Entercom's alternative experiment not a success?

[tall_guy1]

A rock lean and gold-based approach would probably work just as well, that shies away from CHR product. Here's a sample hour of what I came up with (very 90s heavy with some 80s), since obviously the ship has sailed on last decade of "indie" music.

Kings of Leon-The Bandit
Bob Marley-One Love
Foo Fighters-Waiting on a War
311-Down
The Police-Roxanne
Glass Animals-Heat Waves
Sunny Day Real Estate-Seven
R.E.M.-Losing My Religion
Follow You-Imagine Dragons
Pearl Jam-Jeremy
Talking Heads-Once in a Lifetime
Alice in Chains-Man in the Box

 

[TheBigA]

A rock lean and gold-based approach would probably work just as well, that shies away from CHR product. Here's a sample hour of what I came up with (very 90s heavy with some 80s), since obviously the ship has sailed on last decade of "indie" music.

Nice list, and I'd listen to it myself, but I promise you that you'll never hear that list on any Audacy station.

 

[boombox4]

Looks like a good classic alternative music hour. In fact, when Seattle still had a classic alternative FM, that probably was one of the music hours. I haven't listened enough to the classic alternative HD2 in town to say for sure, but it also looks like it could fit there.

 

[macattack]

If anything, it shows how out of touch Audacy is and that their goals are unobtainable in most markets with the way things are being run. I agree that an Audacy “alt” (as in not alt formally but plays a few alt currents) format could be successful, but the ship has already sailed since Kaplan keeps insisting on running things the way he does. Drastic programming changes while still using branding for an alternative station is killing any momentum they could have.

The issue is that Audacy is applying a one size fits all solution. 11 of the 24 hours of programming play WNYL's playlist directly. Even in the 13 hours remaining 95% of the music is all the same anyway regardless of market. I don't think Dallas and Seattle view Alternative the same way New York does, but they're doing the New York solution anyway.

WNYL being what it is makes sense. The longest-lasting Alternative in NYC pre-WNYL was none other than Z100 from fall '93 to spring '96, although even at the peak of its Alt phase Z100 was still playing Madonna and Coolio currents. So obviously NYC likes recognizable pop mixed in with alternative rock. However WNYL's ratings remain among the lowest of full-power stations in NYC so I'm wondering if the music is the problem or if it's the presentation. The edgier skits of the 90's that Z100 DJs did during that station's Alt phase don't fly anymore in modern society but I doubt that's all it is.

And regardless, whatever WNYL alternative is, other cities don't seem to care for it. Most of the Alts doing decent-to-excellent in the ratings have a rock lean, whether indie or Active. I think audiences want guitars back in the spotlight and that's putting Audacy stations at a disadvantage. I'm not even sure Audacy stations would have any rock-leaning currents at all right now if the pop-punk explosion hadn't happened.

(weirdly that's why Machine Gun Kelly is on the format right now, he changed his genre from hip-hop to pop-punk - listen to "Bloody Valentine" for a perfect example of how different he sounds now)

 

[TheBigA]

The issue is that Audacy is applying a one size fits all solution.

Isn't that what Sirius does? Aren't other curated radio stations on Spotify and Apple programmed as one size fits all? Doesn't the music industry release music that way? When alternative artists tour, don't they try to play everywhere?

 

[macattack]

Isn't that what Sirius does? Aren't other curated radio stations on Spotify and Apple programmed as one size fits all? Doesn't the music industry release music that way? When alternative artists tour, don't they try to play everywhere?

FM radio isn't the same thing as SiriusXM, Spotify playlists, or sending music onto the internet or retail stores. Tours and FM radio are like comparing a bag of chips to oranges. Different distribution, different expectations.

Five Finger Death Punch likely has enough fans in New York City to fill a venue, but that doesn't mean the majority of FM listeners there want to hear "A Little Bit Off" or "Inside Out" on the airwaves.

 

[TheBigA]

FM radio isn't the same thing as SiriusXM, Spotify playlists, or sending music onto the internet or retail stores. Tours and FM radio are like comparing a bag of chips to oranges. Different distribution, different expectations.

Maybe at one time, but today's music fans don't see things that way.

 

[macattack]

Maybe at one time, but today's music fans don't see things that way.

There have always been artists who are nationally popular, and venues that kickstart national popularity. The Ed Sullivan Show broke The Beatles nationwide for example. TikTok is simply the newest and trendiest delivery system for national popularity. There will be another when TikTok fades, and so on.

I live in the outskirts of Chicago suburbia and a ton of people, including teenagers I work with, know who Shinedown and Foo Fighters are. The people I know from NYC don't have the foggiest clue who Shinedown is (only one even remembered "Second Chance") and are unaware of Foo Fighters post-Sonic Highways or aren't even aware they did anything after "The Pretender". Obviously anecdotal evidence is not the same as a scientific poll but I think it says something about music and regional popularity - and that WNYL's decision to ignore new Foo Fighters songs have had an effect on exposure in NYC.

 

[TheBigA]

WNYL's decision to ignore new Foo Fighters songs have had an effect on exposure in NYC.

That's not the radio station's problem. The Foo Fighters and their record label and their fans have the option of making that case to Mike Kaplan and the management of WNYL if it is important to them. Otherwise the radio station is pursuing a music policy that it feels represents the audience it wants to target.

 

[macattack]

That's not the radio station's problem. The Foo Fighters and their record label and their fans have the option of making that case to Mike Kaplan and the management of WNYL if it is important to them. Otherwise the radio station is pursuing a music policy that it feels represents the audience it wants to target.

If you honestly think the RCA did not make that case considering they sent the song for adds I got a bridge to sell you. Kaplan clearly was unmoved.

Honestly the only artists that were relevant to Alternative pre-2015 that WNYL is playing right now are Cage The Elephant, Mike Shinoda, and Imagine Dragons (WNYL was actually the final station on the panel to add "Follow You", waiting almost a month before picking it up). I have a feeling that the only reason why they picked Cage up was because of the 2020 Grammy win as well, and likely Mike was picked up because he has the co-singer of the #1 Hot 100 hit "Mood", Iann Dior, as a guest artist on "Happy Endings".

Considering Kaplan's public primary demo target are 25-34 adults, I don't think limiting the amount of veteran artists in the current selection is a smart call - unless his actual primary demo target skews much younger than 25-34.

 

[BeachBaby]

They don't bill enough to either pivot or flex.

And yet, they do.

That has to be a very frugal operation, and the owner likely does not make very much even in a good year. I'll bet they lost considerable revenue in 2020.

Of course they did, with the loss of event-based promotions and concert advertising. So what? Hasn't just about every serious music station out there?

Why would a person who is likely making a mediocre salary at a lower revenue station decide to retire and make way for a younger person? What person who works for a company that has no full retirement plan other than, maybe, a 401-k, is going to leave a job that perhaps they like a lot to enable a younger person to take the position? That sounds like a movie on the Hallmark Channel.

Why on earth would you assume I meant he should retire? Almost every program director who helmed WEQX since 1991 has gone on to major markets. Denver, Toronto, LA, Philly, Minneapolis. Others, including non-PDs, have gone on to vp levels at labels, XM, and outside industry.

I don't know what your beef is with this station but your responses make you look petulant and needing to make your point. It's pretty clear you know or care nothing of its history of competitiveness, how well it serves its market, and the professional caliber of its staff.

(Hint: the owner can act as gsm, gm, and traffic because she's not putting out fires all day)

 

[Theater of My Mind]

That's not the radio station's problem. The Foo Fighters and their record label and their fans have the option of making that case to Mike Kaplan and the management of WNYL if it is important to them. Otherwise the radio station is pursuing a music policy that it feels represents the audience it wants to target.

The fans are making their case. Have you seen the ratings?

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know what your beef is with this station but your responses make you look petulant and needing to make your point. It's pretty clear you know or care nothing of its history of competitiveness, how well it serves its market, and the professional caliber of its staff.

(Hint: the owner can act as gsm, gm, and traffic because she's not putting out fires all day)

My beef is that some are using this station as an example of a major successful Alt station. It is not. It is a rimshot, and it has annual billing that is about half the average annual sales of a Pizza Hut restaurant. It's around 15th in billing in what is a smaller medium market.

The fact that the owner does five or six different things is a) typical of very small stations and, b) necessary because the station does not bill enough to have / need a larger staff. And that limited billing really restricts such a station's ability to move into new media successfully.

There is nothing wrong with small stations, but using one that is a rimshot as an example of major or significant Alt programming is pushing the limits of credibility.

 

[davideduardo]

The fans are making their case. Have you seen the ratings?

Rock, whether traditional AOR or Alt or anything else is losing share and partisans nationally... and world-wide for that matter. The issue here is whether any newer blend of any kind of rock can revive or stabilize the decline.

Whether one station plays a particular artist's newer songs is not the issue. It is about the whole genre, in fact.

Long ago I was at some music tests for alt stations. The fascinating thing was the polarization; there were sub-groups that hated what the other sub groups liked and there was little music that everyone agreed on. That makes Alt the perfect genre for online, on demand services or one online "station" that has three or four varieties that match the subsets.

 

[TheBigA]

The fans are making their case. Have you seen the ratings?

As we've been saying through this thread, this is not the traditional approach to alternative. It's a very different format. They are sticking their necks out by playing some of this music. I wouldn't do things this way if it was my job on the line, because it's not going to get big ratings right now. But we've also discussed that this genre could easily fall into the rut of "classic alternative," and just play a bunch of 30 year old songs people know. In fact, some of these very stations got good ratings doing that. But it becomes stale musically if all you do is play old songs.

So as I said, this is basically a new format. With any new format, it will take time to find it's audience, especially when we know that on-air radio isn't the first choice for this demographic. It also won't really pay any dividends until the festivals get cranked up again, and people feel comfortable going to live shows. That may be this summer, it may be in the fall. Come back in a year, and we'll see if things have improved. If not, they'll go back to playing 90s alt again.

 

[BeachBaby]

My beef is that some are using this station as an example of a major successful Alt station.

It's not Live105 or KROQ, but it's not the failure you're claiming it is and dismissing.

It is not. It is a rimshot, and it has annual billing that are about half the average annual sales of a Pizza Hut restaurant. It's around 15th in billing in what is a smaller medium market.

Asking again: are you talking about current or pre-covid billing?

 

[davideduardo]

It's not Live105 or KROQ, but it's not the failure you're claiming it is and dismissing.

Actually, I think at the moment it is better off than the walking dead station that is KROQ.

However, I am not saying and did not say it was a failure. It is simply a small rimshot niche station that bills less than the average US radio station. Pretending that it is significant or a trend-setter is disingenuous.

Asking again: are you talking about current or pre-covid billing?

Looking at 2012 to 2019.

 

[narp]

Shame. WEQX should be the trendsetter alt. I don’t even completely prefer their particular format (I would program less of the slower AAA tracks) but the variety more than makes up for it. And theoretically, a station run like WEQX could be molded to fit whatever the local market desired, still with the massive variety.

 

[tall_guy1]

That's not quite accurate.

The highest Spring (Apr-May-Jun) or Fall (Oct-Nov-Dec) PPM averages I can find are an abnormal 6.6 in Fall of '16. Spring of 2016 was a 4.9 and Spring of ´17 was a 4.5. From then on, it went to a 3.8, a 3.4 and after Spring of 2018 never got into the 3's again.

Entercom bought KRBZ from Sinclair in 1999, so they seem to have done well with it for the first 15 to 16 years, and then it disintegrated. Since Entercom got rid of most of the CBS staff that was "too expensive" I would look elsewhere for the reasons why from 2016 on it started decaying bit by bit.

Entercom did not "merge" with CBS. The sale was done by a Reverse Morris Trust where CBS shareholders, not the company, got a percentage of Entercom's shares. CBS, the corporation, was left with no part of Entercom and most of its top radio executives left or were "downsized" soon after.

I did notice some playlist changes right after the merger, though. It wasn't bad at that time, but I remember hearing more gold tracks on their playlist and went closer to a "standard" alternative sound, whereas before the station was almost weqx-lite.

 

[Delete My Account]

When Lazlo did the music, and they were able to do promotions, the Buzz had a good run as a new music forward, breaking bands type of station. I had always hoped Lazlo's style and taste would influence the rest of Entercom's alternative stations but sadly, it seems to have been the inverse. Don't know Kaplan personally, but not a fan of whatever this is supposed to be, and it's devalued some good stations and programmers in the process.