July PPM's

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Is it data nerd syndrome to be intrigued by where there may be things that don’t seem to align at a surface level and become more complex the more pieces of data are available? Maybe so. It’s just fascinating to me to look at things like where billing doesn’t seem to sync with demo ranks, or when demo ranks are wildly different from the total figures?

The points of intersection and divergence are intriguing.

Yeah, I’m boring as all get out, I know.

 

[Miguelito]

Interesting how you reply like a third party. Kind of a cowardly way to debate someone..
I never said ratings don't matter. I said 6+ ratings don't matter, because it's just a fact.
If your station targets an audience consisting of 18-34YO females, then it's very possible to be number one in the demographic that matters, yet show poorly in 6+.
I could go on, if you'd like to learn more about how the business actually works, when it comes to ratings, either David, BigA, or me would be happy to oblige.

Pathetic. Get a life.

 

[JBraddock]

Ooh, look at the "pros" getting all snitty again. I use the term in quotes because you certainly don't sound professional here.

Condescension makes you look small - exactly the opposite of what you hope to achieve by hanging out here.

It might be time to consider increasing the quality/quantity ratio before your readership falls off a cliff and you lose what little influence you have left here.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't actually know. I just remember seeing something on their website under the Radio One section, there were some stations that were called Telemundo. I didn't click on them to see what they actually were though.

Telemundo is a Spanish language TV network; it has no radio operation.

Urban One has a Telemundo-affiliated TV operation, though. Those are not radio operations and are in Columbus, OH.

 

[davideduardo]

If you don't think the ratings matter, then you don't need to comment on the thread. Pretty simple.

Ratings definitely matter.

But, as Kelly said, 6+ (PPM) and 12+ (diary) don't matter and that is why Nielsen gives the data away. That data is worth every penny you pay for it, too.

A good example: during the many years that WFAN was #1 in revenue in New York City, it averaged 15th in the 12+ Arbitron numbers. But it was the leader in 25-54 men, and delivered them with no "waste" in female listening for clients who wanted pure male consumers.

At the other end of this is WDUV in Tampa. It was #1 12+ for over a decade, but in 25-54 it was around 14th. Guess what? It was about 15th in annual billing in the market.

Most of us who look at the numbers for "our" stations never even look at 6+ or 12+. That's because doing so can jaundice our judgement on how the station is performing.

 

[davideduardo]

Pathetic. Get a life.

Kelly's response was totally accurate: 6+ or 12+ ratings are worthless. He is simply pointing out that neither stations nor advertisers look at that data, which is why Nielsen gives it away for free.

 

[Miguelito]

Telemundo is a Spanish language TV network; it has no radio operation.

Urban One has a Telemundo-affiliated TV operation, though. Those are not radio operations and are in Columbus, OH.

I thought it was weird when I saw it there because I was pretty sure I had clicked a link to see their radio stations. It was a while ago and I don't even know if they're still on the website. I guess they had links for TV stations mixed in with their radio stations.

 

[Miguelito]

Ratings definitely matter.

But, as Kelly said, 6+ (PPM) and 12+ (diary) don't matter and that is why Nielsen gives the data away. That data is worth every penny you pay for it, too.

A good example: during the many years that WFAN was #1 in revenue in New York City, it averaged 15th in the 12+ Arbitron numbers. But it was the leader in 25-54 men, and delivered them with no "waste" in female listening for clients who wanted pure male consumers.

At the other end of this is WDUV in Tampa. It was #1 12+ for over a decade, but in 25-54 it was around 14th. Guess what? It was about 15th in annual billing in the market.

Most of us who look at the numbers for "our" stations never even look at 6+ or 12+. That's because doing so can jaundice our judgement on how the station is performing.

I appreciate how you always give examples. I think you know that almost everyone here already knows this stuff. Everyone knows that there are demo breakdowns and that Sales and advertisers slice & dice things to the nth degree. And everyone knows that Sales and advertisers don't look at 6+ and 12+ numbers. Those are the numbers we have access to so those are the numbers that we discuss every month. We know the limitations inherent in the data we are discussing. Except to be contrary, there's really no use saying "this doesn't matter" (paraphrasing) with no further context. It's been said a million times.

 

[davideduardo]

I thought it was weird when I saw it there because I was pretty sure I had clicked a link to see their radio stations. It was a while ago and I don't even know if they're still on the website. I guess they had links for TV stations mixed in with their radio stations.

They are still on the site, and you are correct that for some reason they are listed on the radio page.

Trivia: the name "Telemundo" was first used by WKAQ, Channel 2, in San Juan. It was put on the air by the El Mundo newspaper, which also had WKAQ, Radio El Mundo, named after the newspaper. Until the later 70's, El Mundo was the largest circulation paper in PR, and the only one that was not tabloid formatted. (I didn't like it, and read El Nuevo Día which was affiliated with my party, the PNP. El Mundo was definitely with the PPD)

That name was adopted when WKAQ-TV became part of what was to become the Telemundo network, which adopted their name since, at the time, WKAQ-TV produced a lot of Spanish language TV shows that were used outside of the Island.

From Wikipedia:

Originally launched as NetSpan in 1984, the network was renamed Telemundo in 1987, after the network owners purchased the previous owner of WKAQ-TV (channel 2), a television station in San Juan, Puerto Rico, branded on air as Telemundo. WKAQ-TV was signed on on March 28, 1954, and was originally founded by Ángel Ramos – owner of Puerto Rico's main newspaper at the time, El Mundo, and the U.S. territory's first radio station, WKAQ (also known as "Radio El Mundo"). Ramos wanted to maintain a consistent branding for his media properties based around the "mundo" theme (the Spanish word for "world"), and chose to brand his new television property as "Telemundo" (in effect, translating to "Teleworld" or "World TV"). On April 14, 1983, Ramos sold WKAQ-TV to John Blair & Co.

 

[Kelly A]

I appreciate how you always give examples. I think you know that almost everyone here already knows this stuff. Everyone knows that there are demo breakdowns and that Sales and advertisers slice & dice things to the nth degree. And everyone knows that Sales and advertisers don't look at 6+ and 12+ numbers. Those are the numbers we have access to so those are the numbers that we discuss every month. We know the limitations inherent in the data we are discussing. Except to be contrary, there's really no use saying "this doesn't matter" (paraphrasing) with no further context. It's been said a million times.

Would have been happy to give you further context, but not if you accuse me of being wrong and told me my comments weren't welcome. Claiming stations are somehow not doing well, or surprisingly well based on 6+ or 12+ published ratings are simply inaccurate assumptions. If you'd prefer to use 6+ numbers and use them as some sort of fantasy football game-like thing, go for it. But as David solidified my original comment; 6+ is not reality.

 

[Miguelito]

Would have been happy to give you further context, but not if you accuse me of being wrong and told me my comments weren't welcome. Claiming stations are somehow not doing well, or surprisingly well based on 6+ or 12+ published ratings are simply inaccurate assumptions. If you'd prefer to use 6+ numbers and use them as some sort of fantasy football game-like thing, go for it. But as David solidified my original comment; 6+ is not reality.

I wonder how many people would say your comment was welcome. It was a bomb-throwing and nothing else. It was the equivalent of saying "This conversation is pointless" and walking away. It was contrary and argumentative. And having to say "David solidified my original comment." So telling. So childish. You've offered nothing new, certainly nothing constructive, and you are obviously here to argue. That's why you're added to my Ignore list. I implore you to add me to yours.

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder how many people would say your comment was welcome. It was a bomb-throwing and nothing else. It was the equivalent of saying "This conversation is pointless" and walking away. It was contrary and argumentative. And having to say "David solidified my original comment." So telling. So childish. You've offered nothing new, certainly nothing constructive, and you are obviously here to argue. That's why you're added to my Ignore list. I implore you to add me to yours.

I feel that Kelly's opinions are very valid. Like many of us, he began "in the trenches" and worked his way up to ownership and management. We disagree on a number of points, but that's normal in life and in broadcasting.

The fact remains that 6+ and 12+ numbers have no value. They are tantamount to a pissing contest... or as Kelly says, Fantasy Football.

Agreeing to disagree is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

 

[Miguelito]

I feel that Kelly's opinions are very valid. Like many of us, he began "in the trenches" and worked his way up to ownership and management. We disagree on a number of points, but that's normal in life and in broadcasting.

The fact remains that 6+ and 12+ numbers have no value. They are tantamount to a pissing contest... or as Kelly says, Fantasy Football.

Agreeing to disagree is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

This whole thread has been turned into a pissing contest. LOL. If I disagreed with something you said (which I don't think has ever happened), what if I quoted your entire post and simply added the comment "Nope"? And then if you took issue with how I responded, I just doubled down on my rudeness?

Whoever this Kelly person is, his background means absolutely nothing to me because the issue here is his attitude; not what he knows or doesn't know. And at any rate, he's on the ignore list so he can agree or disagree with me or anyone else in as friendly or rude a manner as he chooses. Won't matter to me.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

So how about that TDY.

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

 

[Kelly A]

This whole thread has been turned into a pissing contest. LOL. If I disagreed with something you said (which I don't think has ever happened), what if I quoted your entire post and simply added the comment "Nope"? And then if you took issue with how I responded, I just doubled down on my rudeness?

Whoever this Kelly person is, his background means absolutely nothing to me because the issue here is his attitude; not what he knows or doesn't know. And at any rate, he's on the ignore list so he can agree or disagree with me or anyone else in as friendly or rude a manner as he chooses. Won't matter to me.

All this because I stated a short and succinct fact? There was no bombs thrown by me. Go back and look at the thread again. I simply stated that 6+ doesn't matter. Just because you disagreed, doesn't warrant personal attacks or telling me my facts don't matter. After all, isn't this is a 'discussion board'?

 

[Miguelito]

The PPM analysis (25-54, 18-34, and 18-49) is up at All Access.

WMMR continued their impressive run atop 25-54 (double digits) and 18-49. WDAS went up across the board. B101 saw a slight decrease in 18-49 but still good for 3rd place. They had a "huge increase" 18-34 and saw their highest (non-Christmas) 25-54 number in almost a year. WMGK dropped across the board. BEN-FM rebounded 25-54, up to 4th place. WXTU dropped across the board. Q102 tied with WPEN for 11th place in 18-34.

No mention of many stations: WISX, WOGL, WTDY, Power 99, or any of the Urban One stations. Your guess is as good as mine!

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[AbrahamJSimpson]

So it seems again as a broad statement, it’s good to be Beasley in Philly.

 

[victorres43]

Wow, WRNB is beating WKXW, WPST, and WSTW in cume by just a little.

In contrast to Beasley, it's not so good to be Urban One in Philly. 105.3 WDAS-FM is still hard to beat.

 

[atthestars]

Maybe Radio One should start thinking about Moving Classix to 100.3? Since they're doing well 🤔

I've wondered that, but also wondered if they would gain any significant listenership in the suburbs if they were put on the bigger signal?

 

[Miguelito]

I've wondered that, but also wondered if they would gain any significant listenership in the suburbs if they were put on the bigger signal?

I feel like they've swapped formats between their signals a buncha times since they came to town. Am I misremembering?