Successful All-News Stations

[nowradioguy]

To those of you who have access to actual ratings, as opposed to the 6+ numbers that we in the rabble see:

It is my impression that the most successful all-news stations would be:

WINS, New York
WTOP-FM, Washington, DC
WBBM, Chicago
KNX, Los Angeles

Is my impression correct? If so, how are they able to thrive? Do their owners (Entercom and Hubbard) invest in, and "push" them?

This question is driven by comments on this and the other board that claim all-news radio is doomed.

 

[spt87]

To those of you who have access to actual ratings, as opposed to the 6+ numbers that we in the rabble see:

It is my impression that the most successful all-news stations would be:

WINS, New York
WTOP-FM, Washington, DC
WBBM, Chicago
KNX, Los Angeles

Is my impression correct? If so, how are they able to thrive? Do their owners (Entercom and Hubbard) invest in, and "push" them?

This question is driven by comments on this and the other board that claim all-news radio is doomed.

WINS and WBBM have been around a long time - I think the momentum just keeps them going. WBBM has an FM simulcast as well so that may help with younger demographics. Both have been all news since the mid 1960's I believe.

WTOP is in a city where many careers hinge on what is in the news. Even a lot of the 20 somethings are heavily into politics and have political careers. Being on three FM signals to cover the region doesn't hurt.

 

[TheBigA]

It is my impression that the most successful all-news stations would be:

I think KCBS is far more successful that KNX. It's a top-rated station in a Top 5 market.

I would also suggest that several NPR affiliates should be a part of that list. WAMU and KQED are top rated in their markets.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

I think KCBS is far more successful that KNX. It's a top-rated station in a Top 5 market.

I would also suggest that several NPR affiliates should be a part of that list. WAMU and KQED are top rated in their markets.

Absolutely. KCBS is quite successful. I'd argue, like WTOP in DC, it's a town where what's going on in the news effects a lot of people.

And if you're adding NPR News stations, you also need to add Seattle to the mix. Despite having 2 NPR stations and a commercial news station, KUOW is usually a top 5 contender where it matters...usually double or triple the listenership of all-news KOMO AM/FM.

 

[nowradioguy]

I think KCBS is far more successful that KNX. It's a top-rated station in a Top 5 market.

I would also suggest that several NPR affiliates should be a part of that list. WAMU and KQED are top rated in their markets.

I'd have to agree with you re KCBS vs KNX; the former does have higher ratings.

I intentionally left out public broadcasters, because not only are they not driven as much by ratings as their commercial counterparts are, but more so because they don't have to answer to shareholders or investors who have more money than brains.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

WTOP, WINS, WCBS and WBBM are all top-10 radio stations for revenue according to BIA/Kelsey, all billing $40 million or more in 2018.

However, from 2013 to 2018, WCBS revenue dropped by 20% -- possibly hurt by losing the Yankees.

 

[davideduardo]

WTOP, WINS, WCBS and WBBM are all top-10 radio stations for revenue according to BIA/Kelsey, all billing $40 million or more in 2018.

Keep in mind, though, that this is an expensive format. It's likely that, in most cases, the net income is lower than that of a music station with half the billing.

 

[Cap-n Spackle]

WEEI 590 in the 70s?

 

[Wimmmex]

WEEI 590 in the 70s?

"That first button on your car radio, WEEI, Newsradio59!"

What I liked most about WEEI at that time was the fact that they included some 'features' around the news clock.

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

Keep in mind, though, that this is an expensive format. It's likely that, in most cases, the net income is lower than that of a music station with half the billing.

What makes it particularly expensive? Hiring reporters and a greater amount of on-air folks?

What I have wondered, (using KOMO AM/FM as an example) would using satellite for quiet parts of the day (like overnights) or "synergy" with a co-owned TV news desk (like simulcasts of news programs, reporters pulling double duty, etc.) make it significantly cheaper? In the case of KOMO, both billing and ratings are middle-of-the-pack in Seattle. And, of course, we had things like Headline News simulcast on radio and AP's "The News Station" satellite format. Neither seemed to do well even though they were plug-and-play news formats.

 

[TheBigA]

What makes it particularly expensive? Hiring reporters and a greater amount of on-air folks?

Of course. That's the primary difference. The amount of local reporting will have a direct affect on the size of the budget. If you simply had a news reader who read self-written continuity between network or outside news reports, they might be comparable. The minute you start hiring writers, producers, and reporters, it starts getting expensive. Same with talk. A local talk show can be done cheaply if it's just the host, running his own board, screening his own calls, and doing his own prep. The minute he hires a couple of staffers, the cost exceeds a music show.

 

[davideduardo]

What makes it particularly expensive? Hiring reporters and a greater amount of on-air folks?

Just look at the staff size of an all news station vs. that of a music format.

A music station might have a two-person morning show, and perhaps be live in middays and afternoons. It's very possible that they would not have anyone in evenings, overnight and weekends. The PD in most clusters handles several stations now, if there is even a local PD.

My most extreme contrast came with a station I consulted in Buenos Aires which was all news and talk. The morning news block had 6 to 7 live on-air people, and there were 40 writers and journalists. The rest of the day had talk hosts, but with regular newscasts with writers, producers and reporters on the street at all times. The total programming staff was nearly 100 persons.*

Stations like WCBS and WINS have fewer people than my Argentine example, but they still have five to ten times the air and news staff of a sister music station. They also have news services, correspondents in the state and national capital, vehicles, and of course much higher insurance in several areas. They also need vastly more office space for all the staff, computers, etc.

* Buenos Aires metro is a bit bigger than New York's MSA.

 

[semoochie]

Just look at the staff size of an all news station vs. that of a music format.

A music station might have a two-person morning show, and perhaps be live in middays and afternoons. It's very possible that they would not have anyone in evenings, overnight and weekends. The PD in most clusters handles several stations now, if there is even a local PD.

My most extreme contrast came with a station I consulted in Buenos Aires which was all news and talk. The morning news block had 6 to 7 live on-air people, and there were 40 writers and journalists. The rest of the day had talk hosts, but with regular newscasts with writers, producers and reporters on the street at all times. The total programming staff was nearly 100 persons.*

Stations like WCBS and WINS have fewer people than my Argentine example, but they still have five to ten times the air and news staff of a sister music station. They also have news services, correspondents in the state and national capital, vehicles, and of course much higher insurance in several areas. They also need vastly more office space for all the staff, computers, etc.

* Buenos Aires metro is a bit bigger than New York's MSA.

I was under the impression that hispanics in the US are not particularly interested in News and Talk. If they are in Argentina, it would suggest that the reason is not cultural but must be something else.

 

[davideduardo]

I was under the impression that hispanics in the US are not particularly interested in News and Talk. If they are in Argentina, it would suggest that the reason is not cultural but must be something else.

The main issue about news and talk in Spanish in the US is that the Hispanic population in general is about 10 to 12 years younger, on average, than the non-Hispanic white population.

News/Talk stations in English are very much 45+ in appeal. Among Hispanics, in most markets there are fewer older Hispanics. In addition, throughout Latin America news/talk stations are mostly of appeal to middle and upper income class listeners. Emigrants from those countries tend to be from the lower middle and lowest income classes and are generally both too young and not of a higher income level and educational level.

The few slight exceptions are in Miami, where there is a huge percentage of business and professional immigrants from Latin America which constitutes a group with greater interest in news/talk... yet still the talk stations don't do very impressively, mostly because origin groups from each individual country have radically different news and talk interests. In fact, one sociologist said "people from 20 different countries divided by a single language" in reference to the nations of Latin America where Spanish is .

Another factor is that, in most of Latin America, the talk stations are now on FM. AM is not appealing to US Hispanics except as a last resort and most immigrants have no habit of listening to AM at all. Mexico, several years ago, declared an AM crisis to exist, making it possible for about 70% of all AMs to move to FM. AMs are disappearing all over Latin America, which some cities now having half as few as they did two decades ago; three of the four AMs I owned in Quito, Ecuador decades ago are now permanently off the air.

 

[DonMatsen]

"That first button on your car radio, WEEI, Newsradio59!"

What I liked most about WEEI at that time was the fact that they included some 'features' around the news clock.

WEEI was CBS-owned. The all-news stations had some features built into the clocks. The Group W models were more focused on the "give us 22 minutes ... " and there wasn't much time for that.

 

[nowradioguy]

WEEI was CBS-owned. The all-news stations had some features built into the clocks. The Group W models were more focused on the "give us 22 minutes ... " and there wasn't much time for that.

It always seemed to me that WBZ was trying to emulate both the Group W and the CBS news models. Traffic on the Threes, LIVE AccuWeather reports SIX times an hour. When Westinghouse bought CBS and snuffed out Group W, things took a while to settle, especially during that "Infinity Broadcasting" interval when Mel Karmazin was in charge of CBS Radio, but eventually the CBS O&O news and news/talk stations did well.

Another thing that impressed me over the years was how a CBS O&O (WBZ) was able to maintain an affiliation with ABC News Radio! Methinks ABC was just so thrilled to get on-air clearance in Boston it didn't matter that they had to deal with a CBS O&O.

 

[TheBigA]

Another thing that impressed me over the years was how a CBS O&O (WBZ) was able to maintain an affiliation with ABC News Radio! Methinks ABC was just so thrilled to get on-air clearance in Boston it didn't matter that they had to deal with a CBS O&O.

ABC News Radio had very advanced digital content for their affiliates, something CBS didn't do until recently.

 

[davideduardo]

It always seemed to me that WBZ was trying to emulate both the Group W and the CBS news models. Traffic on the Threes, LIVE AccuWeather reports SIX times an hour. .

Those placements are more likely benchmarks to get full quarter hour credit in the PPM. Until 2008, news stations tried to maximize diary measurement methodology, and now it is the PPM.

 

[nowradioguy]

Those placements are more likely benchmarks to get full quarter hour credit in the PPM. Until 2008, news stations tried to maximize diary measurement methodology, and now it is the PPM.

Not my point at all.

What I was driving at was that 1010 WINS still airs AccuWeather reports six times per hour, and WBZ no longer does. Entercom didn't tinker all that much, if at all - at least to my ears - with 1010 WINS, while iHeart had to put its "mark" on WBZ.

 

[TheBigA]

Entercom didn't tinker all that much, if at all - at least to my ears - with 1010 WINS, while iHeart had to put its "mark" on WBZ.

Of course the difference is that Entercom doesn't own a traffic & weather service, and iHeart does.