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107.3 (WBCB translator)
- Thread starter JH_Radio
- Start date
I live in Levittown and that 107.3 does not go very far at all once you get into Bristol it's hard to hear. There 1490 am goes farther and even that is trash.I have no idea why it's even still on the air like seriously they can't even have 5 people listening to it. FM radio is dieing AM has been dead for years!!there format is all over the place. No one wants that crap. Today's world most if not everyone is streaming from there iPhone and Android to the car radio with Bluetooth. It's time to turn the lights out on WBCB
I understand why daytime only AMs would want a 24 hour FM translator or a station using an AM signal to broadcast a contemporary format on FM. But I would guess most on the WBCB audience is still listening to their 24 hour AM for their block programs of nostalgic music and specialty talk shows.
Well based on Uber rides I take 8 times a week, almost nobody was streaming from their phones.
I know of one that was.
The rest I knew of had on FM.
One guy had on SiriusXM 90's on 9.
More than one had on WTDY, a couple had on WIOQ, one had on the Breeze, one had on WIP.
Of all of those times i've been doing rides since early December, I've only had the same person once.
Some ride in silence, too.
This is with Uber X drivers.
Tell me again that FM is dyeing? Because I'm not buying it.
That's a lot of cars and rides and drivers.
I know of one that was.
The rest I knew of had on FM.
One guy had on SiriusXM 90's on 9.
More than one had on WTDY, a couple had on WIOQ, one had on the Breeze, one had on WIP.
Of all of those times i've been doing rides since early December, I've only had the same person once.
Some ride in silence, too.
This is with Uber X drivers.
Tell me again that FM is dyeing? Because I'm not buying it.
That's a lot of cars and rides and drivers.
First, the average car in the US is 12 years old. Most don't have the ability to easily stream. Example: we have two higher end cars that are 6 years old. Neither can accommodate phone to console streaming.
Radio reaches nearly 90% of all adults every week. Time spent listening has declined... but it declined first when video games became popular well before the cellphone. There are more options today, but 9 out of every 10 people uses radio every week. And if you go back 30 years, the difference is just 5%... from 94% using radio around 1990 to 89% today.
AM's biggest issue is noise and coverage. Few AMs cover their market well... less than one out of every 10 do that in the top 100 markets. And noise has reduced coverage further. So this is a technical issue, not a radio listening issue... FM is far more robust so listeners have abandoned AM.
6 of the 20 top billing stations in the US are AM or AM/FM simulcasts. But the smartest of them are adding FM simulcasts, too.
Sure, listening is moving to streams... but it's not as absolute as you paint it.
meaning no bluetooth built in? no android auto/CarPlay?
but you could use the 3.5MM jack which will give you better audio anyway (if your phones still have headphone jacks or you get adaptors or high end DACs.
Also it's not just the noise on AM.
Its frequency response is horrible on any AM radio in the car .
That's not the fault of the on air chain or engineers I know. AM is an afterthought on car radios.
All listeners know is its quiet enough but still sounds like crap! well jeez I wonder why...
the Chrysler Infinity ROZ radios were better.
John
i find it funny that people complain about stations like this and then 2 breaths later complain about corporate radio and how no local radio is left.... when they want the station that is about as local as can be to just disappear
That's Funny you Quote what I wrote but I never complained about corporate radio. I don't even listen to it I haven't in years!! I stream from my iPhone to my car with Bluetooth with Apple music I can hear any song I want on demand!! All commercial free!! I only know about how bad there signal is because I seen on here that they was on the FM. So I checked it out and laughed my ass off when I found out if you drive 10 minutes away from the station to Bristol you can't even really hear it anymore. like seriously what's the point of even doing doing it.
Translators are limited to 250 watts.. what do you expect.?
And that's not even necessarily the whole story... Translators are "Secondary Services" and City of License is part of the process and could pretty much be anything beyond the primary contour, it means very little in the grand scheme of things versus a "Full Service" station, Class A through C. Even Class D stations are "secondary services" even though on paper they are Full Service just like LPFM stations.
Theres no city of license coverage requirements either.. they dont have to cover all or even part of their city of license. There are some translators that were moved, city of license was never changed and are dozens of miles away from the COL
You are right about that, but ouch! To me, thirty years ago is still 1975, LOL.
Hate to break it to you, but Cell-service is also only 10 minutes at a time. We like to think of it as one inter-connected web (and it is), but is made up of data towers covering tiny cell areas. When they are all together and working right, you get the beauty that is the internet, but if your local cell tower is down, than you lose the whole thing, unless there is another cell tower nearby that "overlaps" your area. But your connectivity will be poor. If you did want true worldwide coverage no matter what, there's always satellite for everything, but your 4G connection is not nationwide. It is a 3 mile by 3 mile block that one tower covers until you are handed off to the next one, and I wish people understood that better before claiming that their cell phone has a thousand mile reach or whatnot.
AM, by the way, is pretty good at covering 50-100+ miles with a single tower. For comparison, that is likely around 150 cell towers. (Although there is designated facilities that can cover an entire town with a single sweep, but usually for the phone call portion of it nowadays). In the plains, of course, 1 AM station is listenable for 250 plus miles on occasion.
FM can cover 30-40 miles on full-power, but as @SomeRadioGuy said, you've got a translator. That is only 250 watts out of the possible 100kw that you can achieve. And then there is terrain factors as well. Sometimes, with enough height and a good antenna, FM can travel up to 100-200 miles decently. (My hometown is an example). Fun fact about FM though: The signal can travel an infinite length, but due to the Earth's curvature, we don't get to enjoy that. But, the fine astronauts on the ISS get to hear FM's from around the world (or would be able to, but they've got more important work to do. They did communicate with some students via shortwave once).
A secondary service has no protection. A translator cant encroach upon a translator.. but a full power station could enroach on a translator and cause it to have to be bumped off the air.
On AM, you have
Class A (or Clear Channel status) where the station is allowed to broadcast up to 50kw non-directional, and they have the full rights to their frequency, and in the case of true "clears" like WHO, WGN, WABC, KSL, KOA, WBAP, KNX, etc. then no station within 750 miles is allowed to broadcast on that frequency at night. As a result, let's look at KOA. During the day, it can be followed into Kansas for around 300 miles on a good radio and good day. But at night, it can be picked up on the West Coast of California. (There, it is obviously a bit weaker, and subject to more fading, but there it is, providing world-class content to a good chunk of the US. KOA is as clear as a whistle whenever I travel for vacation, so I can even depend on it whilst in Sheridan, Wyo to keep me company.)
Class A to B: Stations like KDWN, KOMO, KKOH, KKOB, KTWO, and whatnot are stations that may broadcast up to 50kw around the clock if they protect the main stations (in this case, WGN, WMVP, WBBM, WABC, and WBZ). They are still allowed to be 50kw non-directional during the day-time, affording some sweet coverage still. All 5 stations I mentioned also has protections of their own, but just not as stringent. A look at KTWO shows this. WNVR, a station in WBZ's zone powers down from 10kw to just 120w. KMAS, a station in KTWO's zone, only goes from 10kw to 1kw. A true Class A will run at 50kw all the time and just directionalize if needed. But, there is an interestingly different option to pursue as we'll see below...
Full Class B: KMAS is a Class B station. So is KGYN, and KHAT. All three runs 10kw daytime, but they are different at night. Flexibility is to be expected on Class B. KGYN remains at 10kw during the night, but goes directional to the NW, to protect Class A station WPHT. (KGYN, by the way, has a CP for 22kw daytime, and KDFD runs 50kw daytime, which again shows the available options for a Class B station.) KMAS goes down to 1kw at night, but is non-directional. KHAT also goes down to 1kw, but is directional, to protect KGYN and WPHT. There is also things that are odd, like KRKO being 50kw ND daytime, but then throwing everything to Alaska at night (Still at 50kw).
Class C's are considered the "Local" class because they really hone in their coverage to their hometowns. By law, these stations operate on 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490. They are only permitted a maximum of 1kw (that's 1000 watts) during the daytime. Although most stay on 1000 during the night, some will drop it down. WHIZ in Zanesville Ohio does 1kw daytime and 960w nights. WPSE Erie does 1kw says and 770w nights. The opposite is true as well. KJMU Sand Springs, Oklahoma goes up from 500w daytime to the full 1kw nights. Stations in Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico treat these frequencies as Class B due to their distance from the mainland.
Class D: The leftovers. These stations can go as high as 50kw daytime, but they must be under 250 watts at night, and they, in general, must accept any interference from other stations, including other Class D's or higher. If there is ambiguity, the higher Class station gets priority. On 1480 AM, there are Class B and Class D stations. The Class B ones are already working within their own rules, but they have precedence over any Class D sticks. Therefore, KLMS and KQAM (Class B) may go right over the top of KRAE at night. Often times, despite being within 5 miles of KRAE, I can often null them in favor of KQAM in particular. And again, KRAE (Class D) is lower in class than KQAM, and therefore accepts all interference from KQAM. However, KRAE, limited to 72 watts at night, is not allowed to cause skywave interference to KQAM. (Groundwave, however, is fine.)
In fact, the rule applies across the entire band. KGAB (Class B) is a beast during the daytime at 8.5kw, but WSM, being Class A, is allowed to cause interference to KGAB, which does occur every once in awhile. KGAB is far enough away from WSM to be allowed to be on at night, and runs at 500w during that time, allowing it to be heard across a good chunk of Wyoming and Southern Montana. KGAB and KMTI are the same class, thus none has the priority over the other, and each other's skywave collides in Eastern Idaho.
So FM is a bit different.
Class C's are the big boys and get the farthest coverage, particularly C0's. C0's to C3's are all able to go up to 100kw, but the antenna height differs. Sometimes you will see grandfathered stations under just Class C without the number, and right now, the highest powered US station is WBCT Grand Rapids, MI, with 320,000 watts under it's belt. The thing is, FM, because of the Earth's curvature, has a finite distance it can travel whilst on Earth, but the signal also spreads infinitely into space. 320kw, though, fills up offices 50 miles away better than a 100kw can, however, a 100kw is very sufficient at reaching car radios, and once you get past a certain point (probably 65 kw), the distance can't be improved anymore. In fact, if you look at Colorado Public Radio's flagship, KCFR, it is only 14kw, but in my opinion, it makes the 100 mile trip to Cheyenne as good as any of the higher power stations. So when you see a construction permit for higher power, think penetration into downtown offices rather than increased distance. KXWA and KIGN are both on 101.9. KIGN is a lot higher at 50kw, while KXWA is only 9.5kw. In Kimball, 63 miles east of Cheyenne, or 130 miles NE of Denver, these two stations battle it out, and literally as soon as you get south of the welcome center, KXWA (remember, 9.5kw and 130 miles) is way on top. It blew my mind the first time it happened, but it's proof that wattage doesn't matter as much as transmitter height and receiver height. With that note in mind, let's move on.
*I should add that Class C's are banned in a good chunk of the North-east, and California. There seems to be no reason for this except to preserve frequencies in extremely urban areas.
Class B's are only allowed 50kw, and a maximum HAAT of 150m, similar to Class C2.
Class A's are only allowed 6kw, and it's more common to see them in smaller communities anyways.
Class D's are reserved for small time educational stations, particularly in Alaska (10 watts max), but they are also translators (250 watts max).
Low power stations are their own unique system. At most, they can broadcast with 100 watts, and they are only meant to serve a VERY SMALL community. These smaller stations are easier to build antennas for, hence they can get closer to their community. Some do very minimalist work, whilst others go all out (like KWYG-LP, 80 watts) and can cover a decent area. A special subset of LP stations are only allowed 10 watts in more urban areas.
Finally, there are some legal ways of broadcasting without a license, but even compared to a Class D service, they use a LOT less watts. Like somewhere in the nanowatt realm. (And THAT is miniscule compared to even 1 watt). Even so, they can travel a few city blocks, or upwards of a mile. This is the U class or Unlicensed class. Examples of legal operation is a car-transmitter with Bluetooth, a church service, a Christmas lights display connected to FM, and of course, a designated SiriusXM repeater. So, in my community, someone does run a lights display running a playlist on 107.7. It travels for a good 0.75 miles or so under the right conditions, and it gets staticky about 5-8 streets away. I've had several people running their car transmitters, making for some interesting finds as I drive around town. Most of them are good about finding an open frequency, but I was not thrilled when someone plopped their transmitter over KXKL. You just don't mess with classic hits! Another example of an unlicensed operation in my town is on 90.7 FM, which started out playing straight up Sirius XM, but I noticed a couple of weeks ago that they started changing some things up. Some local ads would pop up (and then more as of this week), some programming that didn't seem like it was coming from XM, and then on weekends it would switch to old-timey programming. It's practically halfway to being a full-service type of station! Now of course, if that's what the person needs for their house, then that's legal. However, if they make any attempt to claim a "broadcast" (be on the lookout for a DJ, or some sort of slogan like "Surfin 103.7"), than that will be illegal to the FCC without a license. 90.7 in my town teeters on the edge of legality in terms of programming, but it is well within it's power range as it basically only covers about three medium parking lots.
So lots of options there.
So hopefully this guide provides a good rule-of-thumb for the stations you are interested in!
I feel like I went a lot longer than I probably needed to, however I hopefully broke it down in a sensible manner that wasn't too hard on the eyes. I am just a bit passionate about radio
As I am learning with the whole 88.1 KJAR versus K201HM scenario. (Although K201HM isn't going off the air, just bumped to 88.9)
@ TommyGlaser : True as the directioan daylight about WBAB 1490's reach. I lived for a while in Fairless Hills while working SW of Philadelphia. The car radio was just a plain ol' standard issue AM thing in a Dart.
I'd take WBCB 1490 the entire trip, with it naturally getting weaker along the miles. The only hassle with the reception happened when I drove I-95 through maybe two miles of Philly's WDAS 1480 laser. On the other side of WDAS, WBCB came in again.
Times and noise levels have changed, of course. Perhaps, WDAS has even changed their pattern since then. But the AM got out a lot farther southwest than the FM evidently gets to Bristol. Now, I'm a DX geek and not a casual listener, but I can get WBCB underneath semi-local WAZL Hazelton and then-WLPA Lancaster with a spin of the GE Superadio II up this way. I wouldn't pull the plug on WBCB-AM quite yet.
(Retro question : Forget the Philly book. Has either WBCB or co-county WBUX ever showed up respectably in a past Trenton / Mercer book ?)
I'd take WBCB 1490 the entire trip, with it naturally getting weaker along the miles. The only hassle with the reception happened when I drove I-95 through maybe two miles of Philly's WDAS 1480 laser. On the other side of WDAS, WBCB came in again.
Times and noise levels have changed, of course. Perhaps, WDAS has even changed their pattern since then. But the AM got out a lot farther southwest than the FM evidently gets to Bristol. Now, I'm a DX geek and not a casual listener, but I can get WBCB underneath semi-local WAZL Hazelton and then-WLPA Lancaster with a spin of the GE Superadio II up this way. I wouldn't pull the plug on WBCB-AM quite yet.
(Retro question : Forget the Philly book. Has either WBCB or co-county WBUX ever showed up respectably in a past Trenton / Mercer book ?)
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