US Domestic Shortwave

[davideduardo]

How would anybody know without any numbers? I remember Ralph Carlson telling me that the ad agencies just couldn't grasp the concept of shortwave. Funny thing is, KUSW was really just broadcasting rock and roll to millions of potential listeners in the northeast and Canada, like most other stations. Just using different bands.

But radio ratings in every market showed, in that era, every station that got above a minimum of a 0.1 share of audience, whether local or not, was shown. If any SW station had had a salable audience, they could have combined the national numbers and made a pitch. But they had no national numbers. I very much doubt if any of those SW stations ever "made the book" in any US metro area in the last 40 or 50 years. I've looked at millions of Arbitron diaries in my career, and never saw a shortwave station of any kind... not even the BBC.

 

[gr8oldies]

How would anybody know without any numbers? I remember Ralph Carlson telling me that the ad agencies just couldn't grasp the concept of shortwave. Funny thing is, KUSW was really just broadcasting rock and roll to millions of potential listeners in the northeast and Canada, like most other stations. Just using different bands.
The idea was the same....kids, their ears, their money.

Most of the advertising KUSW had were Per Inquiry album commercials as I recall. Potential audience, yes,m but who was really giving up their local FM stations to listen to rock on shortwave?

 

[Mediafrog+]

Even in our Hemisphere, Cap Haitien, Haiti, has about twice as many FMs as the boroughs of New York City and the contiguous counties of NY and NJ.

Interesting that you use Cap Haitien as an example, as it is the home to religious station 4VEH, which once had multiple transmitters on SW for its French/Kreyol and Spanish services. The SW is long gone, but was well known amongst SW listeners in its heyday.

 

[Radig]

Who would put up with the quality of SW when they have dozens of local stations. (No question mark, That's a statement, not a question.)

When the received signal is strong, and the transmitter is correctly adjusted, the sound quality can be excellent (that's a personal observation). The service can further be dramatically improved through the use of DRM.

 

[davideduardo]

When the received signal is strong, and the transmitter is correctly adjusted, the sound quality can be excellent (that's a personal observation). The service can further be dramatically improved through the use of DRM.

There are few DRM receivers in use except India where the AM band is being converted to DRM.

Generally, short wave is long distance AM. Limited fidelity, enhanced by fading, static and theoretically limited bandwidth per the international standards.

Even strong signals that are subject to ionispheric skip for reception are subject to fading.

 

[davideduardo]

Interesting that you use Cap Haitien as an example, as it is the home to religious station 4VEH, which once had multiple transmitters on SW for its French/Kreyol and Spanish services. The SW is long gone, but was well known amongst SW listeners in its heyday.

And 4VEH, when on 1035 kcs., was my longest daytime skip AM DX when living in NE Ohio. Nice, clear signal for more than a half hour right before noon... 1670 miles, give or take.

 

[Radig]

Even strong signals that are subject to ionispheric skip for reception are subject to fading.

True, however the use of AM synchronized reception techniques mitigate that problem nicely!

 

[davideduardo]

True, however the use of AM synchronized reception techniques mitigate that problem nicely!

If you are referring to things like diversity antennae, that's not something the average listener is going to do.

 

[Radig]

No, I was referring to AM synchronized detection which is available in several SW receivers. Most notably the old Sony ICF-2010 and the Drake R8B. This is when the receiver removes the received carrier and replaces it with its own internally generated one, and the listener can then choose either the lower or upper sideband, or both.

 

[Kent]

OK, I was apparently off by 50% but how many of that 779K number of licensed hams are active?

I’ve kept my license for almost 30 years but haven’t been active in a long time. I got my license after my girlfriend and I split up in the middle of my junior year of high school. I was active for about a year, but, halfway through my senior year, I started dating again. I was active sporadically after that and haven’t hit the PTT button since the end of my freshman year of college.

From that brief time I was active, I remember occasionally hearing rock music on SW. I always thought it was WRNO Worldwide as I'd heard it was largely simulcasting WRNO 99.5 at that time (1992-93). I don’t remember if I ever listened long enough to get an ID.

 

[Radig]

These days WTWW, Lebanon, TN, has retro TOP 40 on most nights on 5085 kHz (Interestingly their 100 KW transmitter has RF spikes 13 kHz each side of the carrier).

WRMI, Okeechobee, FL, does have some interesting music shows on various frequencies throughout the week.

 

[KeithE4]

No, I was referring to AM synchronized detection which is available in several SW receivers. Most notably the old Sony ICF-2010 and the Drake R8B. This is when the receiver removes the received carrier and replaces it with its own internally generated one, and the listener can then choose either the lower or upper sideband, or both.

In other words, it uses the BFO for Ancient Modulation reception as well as SSB and CW. Everything has to be rock stable, though, or you'll get a heterodyne.

 

[kenglish]

In other words, it uses the BFO for Ancient Modulation reception as well as SSB and CW. Everything has to be rock stable, though, or you'll get a heterodyne.

Then, why do they even make it? Most companies do whatever they can to eliminate "unnecessary" features (see "RFI" and "FCC Part 15" for examples).

 

[kenglish]

Do people ONLY listen to stations on the basis of their modulation scheme? KUSW was listened to because of their music format, their on-air talent, and the idea that listening can be fun (Listener's Clubs, and the camaraderie of like-minded listeners).
They were born of a top-rated rock station (KRSP), which might have been an advantage for them. Too bad that electric rates got in the way 😒.

 

[davideduardo]

Do people ONLY listen to stations on the basis of their modulation scheme? KUSW was listened to because of their music format, their on-air talent, and the idea that listening can be fun (Listener's Clubs, and the camaraderie of like-minded listeners).
They were born of a top-rated rock station (KRSP), which might have been an advantage for them. Too bad that electric rates got in the way 😒.

People don't listen to something that sound "less" if they have the choice of a similar product that sounds better. The issue with SW is that, from the early 50's onward, the combination of new music formats on local stations (such as Top 40, r&b, easy listening, country), and far more local stations every year made looking for music on propaganda-laden SW challenging and not very rewarding. As FM took over music in the early 70's, few SW radios were available any longer and FM just sounded better.

So, gradually from the 40's through the 70's the need for SW in the US decline to essentially nothing. It's been 43 years since FM took over half of all listening, and about 45 years since it took over music listening. Nobody will listen to lesser quality unless there is no other option.

 

[kenglish]

Even if they are looking for an "option" that is only on a particular (in this case, shortwave) station?

 

[Radig]

In other words, it uses the BFO for Ancient Modulation reception as well as SSB and CW. Everything has to be rock stable, though, or you'll get a heterodyne.

Yes, but a little more involved. The replica of the carrier signal has to preserve the phase relationship of the original signal. When properly done it works well. I'm surprised that the modern Chinese SW receivers have not really incorporated this important function.

 

[Radig]

People don't listen to something that sound "less" if they have the choice of a similar product that sounds better.

Maybe I'm different, but I absolutely preferred listening to the BBC on 15070 kHz on my Phillips DC777 car radio than I do on Sirius/XM. It didn't sound "less" to me on SW, but it sure does sound less on the satellite!

 

[TomásEstefan]

Yes, but a little more involved. The replica of the carrier signal has to preserve the phase relationship of the original signal. When properly done it works well. I'm surprised that the modern Chinese SW receivers have not really incorporated this important function.

I'm guessing your talking about synchronous detection where the receiver in effect supplies it own carrier thus eliminating sky wave selective fading distortion.

 

[Radig]

I'm guessing your talking about synchronous detection where the receiver in effect supplies it own carrier thus eliminating sky wave selective fading distortion.

Yes, that's it exactly.