What is kroq gonna do?

[radiojomo]

So you're saying that if Kaplan apologizes to the Facebook haters, his ratings will soar? Really? You think there's something a radio station could do that would cause listeners to throw away their phones and give up free streaming?

I hate to tell you, but even in non-commercial radio, listeners screw the station. We calculated that only 7% of the people who listen actually send money. What does that tell you about radio listeners? We pour our hearts into a station, dedicate our time and effort to our listeners, and only 7% feel the need to pay for it. Terrible.

It's ironic to find the people who have criticized KROQ for not being innovative over the past decade knock the station for trying to re-invent themselves for a new generation.

Clearly the people who are complaining on Twitter about KROQ most likely have not listened to the station in years and are not in the target demo KROQ is trying to appease. And it seems like the idea of stepping backwards to appease their complaints (i.e. Bringing back the "low-rated" Kevin in the Morning show, playing older alternative music, firing Mike Kaplan) probably won't increase the ratings or revenue by much.

There is a small percentage of listeners who care - and those are the vocal ones - but even then, that's maybe like 10% of the audience?

If the money stops rolling in and the ratings drop, these things will shift back or in a different direction. Entercom seems to be placing a wild bet that they can skew their demos younger by playing newer alternative and crossover tracks.

For instance, playing "Circles" by Post Malone makes a ton of sense for an alternative station. Crossing into the electronic music and hip-hop space makes a ton of sense. KROQ historically did this in the '90s and early '00s by adding Cypress Hill and Daft Punk into the rotation.

The right strategy for KROQ would be:
1. Find a KILLER morning show. Seriously. We have seen with the recent Joe Rogan deal that personality-driven content is still very valuable when done right. It's a huge revenue driver for stations. Stryker and Klein may very well be it (both are very talented individually and did wonderful in the afternoons), but they will need at least a year and a half to sort out the show in mornings. The key here is to directly appeal to the most critical demo (Latinx millennials).
2. Make the right adjustments to the music.
3. Be unapologetic about the strategy. If I was Kaplan or the Entercom market manager, I don't answer requests for interviews. I go ahead and follow what the data shows will work. If it doesn't, at least they tried to do something different.

 

[TheBigA]

3. Be unapologetic about the strategy. If I was Kaplan or the Entercom market manager, I don't answer requests for interviews. I go ahead and follow what the data shows will work. If it doesn't, at least they tried to do something different.

I agree. I think it was bad form to do the Variety interview. That's something you do after it's a hit, not before. Even though I agree with him.

I agree about mornings. By moving Stryker to mornings, they hurt their only strong daypart. Keep him where he has an audience and find Kline a co-host who is in the life group. My first phone call would have been to Billie Eilish's brother. Someone like that who gives you credibility. As Sheryl Crow said, "This is El Lay." Do something you can ONLY do in LA.

 

[TheBigA]

I would say, those KROQ DJ's who have a long tenure could slide easily into a gig on KRTH

Only if KRTH changes its format to classic alt. Otherwise, they're very different formats. Under normal circumstances, you'd want the DJs at the CHR station to segue to classic hits. But unfortunately, KAMP fired its morning show, and the station is in shambles. Using your model, Carson Daly, if he was looking to get back into radio, is starting to age and might be good at an older leaning station now. But I sense Carson's not looking for that kind of role. Which is too bad, because he has a lot of radio cred that's being wasted. Musically I think his taste is closer to KROQ right now.

 

[MarkW]

Re:

I agree. I think it was bad form to do the Variety interview. That's something you do after it's a hit, not before.

I agree with you on this point, BigA.

Mr. Kaplan did NOT come off good in that interview!

 

[TheBigA]

Mr. Kaplan did NOT come off good in that interview!

However, the strategy they describe for rebuilding the station, identifying a new target audience and going for it, sounds like a good plan to me. If it works, it would be a lot better than what happened to other similar stations around the country. It sounds similar to what the staff was preparing at WAAF before the station was sold.

 

[MarkW]

KROQ was in need of an overhaul; true. Should've happened several years ago. Weatherly took his eye off the ball and let the station's sound grow stale. Never cared for his style of tight playlists (even by FM radio standards) and high repetition of library tracks.

I have serious doubt if the new morning show is a good match for the audience KROQ is now striving to attract. In any event, the first new show after the unseating of a longstanding, heritage morning show often fails. This is why I agree with you that Stryker should've stayed put in PM drive. If & when the new morning show fails, I hope Stryker is not a sacrificial lamb.

 

[davideduardo]

KROQ was in need of an overhaul; true. Should've happened several years ago. Weatherly took his eye off the ball and let the station's sound grow stale. Never cared for his style of tight playlists (even by FM radio standards) and high repetition of library tracks.

Weatherly was spread too thin by management. While it is his fault for accepting the greater responsibilities, management should have kept him focused on his best performing station.

The playlist was not particularly tight by radio standards; Weatherly managed to quite successfully discipline a rather lose station while at the same time improving the numbers.

The repetition is, in part, what made the station consistent and attractive. Listeners knew, within a range, what they would get when they went there.

 

[TheBigA]

Weatherly was spread too thin by management.

That's the excuse he gave in the Variety article. He was in charge of the programming of three stations, one of which was Jack. Now he's in charge of North American programming at Spotify. If he was overwhelmed by three stations in a city, how will he be able to handle an entire platform for a continent?

 

[MarkW]

Many years ago, if memory serves correctly, Weatherly was given corporate format responsibilities for a time for CBS's rock & alternative stations (when Stern was still at the company). Over a period of a couple years, I saw WBCN's ratings tank, WHFS's ratings tank, new launches in Sacramento, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and San Antonio earn mediocre to poor ratings, Live 105.3 in San Francisco earn lousy ratings, etc.

He seems like a one trick pony. Except for Jack FM. OK, so a two trick pony.

 

[davideduardo]

That's the excuse he gave in the Variety article. He was in charge of the programming of three stations, one of which was Jack. Now he's in charge of North American programming at Spotify. If he was overwhelmed by three stations in a city, how will he be able to handle an entire platform for a continent?

He will have delegates. Good ones, too.

The problems Weatherly has had were due to getting him to do the work of many people. It was sort of "Okay, you can earn ten people's salaries, but you have to work ten times as much".

As silly as that sounds, it is what has made consolidation go wrong in programming in many instances. You can't have a person doing a fulltime job add two more fulltime jobs to their agenda. That just does not work; the result is that three jobs are done badly.

Radio consolidation created many programming positions where one PD did a whole cluster worth of stations. The result was five or 6 mediocre stations.

PDs are not like lawyers who can be handling a number of cases at once. The best situation is one station or, if there are several stations, they should be the same format in comparable markets. I've seen that work elsewhere in the world with great success but the one-guy-six-formats generally does not succeed.

 

[tbolt909]

Many years ago, if memory serves correctly, Weatherly was given corporate format responsibilities for a time for CBS's rock & alternative stations (when Stern was still at the company). Over a period of a couple years, I saw WBCN's ratings tank, WHFS's ratings tank, new launches in Sacramento, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and San Antonio earn mediocre to poor ratings, Live 105.3 in San Francisco earn lousy ratings, etc.

He seems like a one trick pony. Except for Jack FM. OK, so a two trick pony.

Alternative was a viable format in the 90s. It's not in 2020. The younger demos they are chasing aren't interested in Radio. They may like some of the artists and go to concerts, but that doesn't mean they will listen to a station.

The current "Alternative" format is nothing more than mainstream Pop. Fans of Classic Alternative may not like it and the younger demos don't care about Radio. That should explain why most current Alternative stations have abysmal ratings...

 

[Radionerd408]

He will have delegates. Good ones, too.

The problems Weatherly has had were due to getting him to do the work of many people. It was sort of "Okay, you can earn ten people's salaries, but you have to work ten times as much".

As silly as that sounds, it is what has made consolidation go wrong in programming in many instances. You can't have a person doing a fulltime job add two more fulltime jobs to their agenda. That just does not work; the result is that three jobs are done badly.

Radio consolidation created many programming positions where one PD did a whole cluster worth of stations. The result was five or 6 mediocre stations.

PDs are not like lawyers who can be handling a number of cases at once. The best situation is one station or, if there are several stations, they should be the same format in comparable markets. I've seen that work elsewhere in the world with great success but the one-guy-six-formats generally does not succeed.

I agree with this 100%!

 

[macattack]

Alternative was a viable format in the 90s. It's not in 2020. The younger demos they are chasing aren't interested in Radio. They may like some of the artists and go to concerts, but that doesn't mean they will listen to a station.

The current "Alternative" format is nothing more than mainstream Pop. Fans of Classic Alternative may not like it and the younger demos don't care about Radio. That should explain why most current Alternative stations have abysmal ratings...

The most successful Alternative station in terms of pure shares that I've found is KPNT, which regularly pulls down 5s. Now, this is St. Louis, and 5 shares in St. Louis don't =/= a city like Los Angeles, but a 5 share is still a 5 share.

What do they do differently from Kaplan's KROQ and WNYL?

1. Despite Hubbard's financial troubles, they nevertheless backed up a Brinks truck to keep The Rizzuto Show on the air for another few years. It is often the #1 morning program in St. Louis for 18-34 and 25-54 and is locally based. They've nurtured this show and it has become a fixture on the airwaves.

2. KPNT has never ditched hard rock. While they play a number of modern Alt staples (they have picked up every Billie Eilish single since "Bury A Friend", usually beating competitor KLLT to the punch), their current offerings include Active artists such as Shinedown, Pretty Reckless, and The Glorious Sons, as well as Active/Alt crossovers like Black Keys. Even 2010s hard rock like Avenged Sevenfold's "Hail to the King" remains in the rotation.

2b. As for alternative currents, KPNT typically has between 35-40 going at once, and while they play poppy fare like AJR and Glass Animals most Alternative they play is guitar-based. This has helped them keep their identity as it never feels like it's on the verge of becoming a pop station.

3. Local artists that only had one or two significant hits nationally like The Urge or Cavo will still have new songs spun (sometimes heavily) or have catalog songs spun on occasion. Local artists also sometimes have their songs sneak into light rotation if the track resonates well enough, obviously looking to see if it'll catch on.

4. KPNT usually devotes a weekend every month to retro programming to give their older audience nostalgic feelings. They run a diverse selection ranging from 80's artists like Modern English and Echo & The Bunnymen to 90's hard rock like Brother Cane. Sometimes even Tom Petty sneaks in there.

In conclusion, the KPNT model is respect your heritage, roll with the trends without giving up your identity, play a solid, evolving mix of gold and current music including poppy and edgy fare, support local artists new and old, and give the audience a beloved morning show. Easier said than done, of course, but I think the model should be worth considering, especially as they have managed to keep younger people tuning into the station.

 

[TheBigA]

He will have delegates. Good ones, too.

The problems Weatherly has had were due to getting him to do the work of many people. It was sort of "Okay, you can earn ten people's salaries, but you have to work ten times as much".

He had "delegates" at CBS too. He wasn't doing all this by himself. CBS doesn't work that way. They are big on group-think. As I said, he was in charge of Jack, but much of what he did there was oversee people, not actual programming. The real problem was he himself was aging out of the alternative life group. That's a much bigger problem than having too much to do. Until the Entercom sale, he was always able to delegate. But he couldn't delegate the fact that the music was changing, and he didn't see it change. We see this with air talent, who fail to stay in the life group with the demo as the music changes. That's an easy thing to do with songs, but harder to do with people. It's like dating someone who's half your age. You're each at different stages in life.

 

[TheBigA]

1. Despite Hubbard's financial troubles, they nevertheless backed up a Brinks truck to keep The Rizzuto Show on the air for another few years.

I think that's a big factor. If you look at KROQ, Kevin & Bean were still top rated in mornings until just a few years ago. They were holding the station together, not the music. Once Bean left last year, it wasn't the same. Perfect time for a change. Of course Kevin & Bean had been there longer than Rizzuto. A day will come there too.

As lots of people say, radio stations are more than just a bunch of songs. Listeners can get whatever songs they want on demand anywhere. What holds them to a radio station is the people and to some degree the heritage.

 

[tbolt909]

I think that's a big factor. If you look at KROQ, Kevin & Bean were still top rated in mornings until just a few years ago. They were holding the station together, not the music. Once Bean left last year, it wasn't the same. Perfect time for a change. Of course Kevin & Bean had been there longer than Rizzuto. A day will come there too.

As lots of people say, radio stations are more than just a bunch of songs. Listeners can get whatever songs they want on demand anywhere. What holds them to a radio station is the people and to some degree the heritage.

That's why connection is so important. Music is a big piece, but personality and some sense of community is key. Since the personalities usually have no say in the music choice, it's hard to blame them when the product gets stale. Non Music Zoo Morning Shows generally suck anyway and get mocked.

"Alternative" in the 90s actually meant something. Those stations played artists that AOR/Classic Rock/Hard Rock stations wouldn't. Music discovery was something that Radio used to offer. Look what happened to KFOG in San Francisco. Cumulus drove away people who were passionate about KFOG, and they wonder why people think Radio is a joke...

 

[TheBigA]

Look what happened to KFOG in San Francisco. Cumulus drove away people who were passionate about KFOG, and they wonder why people think Radio is a joke...

They didn't have to drive people away. People left on their own. Then the station made some bad decisions. But they didn't willingly drive people away. Same with KROQ. By the time they fired Kevin, the listeners had mostly left. At KFOG, the station could have evolved into some form of classic rock. That could have retained the heritage and older audience. Perhaps they didn't realize just how dead the music was.

People were passionate about the old KFOG. Nothing stays the same forever. It either evolves and grows, or it withers and dies.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

That's why connection is so important. Music is a big piece, but personality and some sense of community is key. Since the personalities usually have no say in the music choice, it's hard to blame them when the product gets stale. Non Music Zoo Morning Shows generally suck anyway and get mocked.

"Alternative" in the 90s actually meant something. Those stations played artists that AOR/Classic Rock/Hard Rock stations wouldn't. Music discovery was something that Radio used to offer. Look what happened to KFOG in San Francisco. Cumulus drove away people who were passionate about KFOG, and they wonder why people think Radio is a joke...

KFOG died when they fired Dave Morey. I know he "retired" but I still believe he was forced into it.

I know I am like a lot of others who tuned into his 10@10 for some serious appointment listening, and then ended up sticking around for the whole day. The station was successful for many years because they did a lot of interactive activities with their audience and were always promoting new artists that fit the format.

Now David, before you come along and say how they were really not very successful, always a middling station in the ratings, remember the format - AAA is a very tough sell anywhere and without the extensive audience outreach (lots of station-promoted concerts, artist interviews, new artist CDs) they would have met the same fate as the far less imaginative LA based AAA stations we have seen come and go. KFOG had a great run with the AAA format, but Cumulus had to sacrifice the things that made the station great via severe budget cuts that were made in order to make the interest payments.

 

[TheBigA]

The station was successful for many years because they did a lot of interactive activities with their audience and were always promoting new artists that fit the format.

Same with KROQ. The Weenie Roast was more than just the big name headliners, but the new artists they helped promote. But that aspect was becoming a problem as the audience and airstaff aged. Running a radio station is a daily thing where people make decisions every day. As the station played fewer currents, it became harder to promote new artists at the Weenie Roast. Then you have to look at the collapse of record label promo departments in rock formats. That has really hurt radio in ways we still don't know.

Cumulus had to sacrifice the things that made the station great via severe budget cuts that were made in order to make the interest payments.

I read that about iHeart too, and I've never seen evidence to say its true. I have never seen that any money from local cuts was used to pay down debt. The budget cuts at stations were because the stations weren't meeting their numbers. It was a local problem first. Sales revenues were going down at a time when revenues nationally were going down. You have to cut the budget because the revenues were dropping, because the audience was aging, and advertisers weren't spending as much. And yes that has an effect on programming.

 

[tbolt909]

They didn't have to drive people away. People left on their own. Then the station made some bad decisions. But they didn't willingly drive people away. Same with KROQ. By the time they fired Kevin, the listeners had mostly left. At KFOG, the station could have evolved into some form of classic rock. That could have retained the heritage and older audience. Perhaps they didn't realize just how dead the music was.

People were passionate about the old KFOG. Nothing stays the same forever. It either evolves and grows, or it withers and dies.

Not sure what you mean by "how dead the music was".
Classic Rock is mostly dead artists by now. KFOG was more AAA, before Cumulus screwed it up. They could have found a balance between heritage artists and newer ones.

Corporate tried the "cookie cutter" approach to get younger listeners with disastrous results. They drove off the loyal listener base and got nothing in return. Hardly a winning formula...