EMF Files For License to Cover for Conroe's Air-1 Translator

[purpledevil]

Educational Media Foundation filed for a License to Cover for K237FS Conroe to relay 103-7 KHJK "Air-1" La Porte/Houston with a better in county signal on Monday. I'm unable to pick up K237FS OTA this far south of the site. Can anyone on the boards confirm that 95-3 is live from Conroe?

http://fccdata.org/?facid=148663

 

[b-turner]

Seems to be the exact opposite. It seems illogical to me but maybe an engineer can explain how KTTF's 9 watts is killing this translator at places where the new translator should be wiping out the Tomball LPFM. It's sort of like the Magnolia LPFM winning out over KCYB-LP in Cypress a couple of miles from their tower. I'm no engineer but have been in radio a long time and I just don't get why this is happening, not just here or there but daily. I'd love to learn why this happens. The Longley Rice says it isn't so. Just curious.

 

[Unknowable]

I'm no engineer either but I suspect someone may be operating at higher power levels than usual.

 

[purpledevil]

I'm no engineer either but I suspect someone may be operating at higher power levels than usual.

I don't buy that. KYBY-LP has nothing to gain and everything to lose by throwing out more power than they are authorized to use. Add to that, they have the aforementioned KTTF-LP simulcasting "Backyard Radio", which extends their community programming over more population, and the risks involved quickly outweigh the rewards they might possibly get from cranking out too much ERP. I'm sure the conspiracy types will say that KTTF-LP and KYBY-LP are running together, and both signals perform better than they were expected to, so of course they are doing something wrong. I have myreservations about casting stones in Magnolia's/Tomball's direction. Like Bill, I'd certainly be interested in knowing how it is that the both of them do so well, yet others like KCYB-LP and KOYM-LP struggle to get just a few miles out.

One question though, doesn't K237FS have to operate at 50% ERP for a certain amount of time, before it broadcasts at full power? Perhaps that would be an explanation as to why this current situation is occurring with KTTF-LP overtaking K237FS in spots you wouldn't think it could.

Edit to add: thanks, Bill, for the confirmation of K237FS. Please excuse my temporsry lapse in manners.

 

[Mediafrog+]

I'd certainly be interested in knowing how it is that the both of them do so well, yet others like KCYB-LP and KOYM-LP struggle to get just a few miles out.

KCYB must have made further changes to their antenna after the move to the current site. Signal is weaker than it used to be at my Cy-Fair location. And yes, KYBY causes headaches along 249 and 1960 in the Willowbrook area.

KOYM is simply clobbered by a strong KVST. The stations are too close together, despite what the separation rules say. Sometimes the real world wins out over the theoretical world.

 

[b-turner]

I sure can't say and don't want to imply anything but I was on 290/6 one day, driving toward Hempstead, right by the KCYB tower. I was getting a stereo signal on the radio, assuming I was listening to KCYB only to find out when they did a break that it was KYBY with me having a visual of the KCYB tower at that moment. I later learned KCYB was off the air a few minutes, just as I was driving by. I thought it strange I got a clear signal in stereo so many miles away from KYBY. I worked at a class A that would have been pleased with that. Not being an engineer, it seemed odd to me.

Also, I don't get why KTTF comes in so good here when KCYB was once there on the same tower at about the same power and HAAT but rather weak at my place. I know there are many things that can be in play, but I also know KCYB had some seasoned engineers that fine tuned the signal to be all it could be, so I think we can say it was not because KCYB's signal was not optimized.

I'm not saying either are overpowering or doing anything they shouldn't be. I'm just curious why this is.

Then again, driving in central Kansas, I got a skip of an FM station in Key West, Florida about 10-15 minutes or more. It was a class A with several other stations at the same dial position between my location and Key West. I had an AM/FM Mini Disc Recorder in my car back then and plopped in a mini disc and hit record because I knew nobody was going to believe that. After it faded, I hit scan on the FM radio and caught 93Q (KKBQ) on that lonely highway between Dodge City, Kansas about half way to I-70. In each case, it was a one-time thing.

I think I am about to learn something new. I was not aware the new K237FS had to run half power for a certain length of time before going to full power. Then again I have not read up on translator rules. I had not ever heard of this. I think most would 'test' at low power until they're sure everything is done right. I have always assumed once you got your license, you had to have the station operating at full power as shown on the license and have tested it to prove there are no issues.

Any engineers out there that might want to chime in?

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Most of the time, it is KBPA that brutalizes KCYB in my location. There are several places during my normal commute that KCYB is weak and KBPA pops right in, and not just during the morning skip hours. Certainly, anywhere south of I-10 on 99, KBPA becomes more and more than a match for KCYB, dominating the frequency by the time you get to 59.

They do better now than they did on 101.7 by a large margin, but they are still getting stepped on by a nearby monster signal. With the FCC making stupid allotments like 93.7 in Houston and in Austin, I think KCYB should file for a massive upgrade. They might just get it.

 

[b-turner]

KCYB is a LPFM and thus limited to 100 watts at 30 meters or a coverage area equal to that when power and height above average terrain is concerned. They are already all they can be.

I can easily see KBPA killing KCYB at I-10 and 99. My point is KYBY should not be challenging KCYB at 290 and 99 where you can see the KCYB tower. And it shouldn't be a stereo signal that far from Magnolia based on my very limited knowledge.

 

[purpledevil]

Makes me wonder if KYBY-LP isn't somewhat directional. I can hear a weak KTTF-LP in Greenspoint, and all around the 1960/45 area, but even up near Rayford/Sawdust, KYBY-LP just barely squeaks in to the truck's receiver. Even at the Waterway in The Woodlands, KYBY-LP isn't all that strong. You'd think it would at least be blasting into The Woodlands if it's getting that kind of signal into Cypress and Hockley. It's supposed to be non directional, but maybe something isn't set up right. Just thinking aloud here.

Heh, maybe Backyard Radio is trying to push ol' Jim off of the co-channel, I mean, they did apply and get granted for it first.

 

[First Fone 65]

Magnolia seems to have antenna problems, they have two BKG77 antennas mounted directly on the legs of their three leg self supporting tower, which means with sloped legs the antennas can not in perfect vertical alignment, According to engineer at NiCOM the antenna manufacture, if not properly aligned the antennas will have some what of a spoked pattern with strong peaks and broad deep nulls and could be some what directional too, KCYB covers up KYBY in Tomball up to Decker prairie and at times into Pine Hurst, according to Longley Rice map, it shows KCYB coverage not even making it to Tomball much less Decker Prairie, KCYBs antenna was pointed SW when it was at Rosehill tower toward Cypress, KTTFs is pointed NE toward Tomball and The antenna has a 3db loss off the back of the antenna. I hate to burst Your bubble but KTTF is running 9 watts Horiz and 9 Watts vertical for 18 watts total, now KCYB is 100 ft lower on a cell tower with a lot of cell antennas and brackets which can distort the antenna pattern. and their signal always seemed to get much stronger on Saturday night when they were on 101.7. probably Sun Spots ?

 

[First Fone 65]

KCYBs antenna is 100 ft lower after the move to the Cypress, and their antenna is pointed in a different direction, if You are off the back of their antenna the power in Your direction will be one half. or 3DB less.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I can easily see KBPA killing KCYB at I-10 and 99. My point is KYBY should not be challenging KCYB at 290 and 99 where you can see the KCYB tower. And it shouldn't be a stereo signal that far from Magnolia based on my very limited knowledge.

I am pretty far down Fry and can't see the tower - so the frequency is open to interference whenever the signal is blocked. As for KYBY - next time I travel the grand parkway loop up that way, I'll listen for the transition point.

 

[First Fone 65]

QUOTE=rbrucecarter5;6100466]I am pretty far down Fry and can't see the tower - so the frequency is open to interference whenever the signal is blocked. As for KYBY - next time I travel the grand parkway loop up that way, I'll listen for the transition point.[/QUOTE

RF is not always predictable, and You need to remember every LPFM channel is shared with a class A 100 KW monster some where, I have been able to see the LPFM antenna at a half a mile distance and not hear them at all for skip coming form the big boys, If a LPFM is running text book power of 100 watts at 100 ft, during skip conditions they could be getting reflections of a 100 kw signal at 2000 ft elevation or 1000 times stronger, like a elephant stepping on your foot OUCH.

 

[First Fone 65]

The FM band 88 to 108 MHZ is amazing it has the characteristics of both the old low band "high way patrol" frequencies 30 to 40 MHZ for extended range, and high band frequencies of 150 to 170 MHZ for low noise and penetration. with low power.