It's not just KRTH, and not just Los Angeles.

[TomásEstefan]

The world would have been changed without music. The Industrial Revolution happened without it. So did the discovery of electricity, and the end of World War II, unless you actually think that the Andrews Sisters hastened the death of Hitler and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I remember in my college days a professor bringing in no less a '60s figure than Timothy Leary in for a reporting exercise for us aspiring journos. He was to give a lecture on campus that night promoting his space migration scheme, but agreed to a wide-ranging press conference-style exercise with students that morning. Well, wouldn't you know that one of the first questions wasn't about his nutty scheme, or even about LSD, but about the Beatles and his thoughts on their message and impact a half-dozen or so years after their breakup. His reply made it into just about all of our stories, I'd imagine. He called the Beatles "troubadours." I sensed a lot of outrage in the room, including a bit of my own, but the passing years have convinced me that Dr. Leary was right. The Beatles were geniuses, but what they gave the world, reduced to its essence, was musical entertainment.

I should have been more clear. The Beatles themselves really didn't change the world, it was the world's reaction to them and their music that did.

As for Timothy Leary, he was probably one of the most hypocritical famous people ever...("Turn-on, Tune-in, Drop-out" (because most of you, like me, are very wealthy and have a wonderful home in Beverly Hills to hide out in). BTW - Don't trust anyone over 30! (I realize that I'm already well into my 40s but who can tell? )...Right!

 

[davideduardo]

You might not always hear the "innovative" stuff that you mentioned earlier on a full time Top 40 station. You know the Alan Freed story better than I. He wasn't originally on a Top 40 station in Cleveland.

Until what the start of the "Rock around the Clock" era of pop music, the few Top 40 stations were ones like KOWH and KLIF. Traditional stuff by Gogi Grant and friends, not the new wave of songs that gave many a dying network station a format to do instead of The Breakfast Club and the soaps, dramas and variety shows that had been the staple of the big four web affiliated stations in most cities.

The music we called Top 40 in the 60's and 70's did not even start to be produced until 1955. The "40" were popular songs, but not rock and roll songs.

Freed was on late nights after the network shows on WJW in Cleveland (as was Mad Daddy somewhat later). Freed was pre-rock and roll, playing a lot of Black r&b stuff. Since much of it had a dance beat, he started making money doing shows. The first Top 40 in Cleveland, WERE with Specs Howard and Joe Finan among others, did not start until around 1956... and they still ran the Rosary every evening at 6 PM! By that time, Freed was gone; soon we got one of Kluge's (later known for his corporate name of Metromedia) first stations, WHK... bought from the Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper because "radio was dead" (Quote, told to me many times, by Herman Lansing Vail whose family together owned the paper).

Like many markets, by the later 60's there were often two, three and even four Top 40 stations.

 

[TheBigA]

The music we called Top 40 in the 60's and 70's did not even start to be produced until 1955. The "40" were popular songs, but not rock and roll songs.

The rock & roll was forbidden in the early 50s. Top 40 didn't play the original versions of songs by Little Richard or Fats Domino. The Top 40 got Pat Boone. There is an interesting museum in the Sun Studios building in Memphis that includes some of the radio history in the mid 50s, since Sam Phillips also worked in radio.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

The world would have been changed without music. The Industrial Revolution happened without it. So did the discovery of electricity, and the end of World War II, unless you actually think that the Andrews Sisters hastened the death of Hitler and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I remember in my college days a professor bringing in no less a '60s figure than Timothy Leary in for a reporting exercise for us aspiring journos. He was to give a lecture on campus that night promoting his space migration scheme, but agreed to a wide-ranging press conference-style exercise with students that morning.

What rock music did was to bring together the sounds of Caucasian artists who sang country/western and Black artists who sang blues/gospel music. When the musical sounds came together, then young people of both races became interested in the same music, and that paved the way for the integration movement of the 1960's. Segregation had solidly been in effect for 100 years, and rock music shows, with their integrated stages featuring both races, broke through that barrier.

Dick Clark on ABC's Bandstand worked to get an integrated audience, because the Bandstand stage was integrated with both races.
Elvis wanted to sing for integrated audiences in Tennessee and Mississippi. "That's All Right" was originally a blues song recorded by Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup in 1948, as a "race record."

In 1965, Shindig's producer, Jack Good, booked the Rolling Stones, and they wanted to bring along a blues singer named "Howlin' Wolf." Howlin' Wolf got on stage and delivered a very raw, sensual performance. The image of a group of Caucasian teens sitting in a circle around a Black entertainer singing Mississippi blue was unheard of at that time. It's still preserved on You Tube. As I remember, the L.A. Times critics called it one of the 10 most memorable moments in television. I watched all those rock shows, and I was amazed.
I would never have heard that sound unless the Stones hadn't insisted that Howlin' Wolf be featured. ( ABC's network execs were not happy).
It's not all 60's-70's songs, but it is a significant number of songs and artists that created a zeitgeist that changed the world.

 

[TheBigA]

What rock music did was to bring together the sounds of Caucasian artists who sang country/western and Black artists who sang blues/gospel music.

One example of that was Jerry Lee Lewis and Otis Blackwell. Jerry Lee was a cousin of preacher Jimmy Swaggart and country star Mickey Gilley, Jerry Lee was recording at Sun Studios, where Elvis had been discovered. Elvis had a hit with Blackwell's song Don't Be Cruel. So Otis pitched Jerry another song in his catalog: Great Balls of Fire. Jerry's religious background caused him to struggle with the message of the song, but got talked into recording it. It became one of the biggest hits of his career, and he became lifelong friends with Otis, who happened to be a black man.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Elvis' release of "In the Ghetto" in 1969 had a very commercial sound to it and was not considered a counter-culture song. But it raised deep and troubling questions about the cycle of poverty and violence that afflicted many. I don't think any mainstream, charting songs in the 1930's and 40's dealt with the cycle of poverty, outside of Billie Holiday's "Nobody Wants You When You're Down and Out."

Songs like "Galveston", "Universal Soldier", or "Eve of Destruction", which questioned the need for wars or pointed out the effect of wars on human beings, would rarely be popular in the 1940's in mainstream, white Anglo music. I'm not sure they would even be published. But when those songs were played in the 60's and 70's, they gave many young people pause for thought.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

One example of that was Jerry Lee Lewis and Otis Blackwell. Jerry Lee was a cousin of preacher Jimmy Swaggart and country star Mickey Gilley, Jerry Lee was recording at Sun Studios, where Elvis had been discovered. Elvis had a hit with Blackwell's song Don't Be Cruel. So Otis pitched Jerry another song in his catalog: Great Balls of Fire. Jerry's religious background caused him to struggle with the message of the song, but got talked into recording it. It became one of the biggest hits of his career, and he became lifelong friends with Otis, who happened to be a black man.

Jerry Lee Lewis was from Louisiana, and he was really amazing. Just incredible. I first saw him on one of the dozen rock shows I watched constantly and thought I had never seen anyone like that. He absolutely blew the roof off of any place that he played. And his friendship with Otis Blackwell is a wonderful story.
I don't think there's ever been anyone like Jerry Lee since he stopped performing. Riveting, intense, immensely talented artist. Wow. 😃

 

[TheBigA]

Elvis' release of "In the Ghetto" in 1969 had a very commercial sound to it and was not considered a counter-culture song.

It was written by Mac Davis. It was Mac's first big hit as a writer. He then went on to have pop & country hits on his own. Elvis was taken by the story, that he felt was similar to his own. He recorded it in Memphis, and it became his first pop hit in four years. Elvis recorded several major hits during that session, including Kentucky Rain, written by Eddie Rabbitt. Eddie of course had country hits too. The piano player on that session was Ronnie Milsap. He's in the Country Hall of Fame.

 

[TomásEstefan]

The rock & roll was forbidden in the early 50s. Top 40 didn't play the original versions of songs by Little Richard or Fats Domino. The Top 40 got Pat Boone. There is an interesting museum in the Sun Studios building in Memphis that includes some of the radio history in the mid 50s, since Sam Phillips also worked in radio.

In those early times Rock & Roll music was considered inappropriate for "White folks", of interest only to certain "minorities".

 

[CTListener]

What rock music did was to bring together the sounds of Caucasian artists who sang country/western and Black artists who sang blues/gospel music. When the musical sounds came together, then young people of both races became interested in the same music, and that paved the way for the integration movement of the 1960's. Segregation had solidly been in effect for 100 years, and rock music shows, with their integrated stages featuring both races, broke through that barrier.

Dick Clark on ABC's Bandstand worked to get an integrated audience, because the Bandstand stage was integrated with both races.
Elvis wanted to sing for integrated audiences in Tennessee and Mississippi. "That's All Right" was originally a blues song recorded by Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup in 1948, as a "race record."

In 1965, Shindig's producer, Jack Good, booked the Rolling Stones, and they wanted to bring along a blues singer named "Howlin' Wolf." Howlin' Wolf got on stage and delivered a very raw, sensual performance. The image of a group of Caucasian teens sitting in a circle around a Black entertainer singing Mississippi blue was unheard of at that time. It's still preserved on You Tube. As I remember, the L.A. Times critics called it one of the 10 most memorable moments in television. I watched all those rock shows, and I was amazed.
I would never have heard that sound unless the Stones hadn't insisted that Howlin' Wolf be featured. ( ABC's network execs were not happy).
It's not all 60's-70's songs, but it is a significant number of songs and artists that created a zeitgeist that changed the world.

I'm not questioning the impact of the rock and soul and blues music of the late '50s and '60s on radio or on popular music as a whole. My point is that I can't buy into any of that music actually changing national or world history. Unions would have become strong whether or not Woody Guthrie was singing about them. Congress didn't need "We Shall Overcome" to pass the Civil Rights Act. Environmental protection legislation didn't get passed because Marvin Gaye sang "Mercy Mercy Me" or the Grass Roots [EDIT: Three Dog Night] sang "Family of Man." Music provides a soundtrack to historical documentaries and to people's memories of historical turning points, but that's not the same as it actually having caused those changes.

 

[michael hagerty]

I'm not questioning the impact of the rock and soul and blues music of the late '50s and '60s on radio or on popular music as a whole. My point is that I can't buy into any of that music actually changing national or world history. Unions would have become strong whether or not Woody Guthrie was singing about them. Congress didn't need "We Shall Overcome" to pass the Civil Rights Act. Environmental protection legislation didn't get passed because Marvin Gaye sang "Mercy Mercy Me" or the Grass Roots sang "Family of Man." Music provides a soundtrack to historical documentaries and to people's memories of historical turning points, but that's not the same as it actually having caused those changes.

Family of Man was Three Dog Night.

 

[CTListener]

Family of Man was Three Dog Night.

Oh crap, you're right. There goes whatever was left of my credibility. 😬

 

[cc333]

One can debate the particulars of who was inspired by what and why, but one thing that I think is pretty much undeniable is that the late 50s, 60s and early 70s were a very special, unique and highly influential moment in the history of popular music (and pretty much everything else). And, in my opinion, virtually no other modern period has come close to matching it.

The 80s deserve attention, though, as lots of influential things came from that decade as well (Hip Hop first appeared in a form recognizable as modern in the 80s, for example), but nothing like Elvis or the Beatles, I don't think.

c

 

[TheBigA]

One can debate the particulars of who was inspired by what and why, but one thing that I think is pretty much undeniable is that the late 50s, 60s and early 70s were a very special, unique and highly influential moment in the history of popular music

I think the coming together of music & mass media at the same time is what made the impact. Now we're seeing the reverse.

 

[davideduardo]

I think the coming together of music & mass media at the same time is what made the impact. Now we're seeing the reverse.

A great part of that "coming together" was due to the decline in influence of the musician's union, and the "Mussolini of Music", Petrillo. That allowed radio and the record business to work together, and allowed radio to play music formats without having to have compensatory studio orchestras on staff.

And part of the separation of interests has to do with the consolidation of the music industry under foreign ownership and the belief that radio matters a lot less today.

Petrillo thought that radio airplay of records reduced the income of his union members. Today, the record "biz" feels radio is of no value and ought to pay to play.

 

[TheBigA]

That allowed radio and the record business to work together, and allowed radio to play music formats without having to have compensatory studio orchestras on staff.

I bet most people today have no idea what you're talking about. They think radio always had DJs playing records. The fact is the reason the Grand Old Opry was started was so WSM could play music and not get sued by the musicians union. To this day, on every Opry show, there's a union rep nearby, checking membership of all performers, almost 100 years later.

 

[davideduardo]

I bet most people today have no idea what you're talking about. They think radio always had DJs playing records. The fact is the reason the Grand Old Opry was started was so WSM could play music and not get sued by the musicians union. To this day, on every Opry show, there's a union rep nearby, checking membership of all performers, almost 100 years later.

Bravo, excellent!

You just hit on the reason why I built www.worldradiohistory.com: to present actual facts in actual responsible journals and books about the radio industry. 22 years ago, I found myself correcting people "in house" at one company where I was employed when they brought up arguments for things like format changes, ratings, coverage areas and more that were just wrong.

I had to try to avoid bad current decisions based on inaccurate historical data; I began by buying and scanning all the issues of Broadcasting Yearbook and Broadcasting Magazine. Today, I cover all kinds of business, music and technical data.

My pet usage of my files is in correcting people who believe that major radio stations used Billboard (Cash Box, Record World) to select music rather than Gavin, R&R, Hamilton, FMQB and all the other "tip sheets" and magazines that radio actually used until BDS and MediaBase killed them all.

 

[TheBigA]

Gavin, R&R, Hamilton, FMQB and all the other "tip sheets" and magazines that radio actually used until BDS and MediaBase killed them all.

Although as you know there are still some online tip sheets and insider blogs that have continued that tradition in a non-tactile way. The consultants and influencers still have places to do their thing. Just using different names. But yes, and now Mediabase killed BDS.

 

[michael hagerty]

Bravo, excellent!

You just hit on the reason why I built www.worldradiohistory.com: to present actual facts in actual responsible journals and books about the radio industry. 22 years ago, I found myself correcting people "in house" at one company where I was employed when they brought up arguments for things like format changes, ratings, coverage areas and more that were just wrong.

I had to try to avoid bad current decisions based on inaccurate historical data; I began by buying and scanning all the issues of Broadcasting Yearbook and Broadcasting Magazine. Today, I cover all kinds of business, music and technical data.

My pet usage of my files is in correcting people who believe that major radio stations used Billboard (Cash Box, Record World) to select music rather than Gavin, R&R, Hamilton, FMQB and all the other "tip sheets" and magazines that radio actually used until BDS and MediaBase killed them all.

Billboard was so clearly aimed at the retailer, rackjobber and wholesaler. What gave them any pull in radio at all were its radio awards and (prior to R&R) Claude Hall with radio industry gossip and the chance for even minor-market jocks (like me) to see their name in print.

In fact, a mention in Vox Jox is what got me the gig in 1976 where I met the woman I married 40 years later, so…thanks, Claude!

 

[TheBigA]

Billboard was so clearly aimed at the retailer, rackjobber and wholesaler.

In the way Variety was aimed at Broadway and "legitimate theater," as they called it.

But there was also Record World and Cash Box for the retail and jukebox world.