Radio Pros/Past Alumni: What inspired you to leave the radio business? On the contrary, what made you stick with radio for your professional career?

[Deleted User]

what made me get out? (but I still did it as a hobby)

Job security, union wages & benefits, the ability to retire with medical coverage for life at the age of 49, stable life, not working for narcissistic aholes, etc etc etc.

If you missed the thread on the Boston Board, Danielle Murr is leaving WEEI FM after 25 years in the business to pursue business opportunities outside of radio. This was her choice. How bad does top 10 market AM drive Sports radio have to be that you walk away from being the ONLY full time woman in sports radio in the market to gamble on the unknown in this economy?

https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/danielle-murr-announces-she-is-leaving-greg-hill-show

I have seen what radio has done to my friends who stuck with it.... 38 years in mid days, top 10 market,owns the daypart as far as ratings in their P1, Marconi Award Winner... top rated station..... POOF YOU ARE OUTTA HERE..... among other horror stories.

 

[b-turner]

Such things are really sad. I'm guessing the guy was let go last year when Covid destroyed billing at stations everywhere, up to 95% at some places. About 50% around here. I've always advocated the best option is to have skills beyond your current position so you will have added value to the company. For example, I've been in the sales side for about 35 years but during that time I've written copy, done production, worked board shifts, programmed and a few other things to stick around. I'm lucky I had somebody teach me sales and mentor me along the way.

 

[fordranger797]

Purely out of curiosity, what to radio personalities who are lucky enough to make it into a top market actually get paid? Obviously, there is incredible variation from the morning show to an evening host I'm sure, but what salary would you typically expect/estimate for a midday host, evening host, or even the highly coveted afternoon drive host? As we know, salaries are pretty low in smaller markets, but I am genuinely curious about how much better the pay could be if you were in a top 10 market. Might be a bit of a forward question, but you'll never know if you don't ask.

 

[TheBigA]

Purely out of curiosity, what to radio personalities who are lucky enough to make it into a top market actually get paid?

Like everything, it's negotiable. Whatever the market will bear. Top market morning drive talent can expect 6 figures. Also a factor is most major markets pay union scale to AFTRA members regardless of daypart, and that's usually about $75K depending on market. But when you talk about syndicated hosts, it can run into millions. Even then, that's just the radio money. If you can turn a radio gig into becoming a national celebrity, the way Bobby Bones has done, you can add TV appearance money and other outside gigs. The sky is the limit. If you voice commercials, there's even more money there. Endorse products, more money. Ben Shapiro owns his newsletter, and that brings in over a million.

 

[b-turner]

I was told in non-union markets it was in the $15 to $20 an hour range. One market in particular, a major one, a jock outside the morning show was looking at about $3,000 a month a decade ago. While low, you could buy a 3 bedroom 2 bath suburban home for about $100,000 to $125,000 in a decent neighborhood back then. By the way, in addition to salary, you got health insurance, some retirement and such.

 

[davideduardo]

Like everything, it's negotiable. Whatever the market will bear. Top market morning drive talent can expect 6 figures. Also a factor is most major markets pay union scale to AFTRA members regardless of daypart, and that's usually about $75K depending on market. But when you talk about syndicated hosts, it can run into millions. Even then, that's just the radio money. If you can turn a radio gig into becoming a national celebrity, the way Bobby Bones has done, you can add TV appearance money and other outside gigs. The sky is the limit. If you voice commercials, there's even more money there. Endorse products, more money. Ben Shapiro owns his newsletter, and that brings in over a million.

Salaries in even the majors are way down from a decade ago. Since the 2008-09 recession, contracts have been renegotiated and pay is lower.

In my experience in markets like LA and New York, even major stations are hiring for voice tracking for multiple stations. A pure music daypart is now down around $100 k or less, with multiple markets included. A personality show leader might be in the lower six figures, down from as high as a seven figure level a decade ago. And most morning shows in group owned stations are considered for their multiple market potential.

Morning shows can go from below $100 k on purely local but significant stations to up over $1 million if syndicated and a big name... with Seacrest being the best example.

 

[fordranger797]

Wow! Thank you for sharing all of that information b-turner and David. I'm actually surprised to see that this type of work was even THAT lucrative in the big market. There has been a little variance in some of the comments so far, so just to put it all together it sounds like basic dayparts in small markets are likely to yield minimum wage to $15 per hour, medium to larger markets from $15 to $20 per hour, and up to 100k per year in some of the major top ten markets. 100k sounds pretty impressive, but one has to remember that it's highly unlikely for most personalities to make it in most of these markets.

 

[b-turner]

In many small markets, a station will contract for voice-tracking. You might not make much per station and need several stations to make a living wage. If you know your stuff, you might not spend more than 30 minutes to an hour voicing your shift. The station I work for has a 2 person live morning show. The remaining 4 shifts are voice-tracked. On weekends it is voice-tracked 24/7. This is a small market station. The morning crew doesn't just do a shift. Between the two there's production, local news, traffic, sports and sales added in the job description. It's a full day for both.

 

[TheBigA]

100k sounds pretty impressive, but one has to remember that it's highly unlikely for most personalities to make it in most of these markets.

Which is why I recommend people look beyond a standard job with benefits, and instead see themselves as content creators or for-hire talent. The radio job may be only one of the activities. Depending on skills and interests, you might do announcing at an area venue or arena. You might do voice work for digital outlets. Bobby Bones augments his work as a radio & TV host by writing and recording music. There are 24 hours in a day, and lots of time to pursue other activities that can add up to real money. Anyone who only does one thing is leaving money on the table.

 

[fordranger797]

Which is why I recommend people look beyond a standard job with benefits, and instead see themselves as content creators or for-hire talent. The radio job may be only one of the activities. Depending on skills and interests, you might do announcing at an area venue or arena. You might do voice work for digital outlets. Bobby Bones augments his work as a radio & TV host by writing and recording music. There are 24 hours in a day, and lots of time to pursue other activities that can add up to real money. Anyone who only does one thing is leaving money on the table.

In that same vein, wouldn't it be better just to focus on streaming, podcasting, or other web-hosted platforms? Obviously, it is EXTREMELY hard to make a name for yourself on non-terrestrial platforms, but it does seem to be a better pathway with more individual security (if you're willing to work hard).

 

[TheBigA]

In that same vein, wouldn't it be better just to focus on streaming, podcasting, or other web-hosted platforms?

It seems to be working both ways. Radio stations are hiring people who are attracting an audience digitally (Ben Shapiro is an example), and here's an example of a radio DJ in Detroit who just left his station because he had 3 million followers on TikTok:

Metro Detroit Tik Tok influencer on track to 3 million followers

Listeners of New Country 93.1 know him as Josh ‘Bru’ Brubaker, but 2.9 million followers worldwide know him as the ‘CEO of Radio Tik Tok.’

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[fordranger797]

That's a cool story! I never knew that TikTok could be such a lucrative business. I can't really think of anyone in my age group who doesn't use TikTok though.

 

[gr8oldies]

Which is why I recommend people look beyond a standard job with benefits, and instead see themselves as content creators or for-hire talent. The radio job may be only one of the activities. Depending on skills and interests, you might do announcing at an area venue or arena. You might do voice work for digital outlets. Bobby Bones augments his work as a radio & TV host by writing and recording music. There are 24 hours in a day, and lots of time to pursue other activities that can add up to real money. Anyone who only does one thing is leaving money on the table.

These are opportunities that weren't even dreamed of in "the good old days". You lost your gig, you dissapeared unless you landed across town. Now, you take your social media following with you.

A local Chief Meteorologist was "non-renewed" by his station, fighting a non-compete that wouldn't let him be hired across town, but eventually launched a weather app, had a studio built in his house, and has recruited several sponsors. Who needs a TV station when you are the TV station? It allowed him and his family to stay in town as well.

 

[Kelly A]

That is really too bad. I've always been somewhat interested in the engineering side of radio, and at one time considered getting a certification. Engineering has always seemed like the safe but also interesting side of radio, where you provide the most direct support to a broadcasting company. It's a shame to hear that your experience forced you to leave. It seems like a very risky proposition to allow your engineers to become dissatisfied with the environment, as engineers are not easy to obtain.

Was talking about this very subject with an engineering friend from the industry just the other day... I predict that in five or six years there will be no engineering departments at any radio station in the U.S. There may be one or two corporate staff within a large group that manage the technical infrastructure and relationships with contractors.

That said, there is an opportunity for really good business-centric progressive technical folks with solid RF experience, to become the next generation of technical service providers as independent businesses. However, if you find yourself yearning for the old days of cart machines and analog audio processing loudness wars, you'll probably not flourish in the new world.

 

[fordranger797]

These are opportunities that weren't even dreamed of in "the good old days". You lost your gig, you dissapeared unless you landed across town. Now, you take your social media following with you.

A local Chief Meteorologist was "non-renewed" by his station, fighting a non-compete that wouldn't let him be hired across town, but eventually launched a weather app, had a studio built in his house, and has recruited several sponsors. Who needs a TV station when you are the TV station? It allowed him and his family to stay in town as well.

I actually never thought about it that way. One of the most essential skills that a radio host MUST have in the modern era is strong social media skills. It's both a necessity for their station, and their resume. Sort of like the article that BigA referenced about the young Detroit country music personality, his strong social media following surely helped him land a new gig in Los Angeles.

 

[fordranger797]

Was talking about this very subject with an engineering friend from the industry just the other day... I predict that in five or six years there will be no engineering departments at any radio station in the U.S. There may be one or two corporate staff within a large group that manage the technical infrastructure and relationships with contractors.

That said, there is an opportunity for really good business-centric progressive technical folks with solid RF experience, to become the next generation of technical service providers as independent businesses. However, if you find yourself yearning for the old days of cart machines and analog audio processing loudness wars, you'll probably not flourish in the new world.

It sounds like your prediction is likely to be reality. These days, it seems extremely important for a broadcast engineer to have a solid background in IT networking and basic computer science, as pretty much every modern radio studio is run through computerized technology. Transmitter technology has improved drastically, making most of these machines significantly more reliable. Even without the need for excessive babysitting at the tower site, there still is a need for broadcast engineers who can troubleshoot the new and improved technology in the studio. Perhaps the old days of changing out tubes at a tower site have been replaced by running CAT6 cable through the office and setting up a networking switch. There's an old saying that most radio hosts and personalities know little to nothing about how the technology they are using actually works, or what to do in the event of a failure. No matter how much the technology improves, failures will always be imminent and there will always be a need for someone who can troubleshoot.

 

[Deus Ex Machiato]

I actually never thought about it that way. One of the most essential skills that a radio host MUST have in the modern era is strong social media skills. It's both a necessity for their station, and their resume.

I knew someone who was hired to be part of a morning show in a large market solely because of her social media presence. She honestly wasn't even that good on air, but she brought her followers...which was more than the station had! As The Big A said, it's vital to have side hustles if you're a personality.

As far as the money goes (reading back over some of the responses here), it really has gone down. Part of the reason you need side gigs is because the $$ isn't like it used to be. Around 20 years ago I was a morning show producer in a large market. Hosts were making six figures, I wasn't, but I had a contract and was making decent money with remotes thrown in. Fast forward to a few years back, I was talking to the person doing the same gig at the same station. 15 bucks an hour, part time. The afternoon guy at the time was making the same salary as me...a production director. The midday guy (again, large market) was driving Uber/Lyft on weekends for extra cash.

As for your original question, I was "inspired" by having my job eliminated. Farmed out to a regional hub. I had been saving my money for years (and I cannot recommend this enough), so I was able to take time and figure out my next move.

 

[fordranger797]

I knew someone who was hired to be part of a morning show in a large market solely because of her social media presence. She honestly wasn't even that good on air, but she brought her followers...which was more than the station had! As The Big A said, it's vital to have side hustles if you're a personality.

As far as the money goes (reading back over some of the responses here), it really has gone down. Part of the reason you need side gigs is because the $$ isn't like it used to be. Around 20 years ago I was a morning show producer in a large market. Hosts were making six figures, I wasn't, but I had a contract and was making decent money with remotes thrown in. Fast forward to a few years back, I was talking to the person doing the same gig at the same station. 15 bucks an hour, part time. The afternoon guy at the time was making the same salary as me...a production director. The midday guy (again, large market) was driving Uber/Lyft on weekends for extra cash.

As for your original question, I was "inspired" by having my job eliminated. Farmed out to a regional hub. I had been saving my money for years (and I cannot recommend this enough), so I was able to take time and figure out my next move.

There does appear to be a trend with morning shows basing some of their hires on social media potential. It seems like the third chair of a morning show will often to go to someone who may not be an industry professional, but has the ability to expand their brand with their social media presence. If we're talking about the risk associated with being in radio, this position in particular has to be one of the worst, as you don't necessarily have the skills to forge your own pathway in this industry if the show were to be eliminated.

It's too bad to hear that salaries aren't what they used to be. I am glad to hear that you were able to enjoy some of the good days of radio, but I am sorry to hear that it didn't last forever in your situation. $15 per hour doesn't pay the bills, and it becomes apparent why so many radio professionals are turning to "side gigs" to make ends meet. Some of the other posters have touched on what you could expect for a salary in some of the largest markets. While some of those numbers sound appealing, it is good to keep some perspective and remember that this isn't an industry with unlimited potential for growth. Rather, those numbers would be your ceiling.

Like I said, I'm on the younger end of the spectrum, but I've been lucky to enjoy working in radio in a part time capacity for the past six years or so. During that time, I considered radio to be more of a hobby than a career, and was able to work while I was attending college. I was at a crossroads at the time, as I could go to college and pursue my other interests, or I could try to move up the radio ladder by trying to get a more permanent position in another market. I think I chose wisely with going to school. As I mentioned before, I was incredibly lucky to work for small market ownership that were willing to take the time to teach me anything I wanted to know, and help me become who I am today. I know that I wouldn't have gotten that treatment if I attempted to make it in a bigger market.

 

[TheBigA]

If we're talking about the risk associated with being in radio, this position in particular has to be one of the worst, as you don't necessarily have the skills to forge your own pathway in this industry if the show were to be eliminated.

It depends on what you make it. If all you do is social media for the morning show, it's risky. If you enlarge it to editing video content from the morning show, working with sales to get the additional content sponsored, maybe also work with the show team to package that content into a podcast, which might also be sponsorable, then there's less risk. The goal should be to attach yourself to a revenue stream. That makes you more valuable. Always look for your next opportunity, either within the station or beyond. When I was 24, I was working at several radio stations in different roles.

 

[Cay Daze]

Hi everyone,

I've always been curious about what circumstances have led some radio professionals to leave the radio business for other opportunities.

Brokering. Period. When AM stations decided brokering was a "format."

I interviewed for a producer gig. Not just running the board, but booking talent/interviews. I had to cut weather and spots, and other elements. Be my own call screener. Rip shows and burn CD copies of the client's show for them to take with them.

And they came at me with $8.10. And that was because I had experience. If I was fresh out of school, I was told, they'd pay $7.25.

I have no idea why the extra dime. I turned them down. It was the lowest pay I was ever offered in the business. I just couldn't do it, anymore. So, I took a job at a call center doing chat support and got $11 an hour.

But I don't regret being in the business. Not one bit.