The story is mainly about AAA, which is a far different format than Alt. One of the stations Ross examines is playing Ray Charles; the other is playing the Animals. It really doesn't matter what currents either is pushing, all the Boomer stuff is going to guarantee an audience heavily skewing 55+. Ross doesn't even mention the whole "hard wired for rhythmic" Black/Hispanic thing or the decline of rock as a genre. Honestly, other than the lead paragraph, I fail to see anything in this opinion piece that has anything to do with the demise of WNYL.Sean Ross offers his views:
New York’s Triple-A Battle
With this week’s announcement that WNYL (Alt 92.3) will give way to a simulcast of All-News WINS at the endradioinsight.com
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Where will the ALT 92.3 Refugees Go? Options?
- Thread starter mikerock
- Start date
If there's no Alternative radio, they will go to Spotify. I know it's the 800 lb gorilla in the room nobody likes to talk about here. But it's almost 2023, not 1983. As FM becomes AM with talk and religious programming and streaming becoming the norm, music listeners will also defect. But not to corporate radio options (Burn them once, that's one thing. When it's a predictable pattern....)
And $10 a month isn't too much for complete control.
"But who's going to introduce them to new music?" Spotify has complete new music playlists. Google gives them the band/artist's website and bio, info on previous releases, current news, YouTube has their videos, etc.
And $10 a month isn't too much for complete control.
"But who's going to introduce them to new music?" Spotify has complete new music playlists. Google gives them the band/artist's website and bio, info on previous releases, current news, YouTube has their videos, etc.
There's alternative radio. Just not in NYC. Spotify is operationally and legally very different from radio. It's more of a replacement for one's record collection than radio. Legally, it's an on-demand service, and royalties are paid based on that concept. Theye pay a higher rate than Sirius for example. Speaking of royalties, they go up on an average of 15% every 3 years, so the $10 a month fee is likely to rise very soon.
Absolutely, but it puts the responsibility for finding those playlists on the user. Spotify has tried to do curated lists that attempt to duplicate FM radio, but users don't like them. There's an article posted on the National Radio board that explains why streaming has done little to introduce people to new artists.
I felt the same way when I saw the playlists. Imagine if WNYL played those songs. Riots in the streets! But perhaps one of those stations might adjust their playlists to incorporate more alternative music. Maybe not. There's also WSOU in New Jersey.
For the record, I just remembered that it wasn't "Eric Burden and the Animals" (as Ross wrote) who did "Spill the Wine" but, rather, War, Eric Burdon's post-Animals band, which actually was a very good funk/r&b outfit after Burdon left. (Hey, if nobody's gonna edit stuff before putting it on the web, there'll always be plenty for a retired curmudgeonly copy editor to do!)
I thought maybe there would be other HD channels out there other than just 92.3 HD2. Other than 92.3 HD2 there seems to be really no option to replace ALT 92.3 on radio?
WXPK is a pretty good station as far as far Triple A goes. At least they throw in new music here and there. There is also new releases Wednesday. But still no comparison to ALT 92.3 when they played new music or the last incarnation of Classic Alt with a harder edge which is not heard on WXPK.
WFUV is far worse and is pretty weak when it comes to ever hearing any new music. The last hour playing Bruce Springsteen, Fleetwood Mac and the Temptations is a good example of why they fail. What a mess of a format. Those artists just do not belong on an Alternative station. As far as Triple-A, WXPK is light years ahead of WFUV.
WXPK is a pretty good station as far as far Triple A goes. At least they throw in new music here and there. There is also new releases Wednesday. But still no comparison to ALT 92.3 when they played new music or the last incarnation of Classic Alt with a harder edge which is not heard on WXPK.
WFUV is far worse and is pretty weak when it comes to ever hearing any new music. The last hour playing Bruce Springsteen, Fleetwood Mac and the Temptations is a good example of why they fail. What a mess of a format. Those artists just do not belong on an Alternative station. As far as Triple-A, WXPK is light years ahead of WFUV.
Honestly the only new music I have heard about is Taylor Swift as that is all anyone seems to talk about.
And she gave in and adjusted her video because telling her life story was offensive to those poor victims who are trapped in a fat body.
You know she is really tall so I demand that Taylor be banned from wearing heels as that offends us men who are trapped in under 6 feet bodies.
Instead of getting on the scale and it reading fat, Taylor should have gotten on the scale and here comes Kanye to push her off of it.
What all of these suggestions to use streaming services doesn't address is that they don't serve the same needs as radio broadcasts. Streaming is great if one only wants to listen to nonstop music. But they offer virtually no personality, audio information about the music, sense of community, or local flavor. Add to that the subscription and the costs of the cell signal (not everyone has unlimited plans).
The comments on WNYL's Facebook page bemoaned the loss of the opportunity to listen to the personalities at least as much as the loss of the music.
It is unfortunate that HD Radio has been so poorly promoted. It has been improved to the point that it works quite well now (with the occasional drop out-just like satellite radio). I was quite bummed a year ago when WNSH 94.7 New York's Country was flipped. But I've come to find the continuation on 94.7 HD2 a decent trade off. All of the personalities on it were also heard on the original station, and there is one live/local show. And far fewer commercials. It seems quite likely WINS HD2 will evolve into something similar, for Alt fans.
The comments on WNYL's Facebook page bemoaned the loss of the opportunity to listen to the personalities at least as much as the loss of the music.
It is unfortunate that HD Radio has been so poorly promoted. It has been improved to the point that it works quite well now (with the occasional drop out-just like satellite radio). I was quite bummed a year ago when WNSH 94.7 New York's Country was flipped. But I've come to find the continuation on 94.7 HD2 a decent trade off. All of the personalities on it were also heard on the original station, and there is one live/local show. And far fewer commercials. It seems quite likely WINS HD2 will evolve into something similar, for Alt fans.
Really? Fans of Elliot? Most of the local personality on WNYL has been gone for a while.
To me, the biggest loss was Booker, but that was a while ago.
wibgradio99
Banned
to rock heritage NEW, when they flip first of the year after a Christmas stunt )
NYRadioFan22
Banned
I was sad when Christine left. She was wonderful as the midday host, funny, bubbly, and incredibly sweet!!!
NYRadioFan22
Banned
Wait, what?!?!?!?
Again, all AAA has in common with alternative rock format is the word "alternative." It's "adult" because it appeals to an older audience by design, And it's just as much an alternative to CHR as Alt 92.3 was. It doubles as an alternative to classic rock, too. But while it doesn't suffer under the "cynical slacker music" stereotype that alternative and active rock do, it plays too many obscure or old -- or both -- songs to attract much of an audience, especially in a city that moves to a rhythmic beat. WFUV is very good at what it does, but it's not being programmed for people like you. The people who it is being programmed for love it. There just aren't enough of them to make the format commercial. And that's another thing AAA and alt have in common!
If you don't have a phone plan with enough data to stream music in 2022 you're doing it wrong. If cost is the issue you can go with a prepaid plan from Mint or Cricket, or even AT&T which gives you 16GB data/month (or more since it rolls over) for $25/month with unlimited talk, texts, hotspot, Mexico and Canada roaming included. That's more than enough data for music streaming and anything else you need unless you plan to use your phone data to watch movies in HD all month.
As for the Spotify subscription it's $10/month for all the commercial-free listening you want, or free if you want to put up with ads (just like radio). Not a high bar. In fact it's a great value.
I'm really not hearing people complain about money being a deterrent to streaming music. Everyone I know has a smartphone and a data plan that lets them do what they want with it.
Marvin Gaye, Paul Simon, The Beatles and then a few milquetoast Alternative songs thrown in, it is really all over the place. Maybe they should call it something else other than Triple A, like Classic hits or something.
I am going to take a guess it is being programmed for donors 65+ with safe greatest hits from their time from all different formats with a couple of Alternative songs thrown in every now and then, so they can call it AAA.
I like the way WXPK does AAA. They make it all, old and new sound fresh, but if not them I find another stream online. Some how these other AAA outlets can mix it all together and it works. They sound fresh and new even if it is old, like WXPK does. WFUV just does not cut it for me in that respect for AAA. Like it is trying to hard.
I can pretty much listen to most AAA, Alternative, Active or other rock stations outside NYC without problem. NYC radio however some how it is always a mess when it comes close to any of these formats. One can say it is demographics, but that is an issue in every large city in the US but outside NYC they typically do not suffer from the weak stale sounding playlists.
Seems to me there's a reason why so many people are upset because alternative music is leaving NYC radio. We all know how to stream on our phones. It's not like people who work in or own radio companies don't know this. But what's curious to me is if it's so inexpensive and so easy to stream, why all the comments about the loss of alt on radio? Especially when most of these same people complained endlessly about WNYL when it was on the air.
AAA is a fairly pretentious, “white collar” format that is even more niche than Alt is in NYC. Is there anything wrong with that? No, but it’s definitely different than Alternative, which is (or was) more of an anti-music establishment and in your face format (although much less than, say, active or mainstream rock). The two formats are very different and attract a very different audience. AAA is not going to get anyone younger than Gen X in any sizable number while Alt does have a little more success.
The thing is, most that are upset don’t live in NYC. I’ve seen Long Island, NJ, Hudson Valley, etc - not many actually living in the market, and many aren’t even anywhere near NYC. Most of the discussion has been where Alt listeners in NYC, not the actual people commenting, could listen after WNYL changed formats. Perhaps many are upset because it’s symbolic of a genre going away on a mass appeal medium due to changes in tastes and demographics in market #1. The infighting with alternative listeners makes what I’ve seen about classic hits stations not playing 60s oldies look extremely calm.
I just don’t buy that many people are going to be affected in their listening habits by WNYL going away. It’s what it represents more than anything. Alternative is likely permanently gone from the NYC airwaves. If you’re an alternative and radio fan, sure it sucks. But things change, and most complained about WNYL the whole time it was on the air. We see from these posts why the format is struggling. No other format has this much division and armchair programmers.
Especially compared to how much it would cost to BUY those songs on a CD or download. Which explains why that part of the music business is shrinking and why so many cars no longer include a CD player.
But we should also point out that Spotify has never turned a profit. The company turned a $40 million loss in 2021. For all of the people deserting radio for Spotify, it's losing money. One could say the same about broadcast radio, but neither business appears to be a good one to be in now.
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