I'd LOVE to see the 18-34F numbers for KUBE. My guess is easily in the top 10. I still bet that KZOK beats 'em though.
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Lowest KUBE ratings ever, in December PPM
- Thread starter crainbebo
- Start date
There are fewer than 10 stations in the market making a concerted effort to target that demo. If KUBE isn't top 10 in that demo, something is seriously wrong (and that is a distinct possibility).
If KUBE were to go away, what would replace it? I suspect a Spanish language format of some kind or a relocation of AM 950's programming to FM would be the most likely possibilities.
A similar iHM station in Boston (Jam'n 94.5) experienced major ratings challenges a couple years ago and dug its way out of the rut. It is now performing OK. We will see if KUBE can make a similar recovery.
If KUBE were to go away, what would replace it? I suspect a Spanish language format of some kind or a relocation of AM 950's programming to FM would be the most likely possibilities.
A similar iHM station in Boston (Jam'n 94.5) experienced major ratings challenges a couple years ago and dug its way out of the rut. It is now performing OK. We will see if KUBE can make a similar recovery.
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Okay, it may be true that 6+ numbers mean nothing, but when have we seen a station flip format when its 6+ numbers were decent? The one example I could think of was when Entercom flipped 94.1 KMPS to Soft AC, but with them already having a country station in the market an argument could have been made for a flip at either 94.1 or 100.7. That was the result of two companies combining though, and I don't see anything like that coming down soon. The question for 93.3 though, as has already been brought up, is what would they flip it to? Although it was on a rimshot signal, they already tried FM sports and it didn't work. I either see Hot AC to compete directly with Star as Kiss was doing pretty well with that format, or Alternative to either compete with KNDD or drive a wedge between KNDD and KISW. If they really want to try FM Sports again, I'd do it on 96.5 if I were them, and move Jack to 93.3. I say this because since I left the market, Jack has picked up some play by play, so it would make sense to put the sports format on the frequency that's already doing some sports coverage.
That’s just silly. Jack does well and the cost to operate is nearly zero. An occasional sports event is not a reason to flip.
If anything bury KUBE for good and move KJR there.
At this point, KUBE is around to ensure that KHTP doesn’t collect the entire market share. Even still, this scenario raises questions about whether or not a market like Seattle can support two hip-hop radio stations. From a business perspective, it may be better to leave an underperforming format alone than to give up the listeners that they already have to try something new.
Fair enough, but it's still just talk.
The idea of 'winners and losers' in most media is relative. Is BIN 850 (which I mentioned upthread) a winner, or a loser, for example? If one looks just at the ratings (and I'm sure that as low as the 6+'s are, the 'real' ones are not drastically better), it appears to be a loser.
But if it's actually gaining more and more of its target audience, then it's winning. According to another version of the 6+ ratings that shows cume that I found, BIN may have 13K listeners. If that's 13K up from 5K or 10K, that would be a win.
you missed Kelly’s point: CHR stations find a lot of songs today to be unplayable due to lyrics and FCC regulation of profanity. That limits the appeal as streams can play all the hit songs that radio can not touch.
Flankers are often simply second tier, often designed to complement a cluster partner and create an obligatory buy.
True enough. What Crainbebo and several others who 'can't believe (XXXX)- station is so bad' seem to forget, is it's one station among others in a group. Sales from agencies usually aren't intended to run on one station, but within the demographic spread served by one or more of the stations in the group. Even though a particular station isn't your cup of tea, or the 6+ public-facing ratings are low, doesn't mean the station isn't serving a purpose or contributing revenue to the group. After all, the single station is part of the overall business, not a stand alone business in itself. Even if the target demos usually served by a pop station, it allows the group one end of the demographic reach the group provides to agencies. Besides, it's not unusual to have at least one or more stations within a group to be more profitable than others. Ultimately, it's a team effort.
As was mentioned, pop as a format has serious competition from streaming and smartphone playlists. None of that music has its content edited for airplay.
It actually flipped in March of 1981. I was a student on the other side of the state at the time and remember my surprise at hearing the Police ("Don't Stand So Close To Me") playing on a long-time religious station when I was coming back to the west side for spring vacation. But regardless of what happens to the station now, they've surely had a phenomenally long run.
"Next to zero" means you have no business experience.
The station pays engineering, utilities, insurance, music licensing fees, the syndicator's fees, legal, property tax, rental or maintenance/taxes on the transmitter site, accounting, a portion of management costs, traffic, and lots more.
That's not true. Everything from AC to CHR to the Spanish language and sports formats targets 18-34, either directly or as part of 18-49, 25-54, 25-44 as well as the ethnic and gender breaks.
iHeart has a rounded 27% of market revenue. Hubbard has 13%, Bonneville 18% and Audacy 24%. Each of those clusters sells its stations in packages for many local and agency accounts.
Think of a WalMart... some departments make less money and some are seasonal loss leaders. But together, in combination, they beat out all other retailers because they can respond to nearly every advertiser need with a package of stations.
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You are mixing and matching age groups. I'm referring specifically to stations whose primary aim is to reach listeners 18-34 or Relatively few stations view 18 to 34 (or some subset within those lower and upper bounds) as the primary target. Most on the FM dial have a target median listener age of 30-something or 40-something.
If an AC performs well in 18 to 34, good for them, but that is essentially "gravy." Most advertisers on such stations are interested in reaching listeners in their 30s, 40s and perhaps even 50s. Advertising strategies for such stations are crafted accordingly.
KUBE's primary job is to deliver young adult listeners. If it is performing poorly in that regard, then its right to exist is questionable. It may or may not be performing poorly in that regard.
If it is only, say, 9th or 10th place in 18-34 and is performing, say, around 16th or 17th in 25-54, then the spot rates KUBE will be capable of commanding are likely quite weak. (I am using those ranks for illustrative purposes only; I do not know where the station actually ranks.)
If an AC performs well in 18 to 34, good for them, but that is essentially "gravy." Most advertisers on such stations are interested in reaching listeners in their 30s, 40s and perhaps even 50s. Advertising strategies for such stations are crafted accordingly.
KUBE's primary job is to deliver young adult listeners. If it is performing poorly in that regard, then its right to exist is questionable. It may or may not be performing poorly in that regard.
If it is only, say, 9th or 10th place in 18-34 and is performing, say, around 16th or 17th in 25-54, then the spot rates KUBE will be capable of commanding are likely quite weak. (I am using those ranks for illustrative purposes only; I do not know where the station actually ranks.)
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That's not true. The primary target of CHR, Churban, Urban and a number of Hispanic formats have 18-34 as all or part of their core.
Few stations target 25-54, either. They are 35-54, 25-44, etc. When they research it is even narrower.
Major market CHRs likely research women 22-36 or some thing like that. Every station is different.
And remember that in PPM both stations and clients can create custom reports, such as, well, 22-36 or things like that.
AC generally looks at women about 25 to 28 up to 50 as the core. Not all cores match the standard Nielsen demos, of course.
You are forgetting that there are four major groups in the market plus several strong secondary operators. Not every station in every group is going to be at the top of the ranker for the broader demos because there are too many stations. But when sold as part of a combo, they can be very successful.
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I'm taking about the Seattle market specifically. It is 100% true.
KQMV, KNDD, KUBE, KISW, Hits 106.1, Hot 103.7, and both country stations are the only commercial stations with full market coverage in SEATTLE where A18-34 (or some narrower subset entirely within or almost entirely within A18-34) is of high priority or of utmost priority.
Honestly, I'm being generous by including a station like KISW, where Men 25-44 is likely its primary target. And if we wish to talk about stations whose median listener age is designed to be smack dab in the center of 18-34 or just above its center, we can remove the two country stations.
In many areas (Seattle is probably one), Adult Contemporary and Classic Rock stations fare very well in A18-34, but the groups who operate such stations are much more concerned with how those stations perform with adults 25 & older, especially age 30 & older.
I am not at all forgetting that; you are making an incorrect assumption.
For the purpose for which it was designed, KUBE is likely underachieving in a major way right now. That, in my view, is the primary takeaway.
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You apparently don't know that Nielsen has standard tables for 18-24, 25-34, 35-44, 25-44, 45-54 and a bunch of others, further segregated by gender, ethnicity and even the country level.
There are all kinds of stations that look at demos that include all or part of the 18-34 you seem obsessed with. In most cases, the 18-24 is less important, so we look at 25-34 or 25-39 or 25-44.
I'm guessing that a number of them don't even look at 18-34. Many CHRs look at Women 25-44, not |18-34 persons.
What most stations want to do is look good somewhere in the 25-54 demo, as agencies that buy ratings will always balance the younger, the middle and the older parts of their buy with different stations.
It's probably fitting in nicely with the cluster, and in every cluster we work on making each station perform better.
I owned my first cluster (5 FM and 4 AMs) back in the 60's and we sold almost exclusively to agencies. We were also always looking on what the best format for each station was, and adjusting the ones that needed some fine tuning.
I am "obsessed" with A18-34 because an earlier poster specifically asked about 18-34 and because KUBE's median listener target is likely the youngest or one of the youngest of all stations in the market.
I agree. Gets back to what I was saying earlier.
While I acknowledge and fully agree that stations within a cluster should be viewed as a portfolio or as pieces of a puzzle, I doubt when KUBE was relaunched on 93.3 that the expectation was for the station to be performing as softly in the ratings as it is right now.
Again, this *could* prove to be a short-term problem. Time will tell. iHM was successful in digging WJMN in Boston out of the ratings mud.
I agree. Gets back to what I was saying earlier.
While I acknowledge and fully agree that stations within a cluster should be viewed as a portfolio or as pieces of a puzzle, I doubt when KUBE was relaunched on 93.3 that the expectation was for the station to be performing as softly in the ratings as it is right now.
Again, this *could* prove to be a short-term problem. Time will tell. iHM was successful in digging WJMN in Boston out of the ratings mud.
I mentioned 18-34, because that's a common demo target example for Hot-AC stations. Specifically 18-34F. That doesn't mean a station is going to ignore 25-34MF. It just means when agencies place buys, how are you as a group owner doing when it comes to meeting the demographic-reach-need?
But by using 6+ in that assumption without knowing what, or how, they're doing in target demo, you're making a totally false conclusion.
Short or long, it doesn't matter. You have no idea whether it's an actual problem or not. Blind assumptions are not accurate assumptions.
I doubt if their intention was to regain their historical highs when they moved the format back to 93.3... If so then they would have hired actual talent and made a marketing effort that was noticable... probably making a play to get back some of their former big names too... Powers, etc... As for now all they got were the third string.
If you're going to tear apart what I say, at least get it right.
I said "nearly zero" which means the station programming costs nearly nothing to operate. Of course I know about the other expenses. My point is it's dumb to take away a standalone station that presumably generating revenue for a simulcast that takes away that revenue.
But hey, I have no business experience. That's what you say.
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