FM translators for Valley AM stations

[bjmtech]

First with K248BX-FM MU 97.5 in Visalia and now K289CB-FM 105.7 The Bear in Merced, what will be the next AM station to take on a FM translator in the valley? Will any Fresno AM'S take a similar approach? Which ones should?

 

[kenrayc]

1430 KYNO should get one, but I don't think any frequencies are available, unless they can get a waiver from the FCC, like 92.5 Clovis got, I think 100.7, 98.5, 102.3, or 93.3 can be used. if so the tower at Radio Park at Clinton and First (best to cover the whole metro area)or The Del Webb building or The Security Bank building (where the original KYNO-FM was) could be used.

 

[kenrayc]

Wow No Reply at all like the song by Genesis, I want to say sorry for negative comments I made about Fresno radio ,about that theres too much of this and not enough of that, I really think nobody replies because of me, sorry about the language thing on that drunkin' night and and all of the other BS, come back I will be nicer. wow I remember this place being like FB back in 2007 when I joined, everybody had an opinion on everything, and KYNO should have a low power FM, But I do listen to them anyways like the old days, have an awesome weekend everybody!!!

 

[brettbutlerisok]

I love listing to KYNO on 1430. Even if they were on FM, I would listen on AM. If it doesn't sound good you just don't have a very good AM radio.

Wow I thought I was the drunk jerk who drove every one away. Google "death of internet forums" sad really.

Boy, I sure do miss "classic hit country, AM 1270"

On topic, now. Any and all of the AM's in fresno would love a FM at Radio Park or The Security Bank building (current home of 99.3 kjwl, I think) or del webb building, or even the Fresno state water tower. Preferably at 250 watts but even a 100 watts.

The only one that wouldn't be interested might be KMJ, as they have already sacrificed 105.9 to the "a member of our audience dies every day" fact about AM radio.

One putt would love to have both 940 and 1430 on FM even if they only cover the Fresno/clovis area. No room on the dial here, (but really why not 98.5?) only real question is what will happen to 105.5? It recently has new imaging, and they fixed the sound problems. Problem for them is 103.7 seems to trend more and more to rap every day. If One Putt ever gives up on Rewind, I think it will be a simulcast of either 940 or 1430.

 

[bjmtech]

After some of these new LPFM's have gone on the air here in the valley, there are a few things that I have noticed. First is that at low power levels, a LPFM can operate just fine on the next adjacent frequency to a full power station, such as KJOI 104.3, K241CL 96.1 and K289CB 105.7. Second is that LPFM's or translators that are put on a frequency where a full power station is easily received, it creates detrimental interference to both stations and the LPFM's coverage is greatly reduced. Third there are great frequencies in the valley that go unused because of the FCC spacing rules, which might make sense in densely populated areas where towers are located close together. However here in the Central Valley where a majority of of towers are located in the Sierra's, some which are 40 miles or further from Fresno, translators and LPFM's should be allowed to be constructed on these frequencies rather than on frequencies where that would limit coverage of the low power signals.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

KJOI only works because it is so very far from woodlake. It really depends on what you want where. Make KFRR a LPFM and KHKK, Modesto would be Fresno's 104.1.

 

[kenrayc]

KJOI only works because it is so very far from woodlake. It really depends on what you want where. Make KFRR a LPFM and KHKK, Modesto would be Fresno's 104.1.

KJOI doesn't work well, Stations like 104.1 KFRR on Eshom Point are 50-55 miles away, but are at 5000+ ft in elevation with 17K Watts, No station should be put adjacent to any of those stations in Fresno (91.5, 92.9, 94.9, 97.1,98.9, 104.1, 107.5), and LP-FM shouldn't use Co-Channels that are LINE OF SIGHT, like 103.3 and 106.7, instead they should use Frequencies where the nearest station is on the valley floor like 93.3 Merced and 102.3 Corcoran, their signal is NOT line of sight.
KJOI signal is not good even at 99 and Shaw and that's only 4 miles away, if they had say 102.3 it would sound coverage wize like 92.5 LP Clovis, okay enough venting now back to JACK-FM.
Another thing LP-FM should be used Mostly for distressed AM instead of some person pretending to be part of some Educational Foundation, I think with a real company with a full power AM, the quality of the programming would be better.

 

[radiolife3]

I am not in or from the area and found it fascinating how a handful of the big Fresno Market FM's originate from Eshom Point which is 70 to 80 miles away from Fresno? I get that they are 5k feet up at around 17k watts but that's way out and up there. How is Fresno coverage and building penetration for these stations?

 

[kenrayc]

I am not in or from the area and found it fascinating how a handful of the big Fresno Market FM's originate from Eshom Point which is 70 to 80 miles away from Fresno? I get that they are 5k feet up at around 17k watts but that's way out and up there. How is Fresno coverage and building penetration for these stations?

Eshom Point is more like 45 miles from Fresno and those signals work very well and do building penetration good, maybe you're thinking of Blue Ridge where KBOS 94.9 and KJUG 106.7 used to be, that site is more like 70 miles to Fresno.

 

[radiolife3]

Oh wow thanks for that information. Is anyone still using the Blue Ridge site?

 

[kenrayc]

Oh wow thanks for that information. Is anyone still using the Blue Ridge site?

Yes, should have said more about the Blue Ridge site which is at 5700 ft Elevation Sea Level, they still Have KZPO 103.3 Lindsay-Visalia and KDUV 88.9 Visalia, but FM power up there is low, the original KBOS 94.9 Tulare-Fresno had 770 watts, KZPO only has 280 watts.
Blue Ridge is the original site for KMPH-TV FOX 26 Visalia-Fresno, which for 70 miles away worked great then in Fresno since 1971, then they moved to a new site east of Eshom point on Mt Baldy at Sequoia National Park which is over 7000 ft and about 50 miles from Fresno, an has a huge signal over the Valley From Bakersfield to Merced.
The Other (Main Site) for Fresno Radio and most of all other TV stations is Meadow Lakes, which is about 25-30 miles N/E of Fresno Class B FM have about 2400 watts, except for Grandfathered KSKS 93.7 that has 68K watts, which was originally KFYE Y-94 the first FM top 40 station back in the 70s.

 

[DanielBoone]

Yes, should have said more about the Blue Ridge site which is at 5700 ft Elevation Sea Level, they still Have KZPO 103.3 Lindsay-Visalia and KDUV 88.9 Visalia, but FM power up there is low, the original KBOS 94.9 Tulare-Fresno had 770 watts, KZPO only has 280 watts.
Blue Ridge is the original site for KMPH-TV FOX 26 Visalia-Fresno, which for 70 miles away worked great then in Fresno since 1971, then they moved to a new site east of Eshom point on Mt Baldy at Sequoia National Park which is over 7000 ft and about 50 miles from Fresno, an has a huge signal over the Valley From Bakersfield to Merced.
The Other (Main Site) for Fresno Radio and most of all other TV stations is Meadow Lakes, which is about 25-30 miles N/E of Fresno Class B FM have about 2400 watts, except for Grandfathered KSKS 93.7 that has 68K watts, which was originally KFYE Y-94 the first FM top 40 station back in the 70s.

Yes, I remember the days when 26 used to be hard to get, it would get more snow (before digital TV) than the other stations.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

KJOI doesn't work well, Stations like 104.1 KFRR on Eshom Point are 50-55 miles away, but are at 5000+ ft in elevation with 17K Watts, No station should be put adjacent to any of those stations in Fresno (91.5, 92.9, 94.9, 97.1,98.9, 104.1, 107.5), and LP-FM shouldn't use Co-Channels that are LINE OF SIGHT, like 103.3 and 106.7, instead they should use Frequencies where the nearest station is on the valley floor like 93.3 Merced and 102.3 Corcoran, their signal is NOT line of sight.
KJOI signal is not good even at 99 and Shaw and that's only 4 miles away, if they had say 102.3 it would sound coverage wize like 92.5 LP Clovis, okay enough venting now back to JACK-FM.
Another thing LP-FM should be used Mostly for distressed AM instead of some person pretending to be part of some Educational Foundation, I think with a real company with a full power AM, the quality of the programming would be better.

I agree with everything you said.

I was just making the point that someone at the FCC decided it would be ok if people in Biola could no longer hear KHKK. Then many years later someone decided it would be ok if people in Biola couldn't hear KFRR.

LPFM has turned out to be a total cluster eff.

 

[DanielBoone]

I agree with everything you said.

I was just making the point that someone at the FCC decided it would be ok if people in Biola could no longer hear KHKK. Then many years later someone decided it would be ok if people in Biola couldn't hear KFRR.

LPFM has turned out to be a total cluster eff.

I don't think the people in Biola listen to either type of format, whether it is KHKK Classic Rock, or KFRR modern rock or KJOI oldies/classical, if you get my drift.

 

[kenrayc]

I agree with everything you said.

I was just making the point that someone at the FCC decided it would be ok if people in Biola could no longer hear KHKK. Then many years later someone decided it would be ok if people in Biola couldn't hear KFRR.

LPFM has turned out to be a total cluster eff.

Here what's funny during certain weather conditions, like tropo coditions and tully fog in the winter, KHKK 104.1 Modesto comes in in the North-West areas of Fresno instead of KFRR when I make Deliveries in that area, and still no effect to KJOI, KHKK dominates it as well, and I'm Not talking about KDJK 103.9 (sister station) that comes in good on International ave to Willow and at Ft Washington, and
Friant Road to Friant all of the time.

 

[brettbutlerisok]

Here what's funny during certain weather conditions, like tropo coditions and tully fog in the winter, KHKK 104.1 Modesto comes in in the North-West areas of Fresno instead of KFRR when I make Deliveries in that area, and still no effect to KJOI, KHKK dominates it as well, and I'm Not talking about KDJK 103.9 (sister station) that comes in good on International ave to Willow and at Ft Washington, and
Friant Road to Friant all of the time.

Well aware. Honestly with analog tuning radios, KFRR is kinda hard to tune in north of downtown Fresno. Wouldn't have worked out in the 80's as a Fresno station. Also the reason I bring up KHKK and KFRR is because KFRR seems to go off-air just a little bit more than your average station (still not very often, nbd) and KHKK sounds like a local in Fresno but not much farther south than that. Much like KABX. By the logic the FCC used in approving KFRR, My975 could be full power up on a hill? But it really seems like logic is out the window anymore.

As far as KJOI goes I can hear it, with some static on Manning west of hwy 41 with good radios. Well enough that if I like the song I will listen. Perhaps the people of Biola would be better served by a simulcast of KMAK.

 

[DanielBoone]

Well aware. Honestly with analog tuning radios, KFRR is kinda hard to tune in north of downtown Fresno. Wouldn't have worked out in the 80's as a Fresno station. Also the reason I bring up KHKK and KFRR is because KFRR seems to go off-air just a little bit more than your average station (still not very often, nbd) and KHKK sounds like a local in Fresno but not much farther south than that. Much like KABX. By the logic the FCC used in approving KFRR, My975 could be full power up on a hill? But it really seems like logic is out the window anymore.

As far as KJOI goes I can hear it, with some static on Manning west of hwy 41 with good radios. Well enough that if I like the song I will listen. Perhaps the people of Biola would be better served by a simulcast of KMAK.

Si Senor.

 

[kenrayc]

Well aware. Honestly with analog tuning radios, KFRR is kinda hard to tune in north of downtown Fresno. Wouldn't have worked out in the 80's as a Fresno station. Also the reason I bring up KHKK and KFRR is because KFRR seems to go off-air just a little bit more than your average station (still not very often, nbd) and KHKK sounds like a local in Fresno but not much farther south than that. Much like KABX. By the logic the FCC used in approving KFRR, My975 could be full power up on a hill? But it really seems like logic is out the window anymore.

As far as KJOI goes I can hear it, with some static on Manning west of hwy 41 with good radios. Well enough that if I like the song I will listen. Perhaps the people of Biola would be better served by a simulcast of KMAK.

Well your comparison of KKHK and KABX is off, KABX 97.5 is only 50 miles from Fresno and is at 2500 FT with 8.8KW and has a Line of Sight signal down to Selma, and KHKK is 110 miles away, 1,300 FT , not line of sight to Fresno, but because of it's 50K signal during Tropo condition it comes in, but not 24/7, (same with Cat Country 103.3)and that's why KKHK has 103.9 KDJK Mariposa as a repeater which is 53 miles away at 4300 ft and that one does have a Line of sight signal to Fresno the only problem is with their signal is that it's only 72 Watts, and subject to "Noise" from both KFBT 103.7 and KFRR 104, but with the right receiver it's still possible, I get it in North Fresno.

 

[bjmtech]

The last few posts have brought up several good points as to how the FCC appoints and allows spacing on same and adjacent frequencies.
To kenrayc, living in NW Fresno myself, only about 2 miles from the 99, it is especially apparent how KHKK 104.1 Modesto will often overtake KFRR 104.1 Woodlake in the morning and evening hours.
Just 2 days ago KHKK was being received better in my car radio than was KFRR, which with recent discussions on this board about co-channel interference from line of site and lp stations on those same channels can demonstrate how neither station can be reliably listened to.
Its an interesting idea though brettbutlerisok about KFRR not being a good Fresno station durring the 80's, and presumably now, is this due to their own technical issues (buy all accounts this station should be received just as well in Fresno as KBOS, KSOF, KSEQ, etc), or is KHKK creating some underlining signal that is causing most radio's to have reception issues as you travel farther north?

 

[bjmtech]

One thing to consider however is that is KABX 97.5 Merced is actually not line of site much past Fresno? what if they were able to increase their power to 16,000w or more at the same HAAT, would they then only reach as far as Selma? I remember being in Hanford a few years back and being able to clearly get KABX in the afternoon. Was this tropo conditions in the middle of the day? Haven't been there since my97.5 Visalia went on the air, but I would be willing to bet that KABX is probably giving some competition to my97.5.