Nov 6+..and still no WOW!

[davideduardo]

And now that I know I'm dealing with someone who understood my point in the first place, David, are we at a point where we can call something a failure and blow it up in 90 days, or does a format and a PD still have a year, give or take, to turn a corner?

I think there is a gray area today, given that there are no budgets to cover big launches of new formats.

I think the fact that PPM markets get weeklies, and we can track our stations in such granular fashion, the time given for a format to meet owner expectations is less.

We have to keep in mind that previously, we were really without full, weighted data for 90 days between books; the trends were pieces of two different sample frames, mostly unweighted and inaccurate. Now the data is just a week or two old... less if you get the raw numbers from MediaMonitors.

On the other hand, it costs so much to change formats that owners are likely to stick with it "another book or two" before committing to a big shift.

On the other hand, we have the critiques on social media. Wow! does not look good anywhere.

 

[tbolt909]

And now that I know I'm dealing with someone who understood my point in the first place, David, are we at a point where we can call something a failure and blow it up in 90 days, or does a format and a PD still have a year, give or take, to turn a corner?

I agree that the format should be given at least a year. That's long enough to get an idea about its viability. The station is targeting 55+ demos. Sebastian has stated this.

Ratings shouldn't be as important if they can find enough advertisers who want to reach that demographic. If that happens and it pays the bills, then it can succeed as a niche format. I have no idea what the expectations of ownership are...

 

[asugeorge1]

On the other hand, we have the critiques on social media. Wow! does not look good anywhere.

Exactly David. The station and their new WOW! format is getting trashed everywhere. I’m not in the target demo, but my dad is and he does not like it. He’s not a fan of the obscure music they play, the country music, etc... He prefers Oldies 92.7 and I don’t blame him, I prefer Oldies 92.7 as well. I don’t think the numbers will go up all that much. This is not KSLX from back in the day!

 

[davideduardo]

I agree that the format should be given at least a year. That's long enough to get an idea about its viability. The station is targeting 55+ demos. Sebastian has stated this.

A year in the diary world is four books. In the PPM, we are dealing with the equivalent of "dog years" so a good read on the station can be made in 4 books.

Even if we discount the holiday effect, we should know by the end of the February book if the format is working. That is about when I'd expect adjustments to begin if it is not working.

By the end of February, they will have had 20 weekly reports. They will be able to see if there is any growth in the target demos, and also analyze the strengths of stations that compete in those demos.

Ratings shouldn't be as important if they can find enough advertisers who want to reach that demographic. If that happens and it pays the bills, then it can succeed as a niche format. I have no idea what the expectations of ownership are...

Ratings indicate the number of listeners who may hear an advertiser message. If there are few listeners, the station will not generate results for advertisers.

We know that agency accounts don't want that demo. Local agencies may be a bit more tolerant, but they will indeed look at the ratings and say, "we want mature customers, but you don't reach very many of them and there are better deliverers of 45-64 or 55+ that also give us large under-55 audiences".

The problem with low ratings in huge geographically dispersed markets is that retail accounts that don't have numerous branches will find that only a few listeners are within driving distance of their location. Nobody is going to zoom over from Glendale or Tolleson or Carefree or the Greater Media Hut Urban Area (GMHUA, or "Gum-wha" to locals) to Chandler to visit a smaller store or even a car dealer.

 

[tbolt909]

A year in the diary world is four books. In the PPM, we are dealing with the equivalent of "dog years" so a good read on the station can be made in 4 books.

Even if we discount the holiday effect, we should know by the end of the February book if the format is working. That is about when I'd expect adjustments to begin if it is not working.

By the end of February, they will have had 20 weekly reports. They will be able to see if there is any growth in the target demos, and also analyze the strengths of stations that compete in those demos.



Ratings indicate the number of listeners who may hear an advertiser message. If there are few listeners, the station will not generate results for advertisers.

We know that agency accounts don't want that demo. Local agencies may be a bit more tolerant, but they will indeed look at the ratings and say, "we want mature customers, but you don't reach very many of them and there are better deliverers of 45-64 or 55+ that also give us large under-55 audiences".

The problem with low ratings in huge geographically dispersed markets is that retail accounts that don't have numerous branches will find that only a few listeners are within driving distance of their location. Nobody is going to zoom over from Glendale or Tolleson or Carefree or the Greater Media Hut Urban Area (GMHUA, or "Gum-wha" to locals) to Chandler to visit a smaller store or even a car dealer.

Again, I don't know what level of ratings & revenue ownership is expecting. I assume they have agreed to give Sebastian a certain amount of time to prove his theory. If they expect results by February as you suggest, the outlook is poor. I personally think the format is ill conceived. Others have said the sound quality of the music is bad. That doesn't help his cause...

 

[davideduardo]

Again, I don't know what level of ratings & revenue ownership is expecting. I assume they have agreed to give Sebastian a certain amount of time to prove his theory. If they expect results by February as you suggest, the outlook is poor. I personally think the format is ill conceived. Others have said the sound quality of the music is bad. That doesn't help his cause...

The problem is that the trending shows the station at half the level of the former format; it the owners were not happy with the ratings and billings with the old format and were willing to try a new one, they are likely not happy with the decision.

A lot has to do with what Sebastian promised were the owners to change to his new format.

 

[KP]

What "promotion of the station?" As I've asked on here before, how is the average person in the demo supposed to find out about it in this day & age? The only reason I know of its existence is from coming here.

 

[TheBigA]

It might be a good time to go back to Sebastian's September interview in RadioInk, where he talked about local talent and reaching untapped advertisers:

https://radioink.com/2019/08/23/why-sebastian-believes-his-new-format-will-work/

The fact is neither of those things have happened in 90 days. So they obviously are in this for the long haul.

I'm sure they were hoping for less loss from the Oasis, and more positive response from the core. The thing to listen for over the next few months is any tweaking of the music, and any improvement to the presentation. I can't imagine them staying status quo.

 

[DrAkbar]

As a public service to WOWdom followers, Nurse Jeff and I've prepared a list of antonyms you may consider using:

flop
failure
clunker
dud
turkey
bomb
bummer
bust
catastrophe
debacle
fiasco
misfire
washout
loss

Our invoice for creative services is in the mail. Kindly remit in 30 days. Thank you.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

What "promotion of the station?" As I've asked on here before, how is the average person in the demo supposed to find out about it in this day & age? The only reason I know of its existence is from coming here.

Yep. The "wow factor" of the station is at the moment "wow, I had no idea this was even a thing."

They flipped, and only the people who had The Oasis on their presets had an inkling that something was different. Where's the marketing? Where's the message being spread that there's something new? Nowhere. Like a lot of folks, I've been part of the launch of a new station/format, and you can't just put it on the air and hope people stumble across your station. You've got to shout it from the rooftops.

Plus it's a rim-shot, so even if someone happens to have their radio on seek, it might not stop on the "Wow Factor" at all. These signals have to work extra hard to compete. The "Wow Factor" is like a new restaurant that opened up and didn't put a sign outside the business or even a sign in the window that said "open."

 

[TheBigA]

The "Wow Factor" is like a new restaurant that opened up and didn't put a sign outside the business or even a sign in the window that said "open."

By the same token, you don't do that until you're ready. Until you've got a product you're proud of. I don't think they're there yet.

 

[tbolt909]

By the same token, you don't do that until you're ready. Until you've got a product you're proud of. I don't think they're there yet.

I don't get that. Didn't he have time to prepare his "WOW" format "before" it hit the air? What level of commitment has ownership made? I suspect they gave him very little money for staff or publicity. Maybe they are giving him a trial period to find clients, listeners, and revenue on his own. If he doesn't deliver, they simply pull the plug and move on...

 

[davideduardo]

By the same token, you don't do that until you're ready. Until you've got a product you're proud of. I don't think they're there yet.

I have not listened enough (I have access to a local SDR in PHX so no geofencing issues) to form an opinion, but my question to those in the market is whether there has been any significant change or adjustment in the "sound" of the station, the song mix or anything else since it began.

I've looked at the airplay monitors since the format started, and see no real change in rotations or selections after the first couple of weeks. I've looked at the "logs" to see individual hours and days, and I don't see much tinkering with the gears on this machine.

It's still over 1000 songs, going from Itcycoo Park to Travelin' Soldier. Someone took a left turn off of Bizarre Avenue onto Weird Boulevard and just kept going off into the sunset.

I've never launched a station until it is ready, as I have a belief that your first impression has to be a good one.

Decades ago, another broadcaster taught me that "if the first Fuller Brush salesman shows up at your door drunk, you will never talk to another Fuller Brush guy again in your life. It's the same with radio..."

Of course, most folks don't remember the ubiquitous Fuller Brush Man (capitalization intentional) or even home delivery of milk. But the lesson is an enduring one.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't get that. Didn't he have time to prepare his "WOW" format "before" it hit the air? .

Bingo!

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

Of course, most folks don't remember the ubiquitous Fuller Brush Man (capitalization intentional) or even home delivery of milk. But the lesson is an enduring one.

I remember both.

I also remember a station that I worked for that had just launched. We were literally broadcasting from the back of a garage in a converted house, going up against a huge powerhouse station that had double digit numbers. We had no money, but took them on anyway. Our first big event was the downtown fireworks on the 4th of July. They showed up with their giant boombox (remember those?) and all the swag. We had one banner and a stack of bumper stickers.

David vs Goliath. Yet our promotions guy rented a scissor lift, we wrapped it in that one banner, and did our broadcast from 20 feet above the other guys. That got attention. Then after, when everyone was fighting traffic to leave, they sat in their boombox waiting for people to come up and ask for swag. We grabbed our stack of stickers and went out into the traffic jam, offering to trade our stickers for the other station's.

We got a great response, and came back to them with a stack of their own stickers, handed it over and said "hey, people didn't want these."

After that night, we were more than just "that new station."


It made a huge first impression. And I understand that radio has changed, but that showed me that you don't have to have a huge promotions budget to make an impact.

 

[CTListener]

I have not listened enough (I have access to a local SDR in PHX so no geofencing issues) to form an opinion, but my question to those in the market is whether there has been any significant change or adjustment in the "sound" of the station, the song mix or anything else since it began.

I've looked at the airplay monitors since the format started, and see no real change in rotations or selections after the first couple of weeks. I've looked at the "logs" to see individual hours and days, and I don't see much tinkering with the gears on this machine.

It's still over 1000 songs, going from Itcycoo Park to Travelin' Soldier. Someone took a left turn off of Bizarre Avenue onto Weird Boulevard and just kept going off into the sunset.

Have you noticed whether the inferior re-recordings of past hits that in-market listeners were complaining about right after the format launched have been removed or replaced, or aren't you familiar enough with the music to tell? How's the sound quality song-to-song on the SDR feed?

This whole thing seems ultra-weird to me. Why does an experienced radio programmer with a resume including major market success slap together a format featuring so many -- and so many incompatible -- songs and not even bother to make sure he's found the original hits and that everything that's in the library is of decent audio quality? Surely he knows that his target audience, like all audiences that have followed, for the most part prefers hearing under 600 songs that they know and like to over 1,000 that they either like, hate or don't know, and that the years in which baby boomers started to abandon pop for country were in the '80s and early '90s, not the '00s, when the genre took a sharp turn toward youth appeal that continues today, doesn't he?

 

[asugeorge1]

Have you noticed whether the inferior re-recordings of past hits that in-market listeners were complaining about right after the format launched have been removed or replaced, or aren't you familiar enough with the music to tell? How's the sound quality song-to-song on the SDR feed?

This whole thing seems ultra-weird to me. Why does an experienced radio programmer with a resume including major market success slap together a format featuring so many -- and so many incompatible -- songs and not even bother to make sure he's found the original hits and that everything that's in the library is of decent audio quality? Surely he knows that his target audience, like all audiences that have followed, for the most part prefers hearing under 600 songs that they know and like to over 1,000 that they either like, hate or don't know, and that the years in which baby boomers started to abandon pop for country were in the '80s and early '90s, not the '00s, when the genre took a sharp turn toward youth appeal that continues today, doesn't he?

As an in market listener, I can attest to the fact that the “sound quality” has not changed, that the annoying re-recordings of songs are still in rotation and the playlist has not changed all that much since the launch in early October. To be fair, I am not listening as much as I was when the station first launched, but I was driving back to Phoenix from San Diego earlier today giving the WOW! Factor a listen. To me, not much has changed. The country songs are still there too. I think the fact that people have stopped talking about the WOW! factor after the initial lackluster launch tells you all you need to know about how things are going with the station.

 

[DrAkbar]

Someone took a left turn off of Bizarre Avenue onto Weird Boulevard and just kept going off into the sunset.

That pretty much describes the format in one sentence!

 

[TheBigA]

I don't get that. Didn't he have time to prepare his "WOW" format "before" it hit the air?

I refer you to the interview with Sebastian in the earlier post. It was his opinion that this was a brand new format. He was saying it hadn't been tried before. At the time, I disagreed with him, and he responded to me that I was wrong. He said this format was completely different from anything that has ever been tried before. When something hasn't been tried before, they have no way of preparing the format until it hits the air. What is on the air now is the process of preparation. How else would you suggest that he "prepare" before he hit the air?"

I have not listened enough (I have access to a local SDR in PHX so no geofencing issues) to form an opinion, but my question to those in the market is whether there has been any significant change or adjustment in the "sound" of the station, the song mix or anything else since it began.

Once again, I refer you to the Sebastian RadioInk interview I linked earlier. Compare what he's doing to what he proposed. There are no local personalities. I don't hear any of the types of advertisers he said his format would attract. And we can clearly see the numbers are awful. No, he hasn't made any change or adjustment to the sound of the station, most likely because he's a stubborn, pig-headed boomer who refuses to see or admit he's wrong. He seems to believe, like many of his generation, that millions of people will also like what he likes, and will throw away their other devices and start listening. My suspicion is the owner will have a conversation, and it will either lead to some changes in the sound after the first of the year, or we may see a change in PD. I am not a defender of him or of his format. I spoke out early that this was an act of folly. He disagree with me. I'm just waiting and waiting to be proven wrong.

 

[tbolt909]

You "prepare" by having a plan and then trying to execute it. If the plan was to launch with only music and add personalities later, then yes it's a work in progress. Listeners aren't tuning in expecting to hear certain commercials. The sales department is responsible for finding clients. In this case, maybe Sebastian "is" the sales department.

Musically, the format is a jumbled mess. The majority of this music is being played on stations all over the country.(Perhaps not on the same station). WOW is hardly "a brand new" concept. It's another variation of JACK or the many tired "Variety" formats.

Not all Boomers are the same. That's a huge number of people with diverse tastes. The tired WOW music doesn't represent what all Boomers want...