KLAA - Angels Radio AM 830

[davideduardo]

The Angels only put "Anaheim" in their name when they were forced to by the City as a condition for stadium refurbishment funds. One of the first things Moreno did was change the name to the "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim". Arte knows what market he is really serving and what will drive his revenue.

But most of the time all I see is "Angels". And those in the OC see it as theirs.

The city sued saying the new name violated the spirit of the agreement, but the court found that the name did indeed include the word "Anaheim" and thus did not violate the terms of the contract. Arte then got rid of Anaheim name all together once the contract expired.

Anaheim is a suburb of LA. Just as Pomona, Santa Clarita, and Thousand Oaks are. People have a hard time accepting this fact for some reason.

Anaheim / Santa Ana / Garden Grove for most of history were isolated from the LA metro by farmland. The area that is Disneyland was a viable project in the 50's because there were huge tracts of farmland there. In fact, the reason "Knotts' Berry Farm" is so called is that it began with amusements on, naturally, a berry farm.

Back then, the Orange County cities were much smaller and not connected to LA. Betwee Disney and freeways built in the 50's and 60's, the two metros grew into each other, sort of like Dallas and Fort Worth, Seattle and Tacoma or Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. And we are seeing it more recently with Mobile and Pensacola

 

[briancraig]

Despite clearly being the "second" baseball team in the L.A. area, playing in an old stadium, not having any kind of national following and only winning one AL title and appearing in one World Series since 1961, the Angels always draw very well.

In the several years before COVID, the Angels were never worse than the 7th highest attendance team and were often top 5.

Even this year (as of today), despite being mediocre and no chance of being in the post season, the Angels have the 11th highest attendance. 1,192,462 people have attended Angels games this year which is more than the Giants, Phillies, Brewers etc.

 

[michael hagerty]

The Angels only put "Anaheim" in their name when they were forced to by the City as a condition for stadium refurbishment funds. One of the first things Moreno did was change the name to the "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim". Arte knows what market he is really serving and what will drive his revenue.

The city sued saying the new name violated the spirit of the agreement, but the court found that the name did indeed include the word "Anaheim" and thus did not violate the terms of the contract. Arte then got rid of Anaheim name all together once the contract expired.

Yes, Flip, but that doesn't change the fact that it was not branded as a Los Angeles team for more than 30 years.

In fact, Moreno's move indicates that he knew that the Anaheim brand was hurting the team's perception as a Los Angeles team. And news coverage of those maneuvers at the time indicate that Arte was trying to elevate the team's image.

So, it matters.

As to whether a city is considered a suburb of another city, that's kind of up to the people who live there.

Washington D.C. is about the same distance from Baltimore as Anaheim is from Los Angeles. Is Baltimore a D.C. suburb? Vice-versa?

Santa Ana and Anaheim have downtowns dating back to the 19th century. They aren't bedroom communities created by the sprawl of Los Angeles.

3.2 million people live in Orange County. They have their own municipal governments and county government, their own attractions and economic engines. The only thing they really share with Los Angeles is mass media. And back before the consolidation of how media was bought by advertisers, their own local radio stations and newspapers were going concerns that served their community.

 

[david]

Instead of answering "where are you from?" with "America" or "USA", I answered "California". Some people asked "near what city?" or "northern or southern?", but not all. However, it got unanimous warm smiles and stories of trips they'd either taken here or are planning to take.

That is my long-prescribed answer: Even better than saying you're from America, is saying you're from California. Cali has a magical cache globally. It represents the dream of so many around the world, plus the wonderment of Hollywood. As such, one encounters as you wrote "unanimous warm smiles and stories of trips they'd either taken here or are planning to take".

 

[K.M. Richards]

13 years ago on this site, there was a discussion of a Palm Beach, Florida station that appeared to use counties… but all that mattered were the calls and “Palm Beach”:

Post in thread 'WWLV "Love 94.5" - "Barely Legal ID" - December, 1991'
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/th...ly-legal-id-december-1991.569942/post-5080262

Thanks for posting that, Mike. I was personally amused by the OP in that case, plaintively asking at the end of the thread "what about the spirit of the ID requirement?" And so I have to tell this story, because after all the OP here made a mistaken claim about what a legal station identification is ...

Back in 1978, when I programmed my first radio station (KAAP-AM/FM Santa Paula CA) the owners were trying every way that they could to avoid being identified by the listeners with their city of license, because our signal actually was best in the cities the market was named for ... Oxnard-Ventura. At one point, they actually had TM record a jingle with "Santa Paula" sung a capella after the jingle itself, down about 12dB from the jingle itself, and then back-timed the start so that the drumroll from ABC Information washed it out.

I solved their problem by burying the legal in the weather that was part of every hour's newscast:
"Current area temperatures from KAAP AM & FM: Santa Paula 82, it's 76 in Ventura, and in Oxnard 74."

One day the FCC came calling (probably due a report by one of our competitors) about us not airing any legal station identifications. Once shown where the ID was, they said "but you aren't complying with the spirit of the rule" (now you know why I am amused) to which I pointed out that the ID complied with the rule as written and that they couldn't write a Notice of Apparent Violation based on the "spirit" of it.

They did not go away very happily.

 

[michael hagerty]

Thanks for posting that, Mike. I was personally amused by the OP in that case, plaintively asking at the end of the thread "what about the spirit of the ID requirement?" And so I have to tell this story, because after all the OP here made a mistaken claim about what a legal station identification is ...

Back in 1978, when I programmed my first radio station (KAAP-AM/FM Santa Paula CA) the owners were trying every way that they could to avoid being identified by the listeners with their city of license, because our signal actually was best in the cities the market was named for ... Oxnard-Ventura. At one point, they actually had TM record a jingle with "Santa Paula" sung a capella after the jingle itself, down about 12dB from the jingle itself, and then back-timed the start so that the drumroll from ABC Information washed it out.

I solved their problem by burying the legal in the weather that was part of every hour's newscast:
"Current area temperatures from KAAP AM & FM: Santa Paula 82, it's 76 in Ventura, and in Oxnard 74."

One day the FCC came calling (probably due a report by one of our competitors) about us not airing any legal station identifications. Once shown where the ID was, they said "but you aren't complying with the spirit of the rule" (now you know why I am amused) to which I pointed out that the ID complied with the rule as written and that they couldn't write a Notice of Apparent Violation based on the "spirit" of it.

They did not go away very happily.

Digging around, I also found (or maybe it was in the thread I linked to) the case of a radio station in Eaton, Ohio, which wanted to play up its signal in nearby (25 miles) and much larger Dayton, Ohio. So it came up with the ID:

"WGTZ. Eaton Dayton alive."

 

[K.M. Richards]

Ultimately, the Rams bailed for St. Louis before the Raiders called it a day and went home to Oakland.

And then left home again two years ago for Las Vegas.

 

[K.M. Richards]

"WGTZ. Eaton Dayton alive."

I actually got to hear that ID live in 1988 when I briefly visited a friend who lived in Dayton at the time.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Thanks for posting that, Mike. I was personally amused by the OP in that case, plaintively asking at the end of the thread "what about the spirit of the ID requirement?" And so I have to tell this story, because after all the OP here made a mistaken claim about what a legal station identification is ...

Back in 1978, when I programmed my first radio station (KAAP-AM/FM Santa Paula CA) the owners were trying every way that they could to avoid being identified by the listeners with their city of license, because our signal actually was best in the cities the market was named for ... Oxnard-Ventura. At one point, they actually had TM record a jingle with "Santa Paula" sung a capella after the jingle itself, down about 12dB from the jingle itself, and then back-timed the start so that the drumroll from ABC Information washed it out.

I solved their problem by burying the legal in the weather that was part of every hour's newscast:
"Current area temperatures from KAAP AM & FM: Santa Paula 82, it's 76 in Ventura, and in Oxnard 74."

One day the FCC came calling (probably due a report by one of our competitors) about us not airing any legal station identifications. Once shown where the ID was, they said "but you aren't complying with the spirit of the rule" (now you know why I am amused) to which I pointed out that the ID complied with the rule as written and that they couldn't write a Notice of Apparent Violation based on the "spirit" of it.

They did not go away very happily.

And now you can appreciate why Artie Moreno won his case against the City of Anaheim. Specific adherence to the terms of the contract or regulation is where the two main topics of this thread come together.

 

[briancraig]

As to whether a city is considered a suburb of another city, that's kind of up to the people who live there.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that is up to the Census Bureau?

I know the Bureau can seem somewhat inconsistent as Dallas and Ft. Worth are considered one whereas Washington and Baltimore are not.

But to anyone outside Southern California, Orange County would be just a sprawling extension of Los Angeles.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Long Beach likes and tries to keep a separate identity from Los Angeles, too.

And Long Beach needs a new attraction as the Queen Mary has lost its popularity and is slowly rusting away. The Aquarium is fantastic, though!

But native Long Beach media has been floating away for decades...I believe 105.5, 102.3 and 97.9 were all at one time licensed to Long Beach. 88.1 KKJZ has been IDing as Long Beach-Los Angeles for some time, and as I understand it the studio is no longer at CSULB but moved to West LA with the rest of Saul's stations.

 

[TomásEstefan]

But most of the time all I see is "Angels". And those in the OC see it as theirs.



Anaheim / Santa Ana / Garden Grove for most of history were isolated from the LA metro by farmland. The area that is Disneyland was a viable project in the 50's because there were huge tracts of farmland there. In fact, the reason "Knotts' Berry Farm" is so called is that it began with amusements on, naturally, a berry farm.

Back then, the Orange County cities were much smaller and not connected to LA. Betwee Disney and freeways built in the 50's and 60's, the two metros grew into each other, sort of like Dallas and Fort Worth, Seattle and Tacoma or Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. And we are seeing it more recently with Mobile and Pensacola

Way back when, Disney reportedly offered to build a Monorail connecting Disneyland to Downtown Los Angeles for $ 3 million. The City (LA) said that was too expensive...Me thinks the automotive industry had the most to say about that...

 

[michael hagerty]

BuAs to whether a city is considered a suburb of another city, that's kind of up to the people who live there.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that is up to the Census Bureau?

I know the Bureau can seem somewhat inconsistent as Dallas and Ft. Worth are considered one whereas Washington and Baltimore are not.

But to anyone outside Southern California, Orange County would be just a sprawling extension of Los Angeles.

So---you're suggesting the Census Bureau or "anyone outside Southern California" should be able to decide whether Orange County is a Los Angeles suburb better than someone who lives there?

I'll play along.

The Census Bureau does not use the term "suburb". Its defining terms are "Urban", "Urbanized Area", "Urban Cluster" and "Rural".

Anaheim is simply described as urban (the tenth largest city in California in terms of population).

So, let's move to the dictionary. Here's Merriam-Webster's definition:

Definition of suburb​

1a: an outlying part of a city or town

b: a smaller community adjacent to or within commuting distance of a city

c:suburbs plural : the residential area on the outskirts of a city or large town

35 miles out from downtown Los Angeles with many smaller communities in between would suggest that Anaheim does not fit the definition of a suburb of L.A. the way Glendale, Pasadena or Alhambra would. And, with more than 300,000 people living in Anaheim, the definition would suggest that Buena Park, Fullerton and Garden Grove are suburbs of Anaheim.

This definition would also put Long Beach, at more than 450,000 residents, into that category, making Seal Beach, San Pedro and Wilmington suburbs of Long Beach, not of Los Angeles.

And as for whether anyone outside of Southern California should decide...c'mon.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

As to whether a city is considered a suburb of another city, that's kind of up to the people who live there.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that is up to the Census Bureau?

I know the Bureau can seem somewhat inconsistent as Dallas and Ft. Worth are considered one whereas Washington and Baltimore are not.

But to anyone outside Southern California, Orange County would be just a sprawling extension of Los Angeles.

Exactly. It is not what you think it is, it is what the general populace thinks it is. The LA/OC divide is only relevant to the people who live there. To everyone else, OC is an LA suburb. Nobody from other parts of the country say "I am going to OC on vacation:" They say they are going to LA.

I am quite familiar with Dallas/Forth Worth. That situation is more fluid as some make the distinction, some do not, nearly all refer to it as DFW or simply "the Metroplex". To the extent a distinction is made, it is because generally, Dallas is the more cosmopolitan of the two, whereas Fort Worth identifies more with Texas' cowboy roots and lifestyle.

 

[michael hagerty]

Exactly. It is not what you think it is, it is what the general populace thinks it is. The LA/OC divide is only relevant to the people who live there. To everyone else, OC is an LA suburb. Nobody from other parts of the country say "I am going to OC on vacation:" They say they are going to LA.

I am quite familiar with Dallas/Forth Worth. That situation is more fluid as some make the distinction, some do not, nearly all refer to it as DFW or simply "the Metroplex". To the extent a distinction is made, it is because generally, Dallas is the more cosmopolitan of the two, whereas Fort Worth identifies more with Texas' cowboy roots and lifestyle.

I'll play this game, too.

I've never been to New York. Lemme look at a map.

Okay. I say Newark, New Jersey and Stamford, Connecticut are New York City suburbs. Anyone who actually lives there who disagrees is wrong?

 

[TheBigA]

Okay. I say Newark, New Jersey and Stamford, Connecticut are New York City suburbs. Anyone who lives there who disagrees is wrong?

At one time, there were more radio stations in Newark than there were in New York.

 

[TomásEstefan]

The Angels only put "Anaheim" in their name when they were forced to by the City as a condition for stadium refurbishment funds. One of the first things Moreno did was change the name to the "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim". Arte knows what market he is really serving and what will drive his revenue.

The city sued saying the new name violated the spirit of the agreement, but the court found that the name did indeed include the word "Anaheim" and thus did not violate the terms of the contract. Arte then got rid of Anaheim name all together once the contract expired.

Anaheim is a suburb of LA. Just as Pomona, Santa Clarita, and Thousand Oaks are. People have a hard time accepting this fact for some reason.

Many folks might take issue with your last statement. For purely marketing/economic reasons you are of course correct-this entire region is "Greater Los Angeles", but people who live in Thousand Oaks for example, see themselves as "Ventura County" which has nothing to do with "Los Angeles". Similar for some folks in Anaheim...

 

[TomásEstefan]

Yes, Flip, but that doesn't change the fact that it was not branded as a Los Angeles team for more than 30 years.

In fact, Moreno's move indicates that he knew that the Anaheim brand was hurting the team's perception as a Los Angeles team. And news coverage of those maneuvers at the time indicate that Arte was trying to elevate the team's image.

So, it matters.

As to whether a city is considered a suburb of another city, that's kind of up to the people who live there.

Washington D.C. is about the same distance from Baltimore as Anaheim is from Los Angeles. Is Baltimore a D.C. suburb? Vice-versa?

Santa Ana and Anaheim have downtowns dating back to the 19th century. They aren't bedroom communities created by the sprawl of Los Angeles.

3.2 million people live in Orange County. They have their own municipal governments and county government, their own attractions and economic engines. The only thing they really share with Los Angeles is mass media. And back before the consolidation of how media was bought by advertisers, their own local radio stations and newspapers were going concerns that served their community.

Baltimore a D.C. suburb? (or visa-versa! ) based on mileage you would think so. I always thought it fascinating that these "two markets" have apparently completely overlapping network TV affiliates.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I'll play this game, too.

I've never been to New York. Lemme look at a map.

Okay. I say Newark, New Jersey and Stamford, Connecticut are New York City suburbs. Anyone who actually lives there who disagrees is wrong?

Most people who live in other places would describe all of those places as NYC suburbs. Both the Giants and the Jets play in NJ. Nobody thinks it is false advertising to refer to themselves still as NYC teams. Again, the distinction is only relevant to the locals.

BTW, I am surprised that so many on this board who otherwise live and die by Arbitron/Nielsen ratings and market identifications don't identify more with them for this purpose. I am pretty sure (please correct me if I am wrong) that they stopped doing an OC book a long time ago, so the LA/OC Market is consolidated Market #2 (I think it always was, but OC had a separate within-market breakout for ahwile) , but DC and Baltimore are treated separate metros. Again, I think that is cosistent with the way the general populace views these areas too.

 

[michael hagerty]

Stockton is 50 miles down the freeway from Sacramento, half Sac’s size and sharing TV stations. Is Stockton a Sacramento suburb?

Is Napa a San Francisco suburb?

The attitude of the population toward the bigger city, combined with the smaller city’s own resources and economy, absolutely plays a huge part in whether you can consider it a suburb.

In the case of Orange County, residents share no local or County government with people in Los Angeles. Their nearest shared representation is in Sacramento.

The demographics, income and crime levels and types are significantly different from each other.

Southern California micro-climates often even remove weather as a commonality.