101.9 KQES-LP: It's back!

[Frequency1]

The complaint is now on the FCC's web site. Nice job on the complaint.

 

[rikwall]

Thanks Frequency1 and IndigoCoyote....

What we really need next is to document the broadcasting of commercials so we can supplement our Informal Objection pleading. Time is of the essence so it would be supper helpful to get your complaint info now, IndigoCoyote, even before hearing back from FCC. You can get it to us by posting it here, via private message here, or to [email protected]. I've also sent you my personal email via private message here, which may be the best way of all.

For anyone who would like to read the documents on this filing, here's are links to the relevant locations on the FCC website:
https://goo.gl/ola7ND = Informal Objection pleading document as it appears on FCC website
https://goo.gl/VzeE2f = KQES-LP filing page
https://goo.gl/Hw9ZvU = KVSH-LP filing page

Best,
Rick

 

[FMSteve]

New Tang Dynasty Television is a registered 501c3, FYI.

http://ntdtv.org/en/aboutus.html

 

[Radio-X]

New Tang Dynasty Television is a registered 501c3, FYI.

http://ntdtv.org/en/aboutus.html

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure a non-profit can still run a commercial station...occasionally even a for-profit enterprise can run a non commercial station!

However, I don't speak a lick of Chinese, so figuring out if NTD broadcasts actual commercials is based on their website saying "advertise with us". They say zero about underwriting or the like. Their website makes it seem like I could advertise a standard commercial on their station...which is great...as long as it's not being simulcast on a LPFM or on the reserved band!

I'd like to imagine the station has someone on the Eastside who is running the show, but based on prior performance, I wonder if it's a "set it and forget it" enterprise. Most of the hacked stations got things cleared up in a day...took KQES about two weeks!

Makes me wonder if someone were to address their grievances about the station if anyone would actually listen!

Radio-X

 

[bobdavcav]

You're right, KCMS is run by a non-profit and runs commercials.

 

[rikwall]

You're right, KCMS is run by a non-profit and runs commercials.

Yep. Nonprofits can run commercial stations, no problem.

The issue here is running commercials on a Non Commercial Educational (NCE) license. LPFM is a type of NCE and commercials, as others have said, are prohibited.

 

[davideduardo]

Commercials are not allowed on LPFMs. KQES-LP should be taken off the air. Any type of promotion for a product can only be a support message, like the NPRs. "Support for NPR comes from JP Morgan Chase, blah blah blah." There are a few stations that air 'commercials' as support messages, making them sound like a commercial station. I know KCEP/Las Vegas airs what sounds like commercials, but are businesses that support the station.

Underwriting announcements are "low key" commercials, but must meet certain conditions so as not to be "hard sell".

Here is a good synopsis of what can and can not be in a non-commercial station's underwriting spots:

"Underwriting from businesses and other "for profit" organizations

Donations may be acknowledged by a brief announcement, generally 30 seconds or less in length.

Permitted:
A. Name of donor
B. Slogan or logo identifying the donor (audio or visual)
C. Address, telephone number, and web site
D. Brand name may be included
E. A value neutral description of products, goods, and services

Prohibited:
A. Comparative or qualitative statements
B. Price information
C. "Calls to action" or statements encouraging listeners to contact or patronize the donor
D. Repetitive statements (giving name / address several times in one announcement)."

 

[FMSteve]

You're right, KCMS is run by a non-profit and runs commercials.

KCMS gets to run Commercials because their frequency (105.3 Mhz) is in the Commercial band.

 

[FMSteve]

Underwriting announcements are "low key" commercials, but must meet certain conditions so as not to be "hard sell".

Here is a good synopsis of what can and can not be in a non-commercial station's underwriting spots:

"Underwriting from businesses and other "for profit" organizations

Donations may be acknowledged by a brief announcement, generally 30 seconds or less in length.

Permitted:
A. Name of donor
B. Slogan or logo identifying the donor (audio or visual)
C. Address, telephone number, and web site
D. Brand name may be included
E. A value neutral description of products, goods, and services

Prohibited:
A. Comparative or qualitative statements
B. Price information
C. "Calls to action" or statements encouraging listeners to contact or patronize the donor
D. Repetitive statements (giving name / address several times in one announcement)."

So this is a test. Your client is Husky Football. You run a non-com station in the reserve band or an LPFM station on any channel.

Husky Football wants to advertise the big game at the UW stadium next Saturday. They buy 40, 60-second spots to run R.O.S. (Run of Schedule) starting tomorrow until the game.

The UW wrote the copy and in it they say "buy your tickets now before they sell out", and "come on down to the game on Saturday, it's going to be awesome". They also say they're giving away free scarfs to entice you to attend the game.

Q. May they run this spot?
Q. May they run a full 60 second message?
Q May they put a music bed underneath?

 

[davideduardo]

So this is a test. Your client is Husky Football. You run a non-com station in the reserve band or an LPFM station on any channel.

Husky Football wants to advertise the big game at the UW stadium next Saturday. They buy 40, 60-second spots to run R.O.S. (Run of Schedule) starting tomorrow until the game.

The UW wrote the copy and in it they say "buy your tickets now before they sell out", and "come on down to the game on Saturday, it's going to be awesome". They also say they're giving away free scarfs to entice you to attend the game.

Q. May they run this spot?
Q. May they run a full 60 second message?
Q May they put a music bed underneath?

No on 1, as this is a call to action in both the buy now, and come on down invitations. It has a qualitative statement in saying it will be awesome. The mention of a premium seems to be related to patronizing the box office.

There is no specific requirement or limit on length, nor is there a prohibition of music beds. If you look at the PBS "ads" you will find some are long descriptions, with music backgrounds.

 

[FMSteve]

No on 1, as this is a call to action in both the buy now, and come on down invitations. It has a qualitative statement in saying it will be awesome. The mention of a premium seems to be related to patronizing the box office.

There is no specific requirement or limit on length, nor is there a prohibition of music beds. If you look at the PBS "ads" you will find some are long descriptions, with music backgrounds.

Wrong! I'll give you a break since you apparently live out of market.

Who else wants to join in?

 

[rikwall]

KCMS is not a Non Commercial Educational licensed station. It's not their frequency that determines whether they can run commercials (they also broadcast in the AM band), it's their type of license. The guidelines that DavidEduardo describes apply only to NCE stations.

Rick

 

[rikwall]

There's one condition that DavidEduardo missed in his excellent summary: The restrictions do not apply to 501(c)(3) nonprofits or public colleges. So the answer to FMSteve's question depends on who is actually paying for the air time. If Husky Football is a 501(c)(3) then the spot can run or if the air time is being paid for by the public college University of Washington the spot can run.

However, if the station running the spots is operating under an NCE license of any type they are not allowed to run the spot you describe for a for-profit entity, primarily because it contains a call to action. Since KQES-LP is by definition an NCE station, or at least has applied to be one, Glade Air Freshener spots would be illegal according to FCC policy.

Ironically, I'm pretty sure if the air time promoting tickets to the game was being paid for by a ticket agency (e.g., StubHub, Ticketmaster, etc.) the spots would not be allowed even though the event is being put together by a nonprofit or a public college. This would also apply to Brown Paper Tickets, which is a business for profit although it bills itself as a "fair trade" ticket company and is used by many non-profits.

Here's the actual FCC policy:
https://goo.gl/NXJ27x

There have been some references to the reserve band but that's not the determinant. It's true that the reserve band is reserved for NCE stations but it is possible for NCE stations to be licensed outside the reserve band. This Wikipedia article is a reasonable summary of this point and also has some info about spots for non-profits:
https://goo.gl/MWwMTg

Rick

 

[FMSteve]

Rik, you are correct! This was a trick question. The University of Washington is a State University and a Non-profit entity. As long as the entity paying for the spot is the University, then there are absolutely no underwriting restrictions. The underwriting rules do not apply. This also means you may run a 60-second spot. Most underwriting is limited to 20-secs.

I never could understand why KUOW and KEXP, while airing a 501c3 or other non-profit organizations' spots, craft their copy into 20-seconds and abide by the underwriting rules when they needn't do that.

 

[davideduardo]

Rik, you are correct! This was a trick question. The University of Washington is a State University and a Non-profit entity. As long as the entity paying for the spot is the University, then there are absolutely no underwriting restrictions. The underwriting rules do not apply. This also means you may run a 60-second spot. Most underwriting is limited to 20-secs.

Good trick, and well made point.

Of course, I don't follow American rules football, so I did not know who or what the Huskies are, so I missed the association with the university. So I was double-befuddled!

 

[Radio-X]

I never could understand why KUOW and KEXP, while airing a 501c3 or other non-profit organizations' spots, craft their copy into 20-seconds and abide by the underwriting rules when they needn't do that.

My guess is continuity and ease on the production/underwriting staff.

KING-FM does the exact same thing...an underwriting announcement for an event at UW, Seattle Opera, etc is similar in length to an underwriting announcement for PEMCO or Central Market.

Radio-X

 

[rikwall]

And...FCC granted license to cover to KQES-LP today.

Sorry to say, FCC "granted" the "license to cover" for KQES-LP today:
https://goo.gl/VzeE2f
https://goo.gl/dGyxDn
100 watt transmitter power to 76 watts effective radiated power.

If anyone is willing to file consumer complaint with FCC (see above) about running commercials, that might be helpful. Assume they will continue to operate illegally as they have in the past.

Rick

 

[Kelly A]

If anyone is willing to file consumer complaint with FCC (see above) about running commercials, that might be helpful. Assume they will continue to operate illegally as they have in the past.

Rick

Unless people on this discussion board can speak and understand Mandarin, let alone be in the coverage area of this station to hear it, I'm not sure why you would lobby folks to file a complaint with a completely unsubstantiated allegation. Basing a conclusion on someone reportedly hearing a music bed that sounds similar to what a cable TV network may have aired, is not much reason to complain.

 

[rikwall]

Hi Kelly,

Sorry to have missed this post until now. I'm actually asking the reverse. I'm asking anyone who can hear the station and can validate the claims made on this board to file a complaint. Sorry if I came across as if I was asking just anyone to file a complaint.

There have been reports here and elsewhere by people within listening range that KQES is running the NTD network without blocking the commercials. There was a report here, for example, that someone heard a Glade commercial. As you know, if that was an accurate report it would be evidence that KQES violated FCC regs for NCE licenses. Of course, as you say, it would be silly for someone to file a complaint when they couldn't hear the station.

Thanks for challenging me to clarify the request.

Rick

 

[Bongwater]

How the hell did they EVER get a license to cover after all this BS in the first place?

I mean, seriously, is it really money that saves butts when it comes to LPFM? I've heard of upstanding professionals who nearly bankrupted themselves unsuccessfully trying to get an LPFM license.

But THESE people? WTF?