There is only one killer in the five examples you gave, and Spector's crime had zip, zero, zilch, naught, nada to do with music. He and Berry Gordy weren't going around threatening to shoot each other's stars. And show me where I said all rappers are thugs. Don't bother, I'll tell you: I didn't.
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- Thread starter Mikey Radio
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You are spot on, David, addressing the existence of institutional racism in the United States. I know some people remain unapologetic about slavery and Jim Crow, but it needs to be said. The ones that say that blacks should get over slavery and racial discrimination are the same people who act violently anytime a 9/11 joke is said. Ironic, eh?
If hip-hop is nothing but "thug life" and "selling dope"...really, are U Can't Touch This and Kris Kross's Jump more unpleasant to listen to than Since U Been Gone? Relevant question, since AC-oriented stations, historically, have played the latter song to death and have rarely played the former two.
Your sarcasm does not flatter you.
I just referred to two specific songs that invoke violence -- "Folsom Prison Blues" and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" -- and an artist, Marty Robbins, whose biggest hit was "El Paso," in which two people die by gunshot. So you've created a straw man to knock down with your spurious argument.
My point, once again, is that there are far fewer incidences of artists, producers, label moguls or whatever promoting or committing acts of homicide as well as fantasizing about them in song or rhyme in country and rock/pop -- and the African American genres of jazz and soul as well, may I add -- than there are in rap. Words, no matter how harsh or offensive, don't kill. I'm not condemning the genre, as landtuna unashamedly does. I admit that I'm not a fan, but I have no problem with others being fans. And yes, I've read of the good works of A Tribe Called Quest, Eminem and others, and am not painting everyone in the hip-hop business with the same broad brush.
If, for ten or fifteen generations you are told to "keep your place" and given inferior educations and opportunities, it is likely that you or your children will be frustrated and angry.
One of my favorite radio experiences has been in the Dominican republic where I reprogrammed an FM over 35 years ago and created it's #1 morning show since then, "The Morning Government". The station takes on the administration of the national and city administrations and gets change done in intelligent, well orchestrated commentaries. Oh, and essentially all the folks there are some shade of Black. But they don't have the "pure white" opposition to their success that some nations do...
I'm failing to get my message across.
It isn't primarily skin color that instigates racism. Rather it is isolation and/or lack of "belonging" that does. I spent much time in the UK working alongside Black coworkers. But closing your eyes they talked, acted, behaved just like white Brits. They didn't try having their own street language, didn't dress differently, had common interests etc. The only thing different was the color of their skin - which meant nothing in the long run. In short, they were Brits and not a sub-culture of the dominant one.
In decades past other races/cultures have experienced the same treatment here in the USA (Irish in NE, Polish in Chicago, Asians on West Coast etc.) but they have worked their way into the greater American culture - some even maintaining a substantial mini-culture of their own). 20 years ago you would have never found a Vietnamese here in Phoenix. Now the place is loaded with nail studios and Pho restaurants.
Many Black Britons are also hip hop fans; Capital Xtra (formerly Choice FM) is a fairly prominent station. Also, Black Britons have made drum-and-bass and grime. And who says they don't have their own dialect?
Although immigrants have had plenty of struggles in the USA, you have to consider many factors that have hampered progress among Black Americans, not the least of which include redlining, segregation, the struggle for suffrage, and events like the Tulsa race riots.
Perhaps you should speak with someone who has been repeatedly pulled over for "Driving While Black". It's difficult to view things from someone else's point of view. Many people don't want to try.
The mob has a history of being connected to the music business. Remember the "Rat Pack"? It's not limited to Hip Hop. Those artists write about their life experiences. I don't think they are condoning murder. Gang violence is a real world problem...
Oh no, you most certainly are. The racist stereotypes and tropes make your message abundantly clear.
When were the Polish, the Irish or Asians bought and sold as slaves? Denied the right to vote by hooded men in white sheets? Prevented from entering a restaurant or public restroom?
And when were they made to see statues of people who fought to keep them as slaves, for well over a century later? When were they told objections to a flag of the army that fought to keep them slaves didn't actually still carry that connotation?
The 2013 (remake) movie "Ida" tells the Polish story pretty good, which is relatively unknown.
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Here you and I disagree. The world in 1760 was not today's world. Slavery was predominant in agricultural economies world-wide in the tropics and warmer parts of the temperate zones. The US was neither unique not the creator of slavery.
As the world became more "civilized" slavery was eradicated from most of its areas, although we are seeing examples today in some zones in Africa and, particularly, in Northeastern China. We saw it in the Gulags in Russia and even in the caste system of India less than 100 years ago, in fact.
I was referring, as the context should indicate (read the prior post from Landtuna to which I responded specifically) to the Poles in the United States, not in Nazi dominated Europe. Similarly, the Irish and Asians (predominantly Chinese in the far western US) were referred to in the context of the American experience.
"Ida" tells quite well the story of post-WW II Poland. But that is not the subject.
I ran the board at WJMO on Sunday mornings in Cleveland in the very early 60's when we had shows in Greek, Italian, Czech, Polish, Hungarian and Yiddish. None of the folks who did those shows was a slave.
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In Chicago Poles were 'restricted' to certain residential areas - whites would not sell to them. Sound familiar?
Signs in Boston used to say "Irish need not apply" (housing, jobs). Why else do you think they found their niche in policing?
Thousands of West Coast Asians (mostly Japanese who held American citizenship) were evicted from their homes and businesses and have never been compensated for these losses. Yes, it was wartime but then why were Japanese living in Hawaii not sent to camps as well? And recognize that from 1940 until present day not one instance of espionage or terrorism has been proven against any of these American citizens.
I'm not even going to get into the continuing discrimination against Jews. You only need to read the news to find it is all too common.
I am not saying that harassment and lynchings aren't more serious than what these others suffered. Simply that discrimination could be found in a significant number against other ethnic groups besides Blacks. What seems to make Blacks different is they treat their discrimination (slavery specifically) as if it is still going on today. The other groups have, for the most part, moved on.
I had a good buddy in high school who was one of the very few Blacks in my school. Years after we graduated he told me about being fired from a job in a c-store because a customer complained to the owner and didn't want to deal with a Black kid. I also had the exact experience at about the same time except mine was in a gas station in liberal Marin County, CA instead of his in Tucson, AZ.
I was holding down the evening drive time at a branded gas station one day by myself when a customer arrived wanting an oil change. I explained I was alone so, depending on the rush at the pumps, it might be 30-45 minutes. He left and minutes later the station owner showed up, told me I had offended one of his best customers and fired me. I had always treated his customers professionally so I knew there was another reason. He was a drunk so that might have been it, I don't know and never tried to figure it out. It has been the only time in my life I have ever been fired from a job.
The difference between my high school buddy and I is he has never forgotten or moved on. He is still very embittered about his experience and chalks it up to being Black and confronted by a racist. In my case I think my boss and his customer were just a-holes but it really doesn't matter. I've moved on and never gave it any thought until I decided to write this.
No matter who you are, what your achievements might be or your skin color you will invariably meet some a-holes along the way. They may be racists or just plain a-holes but it really doesn't matter. Chalk it up to "that's life" and move on.
I'm definitely thankful for a place like this where both sides of the aisle can sound off, even if it does get off-track.
I like the Sugarhill Gang, or at least that one song.
I never rejected Will Smith's clean rap. Now Maroon 5 and Kelly Clarkson just do music I consider terrible. Kelly Clarkson is a great person.
And responding to earlier posts, Carrie Underwood has a great voice and is a nice person. The music she chooses to perform most of the time is not my taste. I don't have anything positive to say about Jason Aldean because his songs sound terrible to me and I don't know anything about him as a person.
America's Best Music, or whatever it was called, played it all the time. nice to listen to if you don't pay attention to the words.
I was actually introduced to the Sugar-Hill Gang thanks to a sports video game rather (it was MLB 2K10) that had the "Rapper's Delight" song on it. The 80's-90s were a fun time where rap words was still understandable, and that song in particular was relatively light. Needless to say, I super enjoyed it, even despite it's astounding length. Much to my surprise, the song ran for 15 minutes on the game!
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