Is Alternative dead and how can it go forward?

[semoochie]

They might as well rename the format then and change the focus.

“Soft Alternative”

That format already has a name, "Modern AC".

 

[tall_guy1]

I don’t really think we should worry about AUDACY alts too far into the future, especially since most of their ratings are pretty bad. iHearts on the other hand, those are probably staying for a while in their current state.

True. I'd be surprised if two years down the line that format sticks.

 

[MarkW]

Indeed, I've been hearing more pop/punk currents and especially pop/punk gold on Audacy's low rated disgrace in Detroit, Alt 98.7. (I like to call it "Fault 98.7".)

Gold tracks in general seem to be receiving somewhat more airplay these days, which is a good thing in my market, but the overall song variety leaves a gigantic amount to be desired and the afternoon show is a truly awful fit for the brand.

It's clear Mike Kaplan is either completely out of touch with the Detroit market or simply doesn't care to expend any effort based on the song choices.

Here are some of the artists the station *should* be playing (or be playing more frequently than present):
- Linkin Park
- Pearl Jam
- Nirvana
- Nine Inch Nails
- Coheed & Cambria
- Silversun Pickups
- The Killers
- Awolnation
- Foster the People
- Flobots
- Our Lady Peace
- Big Wreck
- 311
- Cake
- Primus
- Tool
- Rage Against The Machine
- System of a Down
- Three Days Grace
- Live
- Breaking Benjamin
- Sum 41
- Rise Against
- Jimmy Eat World
- Franz Ferdinand
- Capital Cities
- Ayron Jones
- Staind
- Greta Van Fleet
- Deftones
- Stone Sour
- The Offspring
- Audioslave / Soundgarden

I'd play no more than 3 currents/recurrents hourly. Station should be very gold oriented.

Crap such as "Absolutely, Story of a Girl" by Nine Days needs to be completely stricken from the playlist.

In terms of the format's viability as a terrestrial radio format, I think programming to individual market tastes is key. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be happening very often these days.

91X in San Diego, DC 101 in Washington, WLUM in Milwaukee, Channel 93.3 in Denver and 101X in Austin are examples of stations that do a good job of programming to their individual respective markets.

Nearly all of the Audacy alternative stations, Cumulus-owned Alt 92.3 in New Orleans, and WXXJ in Jacksonville, FL fail miserably in that area.

 

[TheBigA]

It's clear Mike Kaplan is either completely out of touch with the Detroit market or simply doesn't care to expend any effort based on the song choices.

I don't know where you came up with this idea that Mike Kaplan is making song choices for Detroit. The station has an official Music Director who is assigned that specific task. Sure he carries out the overall strategy the company wants to follow. But to say Kaplan is making individual song choices is wrong.

I'd play no more than 3 currents/recurrents hourly. Station should be very gold oriented.

The format has gone through ten years of being gold oriented. Sure that's an easy way to boost the 6+ numbers and attract an older audience who wants to live in the 90s. But that's not really why you have a station in this format. A lot of those same 25-30 year old songs are starting to get played on the classic hits station as it ages into the 90s. So programmers need to find a new direction for alternative.

 

[MarkW]

I suspect you are wrong on the first point. Music in most dayparts airs on multiple stations and is piped in remotely. This is obvious, because there is no RDS song data available in those dayparts. The dayparts of local origin, which are mainly confined to portions of the weekend, have properly functioning RDS song and artist data.

Tim Roberts is far more preoccupied with 104.3 and 99.5 to concern himself too much with 98.7. I also doubt he has much personal familiarity with the music or format.

The station is an afterthought and nothing more on the local level. Multiple commercial slots continue to be filled with PSAs, too.

Within five years (probably less), I predict Detroit's 98.7 will become the new FM home for Newsradio WWJ. I also think 103.7 in Dallas will become the new FM home of 1080 KRLD.

I also disagree on your last point; some reasonable song overlap between formats is good. Classic Hits and AC coexist fine, as do Classic Rock and Classic Hits, and Hot AC and CHR.

FWIW, a number of the artists on my earlier list were most relevant in the 00s.

 

[TheBigA]

Tim Roberts is far more preoccupied with 104.3 and 99.5 to concern himself too much with 98.7.

Tim Roberts is not the Music Director. There is a person specifically in charge of that station.

You keep looking for some enemy to blame. These are just people doing their job. You don't like it? Change the station.

 

[macattack]

Indeed, I've been hearing more pop/punk currents and especially pop/punk gold on Audacy's low rated disgrace in Detroit, Alt 98.7. (I like to call it "Fault 98.7".)

Gold tracks in general seem to be receiving somewhat more airplay these days, which is a good thing in my market, but the overall song variety leaves a gigantic amount to be desired and the afternoon show is a truly awful fit for the brand.

It's clear Mike Kaplan is either completely out of touch with the Detroit market or simply doesn't care to expend any effort based on the song choices.

Here are some of the artists the station *should* be playing (or be playing more frequently than present):
- Linkin Park
- Pearl Jam
- Nirvana
- Nine Inch Nails
- Coheed & Cambria
- Silversun Pickups
- The Killers
- Awolnation
- Foster the People
- Flobots
- Our Lady Peace
- Big Wreck
- 311
- Cake
- Primus
- Tool
- Rage Against The Machine
- System of a Down
- Three Days Grace
- Live
- Breaking Benjamin
- Sum 41
- Rise Against
- Jimmy Eat World
- Franz Ferdinand
- Capital Cities
- Ayron Jones
- Staind
- Greta Van Fleet
- Deftones
- Stone Sour
- The Offspring
- Audioslave / Soundgarden

I'd play no more than 3 currents/recurrents hourly. Station should be very gold oriented.

Crap such as "Absolutely, Story of a Girl" by Nine Days needs to be completely stricken from the playlist.

In terms of the format's viability as a terrestrial radio format, I think programming to individual market tastes is key. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be happening very often these days.

91X in San Diego, DC 101 in Washington, WLUM in Milwaukee, Channel 93.3 in Denver and 101X in Austin are examples of stations that do a good job of programming to their individual respective markets.

Nearly all of the Audacy alternative stations, Cumulus-owned Alt 92.3 in New Orleans, and WXXJ in Jacksonville, FL fail miserably in that area.

Honestly if you want Alts that put a lot of emphasis on 2000's hits as their gold base KROX and KPNT are the way to go. They are fairly fearless with spinning the heavy rock that was 75% of the hits back then.

 

[MarkW]

The music director largely follows marching orders from above. You're placing far too much weight on the role the MD has in shaping the overall sound of the station, BigA, especially this one.

Vast majority of the content and music on 98.7 is piped in from out of town.

Sorry if my blunt commentary offends, but I'm sick and tired of the FM band's slow tranformation into a trash heap.

The only person in that building in Southfield (near Detroit) with any meaningful experience in the format is Holly Hutton, and frankly, she didn't do that great of job at 89X when she was there (just OK, I would say). I will say proper coaching has transformed her into a much improved on-air personality.

One more thought - if 98.7 wants to rely on air talent from other markets, fine, but at least allow for significant local music customization, and at least have one daypart anchored by someone sitting in Detroit. The WGN style talk show that airs in afternoons needs to be dumped.

 

[TheBigA]

The music director largely follows marching orders from above.

Of course. Everybody does, including the CEO. But at least they have an MD for this station in Detroit. Mike Kaplan doesn't spend his day picking out songs to play in Detroit. He's several levels above that decision. He's more involved in budget and strategy. The business side of the radio business.

Sorry if my blunt commentary offends, but I'm sick and tired of the FM band's slow tranformation into a trash heap.

Format radio is designed to be consistent and dependable. I've heard someone compare it to McDonald's french fries. You want them to taste the same no matter where you get them. Now that may sound boring, but some people have different expectations, That's what a format is.

I get tired of reading people make generalizations about the FM band as though it's all format radio from one side to the other. It isn't. If you don't like format radio, tune around and you may hear a student-run college station. You may hear someone's LP hobby station. Or stream stations from other markets. There are lots of options and alternatives if the professional world becomes to predictable. Those options will always be there, no matter who owns the most powerful stations in town. Some people may want the big powerhouses to have some of the unpredictability of the non-commercial world, and they're likely to be disappointed.

 

[tall_guy1]

Of course. Everybody does, including the CEO. But at least they have an MD for this station in Detroit. Mike Kaplan doesn't spend his day picking out songs to play in Detroit. He's several levels above that decision. He's more involved in budget and strategy. The business side of the radio business.



Format radio is designed to be consistent and dependable. I've heard someone compare it to McDonald's french fries. You want them to taste the same no matter where you get them. Now that may sound boring, but some people have different expectations, That's what a format is.

I get tired of reading people make generalizations about the FM band as though it's all format radio from one side to the other. It isn't. If you don't like format radio, tune around and you may hear a student-run college station. You may hear someone's LP hobby station. Or stream stations from other markets. There are lots of options and alternatives if the professional world becomes to predictable. Those options will always be there, no matter who owns the most powerful stations in town. Some people may want the big powerhouses to have some of the unpredictability of the non-commercial world, and they're likely to be disappointed.

I think he's referring to night when wnyl is piped into every audacy alternative from 7 pm to 5 am.

 

[TheBigA]

I think he's referring to night when wnyl is piped into every audacy alternative from 7 pm to 5 am.

I hate to point this out but that's fairly common during those hours regardless of the station or market. Some of the all news stations are running material recorded earlier in the day. This is not something unique to alternative or Audacy.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Here are some of the artists the station *should* be playing (or be playing more frequently than present):

Isn't most of that list active rock rather than alternative?

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know where you came up with this idea that Mike Kaplan is making song choices for Detroit. The station has an official Music Director who is assigned that specific task. Sure he carries out the overall strategy the company wants to follow. But to say Kaplan is making individual song choices is wrong.

Every station is a bit different, but in most situations where there is a music director, that person's principal job is to keep the record ducks from bothering the PD incessantly. Usually, a commercial station MD will assemble the new releases, eliminate the stuff that obviously does not fit the format, look at the trades and airplay monitors and then present it all at a regular music meeting with the PD, where together they pick the songs for the week.

The format has gone through ten years of being gold oriented. Sure that's an easy way to boost the 6+ numbers and attract an older audience who wants to live in the 90s. But that's not really why you have a station in this format. A lot of those same 25-30 year old songs are starting to get played on the classic hits station as it ages into the 90s. So programmers need to find a new direction for alternative.

The main problem is that the audience is fragmented on the newer songs, with groups of listeners who like the gold, but have very separate current tastes. So the format is between the legendary rock and a hard place.

 

[davideduardo]

Isn't most of that list active rock rather than alternative?

That's why stations do music tests... listeners classify music on a scale of hate-dislike-neutral-like-love and do not obsess on putting songs into silos with names on them.

 

[TheBigA]

Every station is a bit different, but in most situations where there is a music director, that person's principal job is to keep the record ducks from bothering the PD incessantly.

The other factor here is that Mediabase and BDS have strict rules about trade reporters and syndication. A certain percentage of the day must be local origination, with music decisions made locally. Those two charts won't allow a station that simply runs a centralized playlist act as a reporter. They will take the national playlist and assign the reporter station to the company, not the station. The reason for this comes from the record labels and artists, who don't want the charts to be controlled by big companies, and don't want to waste time pitching music to a station that doesn't actually make the playlist decisions. David Field said: 'In addition, every station will continue to have its own unique playlist driven by a continued commitment to heavy local research.”

 

[tall_guy1]

Every station is a bit different, but in most situations where there is a music director, that person's principal job is to keep the record ducks from bothering the PD incessantly. Usually, a commercial station MD will assemble the new releases, eliminate the stuff that obviously does not fit the format, look at the trades and airplay monitors and then present it all at a regular music meeting with the PD, where together they pick the songs for the week.

The main problem is that the audience is fragmented on the newer songs, with groups of listeners who like the gold, but have very separate current tastes. So the format is between the legendary rock and a hard place.

Seems like a lot of alternative playlists are fragmented as well, not having a "coherent" sound, which might drive listeners away (again, being an armchair PD). Kaplan is attempting to create a more coherent sound with his stations centered around alt-pop; problem is though, CHR has a lot of those same artists and songs. Leaning more towards AAA or Active Rock might help some stations, but I think a coherent sound is definitely a necessity, regardless of where something leans.

I still wonder if trump had anything to do with alternatives downfall. Country is still doing fine, but maybe since alternative listeners tend to be liberal, if he "harshed" their mellow, which drew them away.

 

[MarkW]

I think he's referring to night when wnyl is piped into every audacy alternative from 7 pm to 5 am.

In 98.7 WDZH's case, you can also add mornings, afternoons and possibly middays to the list. Almost nothing heard on 98.7 during the work week is originated locally.

I've heard someone compare it to McDonald's french fries.

I love Micky D's french fries. FM radio? Not so much these days.

 

[macattack]

Isn't most of that list active rock rather than alternative?

Almost all of them were alternative in the 2000's (or would have been considered Alt if they had debuted then) but the vast majority of those artists were exiled from Alternative in the great purge of 2012, or have not gotten a good chance on Alt due to how the sound changed in the 2010s.

 

[tall_guy1]

In 98.7 WDZH's case, you can also add mornings, afternoons and possibly middays to the list. Almost nothing heard on 98.7 during the work week is originated locally.



I love Micky D's french fries. FM radio? Not so much these days.

I believe there's an individual pd for different audacy alts during the day though, but it's nationally streamlined at night. There's almost no local personally anymore though.

 

[davideduardo]

I believe there's an individual pd for different audacy alts during the day though, but it's nationally streamlined at night. There's almost no local personally anymore though.

The PD is in charge 24/7, even if networked. They manage the local liners and promos and may, if the "network" is a bits and pieces one, do the music log too.