KIIS' GM, Wally Clark, got Gannett to commit to 30% of the budget going to promotion for the length of his contract. So as revenues increased and budgets went up, each year, KIIS promoted more.
And then there was the issue of a high-profile morning show. You really couldn't win without it. And no disrespect to Lou Simon, but he wasn't a high-profile act the way Rick Dees was.
Finally, KKHR was not a ratings disaster by any means. For most of its run, it was in the Top 10. But there's a difference between 7th place with a 3 and first with a 10. What forced the format change was the arrival of KPWR, which sucked most of the air out of the room. And Emmis came in with a serious promotion budget and a high-profile morning act (Jay Thomas).
Those, 32james, are the hard-hitting facts. So, if your intent was to use KKHR as a cautionary tale regarding KPWR's current stunt, you're using the wrong example.
(duplicate post)
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