I just wish more FM stations would consider moving to 1WTC. Barring the lower power due to the taller height, it would be nice to see more FM's utilizing this transmitter. Have any other NY/NJ FM stations expressed any interest in 1WTC. It's just a shame that everyone settled on ESB (barring that it is in the middle of midtown). The FCC adjusted everything for the TV stations to relocate down there.
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FM Stations on WTC?
- Thread starter rain9613
- Start date
Not to mention the lack of incremental revenue potential from such a move. There's actually a possibility it could reduce revenue.
101.9 tried a move to WTC and actually moved back uptown to ESB as it was a more advantageous site, IIRC.
Yes that's what a CE has to demonstrate for any non-budgeted expense. He has to demonstrate a direct relationship between the expense and new revenue. If it doesn't either save money or make money, it doesn't happen.
Most TV viewing is not off the air... it comes via cable, satellite and other wired solutions.
FM is off-air almost totally (and stations that stream don't have their streaming audience added to the FM listening since nearly no major market ones are 100% simulcasts) and moving southwards and losing the New York City MSA counties to the north would be highly damaging.
The only commercial FMs on the old World Trade Center towers were there not by choice.
As I recall WKCR received some form of non-com alumni discount that made it attractive. I also recall that 103.5 (formerly WTFM, WAPP, and WYNY, now WKTU) also received some special discount as the first radio station to broadcast from WTC. They discovered their signal was actually better once it moved to ESB. I don't recall how WPAT ended up there.
Moving to the WTC requires an ERP drop from 6,000 watts to approximately 3,200 watts (for about a 100 meter increase in HAAT) That would impair building penetration to a significant degree. With the higher rental costs and potential loss of listeners, it likely isn't worth the investment.
Had a question of curiosity does anybody know what all radio stations were using the antenna transmitter on the old world trade center destroyed on 9/11?
And also did those stations lose reception on 9/11 due to the antenna being destroyed?
Here is the story for each of the four FMs.
https://www.radioworld.com/news-and...g-radio-stations-despite-the-rubble-post-9-11
103.5 went to WTC because it needed a directional antenna, which was not possible on the ESB. It was not until later on that 103.5 hammered out the mutual interference agreement with WPRB and WNNJ-FM and was able to go non-directional.
I don’t recall the details on WPAT-FM, but it might have had something to do with proximity to co-channel WHYN-FM in Springfield, MA. They currently operate at ESB with less power than the other full Class B stations, so that would seem to explain it.
I remember reading some years back on the NYRMB (which has been 'down' itself the last few days*) about the predictions for Country's success in the NY market.
As things stood, signal-wise, the numbers most suggested as 'possibly acceptable-to-triumphant' ones all said 'low to mid 2's'. As things turned out, that range is exactly where WNSH and their NYC brand has occupied -- even through the pandemic months. To my way of thinking: if indeed Nash considers those numbers workable ones, why screw with things? Especially in these times?
* as of 1:20 PM post time today, Thursday 8-6
As things stood, signal-wise, the numbers most suggested as 'possibly acceptable-to-triumphant' ones all said 'low to mid 2's'. As things turned out, that range is exactly where WNSH and their NYC brand has occupied -- even through the pandemic months. To my way of thinking: if indeed Nash considers those numbers workable ones, why screw with things? Especially in these times?
* as of 1:20 PM post time today, Thursday 8-6
And ironically that's about where WYNY was when it was at 103.5 and the antenna was on the WTC. Country is not going to be a big in-city format. It's going to have a large audience in the suburbs. WYNY was not a Top 10 format during its country heyday, and when it flipped to WKTU, it immediately shot to #1.
Thanks for the article extremely interesting. Wondering if anyone has audio or was recording any of those 4 stations when the towers went down and has the audio of them going off air.
Speaking of 93.1 WPAT since they used to transmit at the old WTC 5.4kw/433M. According to the FCC website. WPAT is listed the old WTC as the main site and their back up site is 4kw/386.7M at ESB, and 7.5kw/281M at 4 Time Square. Can someone verify if they are still transmitting at ESB? Also, I thought that WPAT have a STA for 4kw/415M at ESB instead of 4kw/387M. Finally, is WPAT moving to the new WTC site?
WPAT would be crazy to move to the WTC site. Lower power, farther away from much of the audience, particularly the Dominican community north of Central Park.
They are happy with the slightly lower power on their STA.
Moving downtown should not really reduce coverage of Northern Manhattan. They would still be within 10 miles of the transmitter. Any place in Manhattan should still get a City Grade Signal from ESB, WTC or 4TS.
Granted the additional height would give them less power but wouldn’t they still get more overall outdoor coverage at 1WTC at full power vs. reduced power at ESB?
Granted the additional height would give them less power but wouldn’t they still get more overall outdoor coverage at 1WTC at full power vs. reduced power at ESB?
Greater height means lower power. Lower power affects building penetration. The FCC power vs. height formulae reduce power the higher you get, so that overall free space coverage does not change. But NYC is not free space. It has among the world's greatest density of big thick tall buildings that block signals and make indoor reception difficult.
In the case of a huge percentage of Hispanic listeners, reception in apartment buildings and multi-family residences is critical. Lower power and greater distance from the audience are not a good formula.
My favorite example was 600 watt WCAA at the ESB and me and my top of the line pocket radio at a hotel at 52nd and Madison. Unless I got the radio really near to a window and I was facing either 52nd or Madison, I could not get WCAA. Just not enough power. But the other ESB stations, closer to 10 times the power, came in fine.
Moving
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