98.1/102.7 Outside of Target Markets?

[MegaBlue]

I know that, being out by Lorain, I'm way outside of the range to pick up WKDD 98.1 by intention, but I enjoy the station, and it comes in fairly decently most of the time, unless the wind blows the wrong way. I can't figure out which station from where is overpowering WKDD on the 98.1 frequency, but there's an R&B station that's on 97.9 that I can pick up out here. (Sidebar: Does anyone notice that the 98.1 WKDD feed on the iHeart app skips random beats during every song that they play? I'm pretty sure "Stronger" by Kelly Clarkson is also pitched up to make it faster. The regular station sounds fine, but the iHeart app feed skips beats during every song, and it's not a case of lag, as the track timer flows perfectly fine.)

Also, WCPZ 102.7 is now getting knocked out by a different 102.7 station out here, and I'm not sure if it's someone running a pirate station or if it's a case of something from Canada or elsewhere getting picked up, but that's getting irritating. I'm about ready to go back to my iPod to play music in my car again.

 

[Yabadabado1]

I know that, being out by Lorain, I'm way outside of the range to pick up WKDD 98.1 by intention, but I enjoy the station, and it comes in fairly decently most of the time, unless the wind blows the wrong way. I can't figure out which station from where is overpowering WKDD on the 98.1 frequency, but there's an R&B station that's on 97.9 that I can pick up out here. (Sidebar: Does anyone notice that the 98.1 WKDD feed on the iHeart app skips random beats during every song that they play? I'm pretty sure "Stronger" by Kelly Clarkson is also pitched up to make it faster. The regular station sounds fine, but the iHeart app feed skips beats during every song, and it's not a case of lag, as the track timer flows perfectly fine.)

Also, WCPZ 102.7 is now getting knocked out by a different 102.7 station out here, and I'm not sure if it's someone running a pirate station or if it's a case of something from Canada or elsewhere getting picked up, but that's getting irritating. I'm about ready to go back to my iPod to play music in my car again.

Might be WDFM out of Napoleon OH. on 98.1. Or CHFI out of Toronto, Ca. Other possibilities: WKCQ out of Saginaw, MI., CKLO out of London, Ontario., Can you tell what type of format the intruding station has?

 

[radiofollower]

What you seem to be experiencing is some skip from Detroit R&B station WJLB (97.9) and Christian station WDKL in Mount Clemens, Michigan (102.7). Depending on weather conditions, these stations can be a factor in your area.

 

[schmave]

I agree you're definitely hearing Detroit on 97.9. It's a regular in Toledo and it's not all that far a reach for that signal to make it to Lorain.
I'm a little surprised that powerful 102.7 signal from Sandusky is getting clobbered as badly as you mention by the Detroit station, especially being as close as you are.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

WCPZ was a semi ish regulator visitor when I lived in Ridgway, PA... WKDD was kinda common
Wanna know who the biggest surprise was?
WKTL 90.7, often with RDS! Quite Regularly.....never heard WAPS 91.3

 

[Santa fe]

There is a regular skip/inversion tunnel that opens up between Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit, especially in the summer. And when it does, it wreaks havoc even with local full power stations. Toledo 99.9, Detroit 100.3 and 97.9 and 102.7 are the most regular ones I hear. And it works both ways. I was in Detroit last year and WMJI 105.7 was blaring in for a time. I can almost always hear Windsor 93.9 nearer the lake, however.
The best was some years ago when I was in the car here and punched in WMMS. Instead of The Buzzard I heard top 40...it was Y100, 100.7 in Miami! Several other local stations were also obliterated by Miami signals and dialing around it was as if I was sitting on Miami Beach, they were so loud and clear. At home, on my indoor antenna TV (this was before digital) I could pick up Miami channels 2, 6, 7 and 10 like I lived there! I watched and DX'd all afternoon and just before dusk, they all disappeared, as if someone threw a switch.
I've heard other stories of weird skip phenomena. But we also can't dismiss the proliferation of translators that only add to the mish mash on FM. Glad the FCC is putting a freeze on them, at least for a while.

 

[skiwest]

WJCU 88.7 quite often gets blown away by a Canadian station during the summer.

 

[schmave]

CIMX, the powerful former 89X, no doubt ... now known as "Pure Country 89." That 100K really blasts. I've heard them south of Findlay under normal conditions and almost to Columbus if the atmosphere is really friendly. They were one of the more popular stations in Toledo during my college years.

 

[MegaBlue]

Might be WDFM out of Napoleon OH. on 98.1. Or CHFI out of Toronto, Ca. Other possibilities: WKCQ out of Saginaw, MI., CKLO out of London, Ontario., Can you tell what type of format the intruding station has?

I'd have to park somewhere long enough for my car stereo to pick up what station it is, but mostly, it's static cutting in, like 97.9 is overlapping it. I know that 92.3 The Beat/Xtreme Radio used to get murdered by Detroit's Mix 92.3 back in the day when I'd be deep into Lorain by the Mercy hospital.

The only Canadian station I can pick up - often enough that it's a preset on my car stereo - is 94.3 CKSY, and that's if the wind's blowing right. Chatham-Kent is a long way from Lorain, but maybe sound waves traverse Lake Erie better?

As for translators, I never realized just how many stations are on FM nowadays. I thought there was a limit as to how far apart they had to be to prevent interference? Now, it seems like there are only a couple 'free' frequencies around here. I know that, ironically enough, 94.3FM has nothing licensed to it for our city, but I'm sure that, if anything tried to come online to that one, it'd get killed by whatever's surrounding it.

It's not that WCPZ is getting beaten *badly*, but it's hard to hear when the weather conditions mess with things around here. It's just part and parcel of living between a bunch of different markets - everything tries to overpower everything else, and things you'd expect to come in don't - and the same goes for OTA TV. I picked up a flat antenna for a couple bucks at a salvage store - brand new - and it works, but I still can't get Fox 8 on it. I can pick up some of 3 and 5 (they can be blotchy at times), all of the 25 offshoots, all the 43s, all the 55s, and I think 61 is good.

 

[VintageMac]

I'd have to park somewhere long enough for my car stereo to pick up what station it is, but mostly, it's static cutting in, like 97.9 is overlapping it. I know that 92.3 The Beat/Xtreme Radio used to get murdered by Detroit's Mix 92.3 back in the day when I'd be deep into Lorain by the Mercy hospital.

The only Canadian station I can pick up - often enough that it's a preset on my car stereo - is 94.3 CKSY, and that's if the wind's blowing right. Chatham-Kent is a long way from Lorain, but maybe sound waves traverse Lake Erie better?

As for translators, I never realized just how many stations are on FM nowadays. I thought there was a limit as to how far apart they had to be to prevent interference? Now, it seems like there are only a couple 'free' frequencies around here. I know that, ironically enough, 94.3FM has nothing licensed to it for our city, but I'm sure that, if anything tried to come online to that one, it'd get killed by whatever's surrounding it.

It's not that WCPZ is getting beaten *badly*, but it's hard to hear when the weather conditions mess with things around here. It's just part and parcel of living between a bunch of different markets - everything tries to overpower everything else, and things you'd expect to come in don't - and the same goes for OTA TV. I picked up a flat antenna for a couple bucks at a salvage store - brand new - and it works, but I still can't get Fox 8 on it. I can pick up some of 3 and 5 (they can be blotchy at times), all of the 25 offshoots, all the 43s, all the 55s, and I think 61 is good.

Fox 8 is on a VHF frequency RF8 and those flat antennas are generally UHF only although if you're close enough to the towers in Parma, they might work. WOIO/WUAB is also on VHF, RF 10 where most others are UHF frequencies. Depending on where you live, you might need something more than the flat type antenna. Some are amplified which might help.

 

[Radio Bob]

As a youngster living near Fremont Ohio in the 1960's I found that 102.7 ( then WLEC FM ) was frequently clobbered by 102.7 ( then WBRB FM ) in Mt Clemons Michigan. WLEC FM was only 5.9 kw at about 120 feet then and only 20 miles away from me while WBRB FM was 20kw at 500 feet and 100 miles away. Even with a yagi antenna I could not block out WBRB. The issue is lake Erie which makes a nice tunnel to send signals South. Because of that I listened to WXYZ FM, WJBK FM, WABX FM and many more regularly

BTW if you don't know when TV started Cleveland had channels on 4 and 9 which were switched to 3 and 8 because of the problems viewers had from Lorain West when Detroit and Cleveland channels interfered with each other at the viewer's home

 

[Yabadabado1]

Fox 8 is on a VHF frequency RF8 and those flat antennas are generally UHF only although if you're close enough to the towers in Parma, they might work. WOIO/WUAB is also on VHF, RF 10 where most others are UHF frequencies. Depending on where you live, you might need something more than the flat type antenna. Some are amplified which might help.

Was told a few years ago by a WJW engineer that they can't increase wattage because it would interfere with a TV station somewhere in western Ohio and in Canada. My thing is why not put repeater stations in areas where the signal, when analog, used to reach, but going digital doesn't reach. WOIO has a repeater on a tower on the Akron/Norton border which means I can now get it where, as before, it was chancy that I would get a signal some days and other days, zilch.

 

[snowdog88]

Was told a few years ago by a WJW engineer that they can't increase wattage because it would interfere with a TV station somewhere in western Ohio and in Canada. My thing is why not put repeater stations in areas where the signal, when analog, used to reach, but going digital doesn't reach. WOIO has a repeater on a tower on the Akron/Norton border which means I can now get it where, as before, it was chancy that I would get a signal some days and other days, zilch.

WJW applied for a 30 kW increase for RF 8 over a decade ago, but it never got built as the signal would have to be limited towards the southwest and southeast, essentially mimicking their current 11 kW non-directional coverage. In the end, the only improvement would have been seen over Lake Erie, which wasn't worth the effort to increase to 30 kW.

That interfering station is likely WLIO in Lima. I believe they tried to block WJW's 30 kW increase.

WJW did file for 2 digital replacement translators around 2012, both of which would have been located in Salem, OH on the WNEO tower. One was filed for RF 46 aimed to the north, the other for RF 21 aimed to the west. With details about the upcoming repack emerging around this time, it's likely that WJW simply abandoned these repeaters before they ever got built. This may have also been the reason why they abandoned their move back to RF 31, as they would have to eventually re-locate to another frequency or back to RF 8. As of now, there is really nowhere for WJW to sign on a repeater in an affected area due to very few vacant frequencies, and any usable ones would be severely limited to prevent co-channel interference to a nearby station.

 

[VintageMac]

Was told a few years ago by a WJW engineer that they can't increase wattage because it would interfere with a TV station somewhere in western Ohio and in Canada. My thing is why not put repeater stations in areas where the signal, when analog, used to reach, but going digital doesn't reach. WOIO has a repeater on a tower on the Akron/Norton border which means I can now get it where, as before, it was chancy that I would get a signal some days and other days, zilch.

What you mentioned is true but you also said you're using a flat antenna which as I said is not great for VHF reception and Fox 8 is on RF8 so in your case, you may just need a better antenna. Analog did go further is some areas in the past but it's difficult to compare so the only thing you can do is try a different and appropriate antenna. Check the RabbitEars site to see what stations you can receive:

RabbitEars.Info

RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.

www.rabbitears.info

 

[Yabadabado1]

What you mentioned is true but you also said you're using a flat antenna which as I said is not great for VHF reception and Fox 8 is on RF8 so in your case, you may just need a better antenna. Analog did go further is some areas in the past but it's difficult to compare so the only thing you can do is try a different and appropriate antenna. Check the RabbitEars site to see what stations you can receive:

RabbitEars.Info

RabbitEars, where you can learn all about local, over-the-air TV channels.

www.rabbitears.info

I never said I use a flat antenna. I have a Clearstream indoor/outdoor antenna that's supposed to be good for 60+ miles. Right now it's indoor, I'd install it outside but I am terrified of heights so I ain't going up on the roof to put it up. Not unless I want my bowels to evacuate all over the neighborhood. At one point I lived only about three miles from the tower 19's repeater is on and some days I still couldn't pick it up. I've moved since then. What was weird is days I could pick up 8, I couldn't get 19/43 and days I couldn't get 8, I could pick up 19/43. And some days I could get neither.

 

[Santa fe]

Nothing about the digital channel flips and various channel repacks have made a lot of sense to me. WOIO would have been ecstatic to get channel 10 in the analog days but they were shoved onto the poorest choice of digital 10 while ensuing musical chairs reassigned their old rf 19 to someone else. ???? I can't reliably get 19 or 8 on any otr set and I can see the tops of the tv towers from my second floor windows.
I think it's all prelude to streaming tv and leaving complex, expensive and fussy rf transmissions behind.

 

[VintageMac]

I never said I use a flat antenna. I have a Clearstream indoor/outdoor antenna that's supposed to be good for 60+ miles. Right now it's indoor, I'd install it outside but I am terrified of heights so I ain't going up on the roof to put it up. Not unless I want my bowels to evacuate all over the neighborhood. At one point I lived only about three miles from the tower 19's repeater is on and some days I still couldn't pick it up. I've moved since then. What was weird is days I could pick up 8, I couldn't get 19/43 and days I couldn't get 8, I could pick up 19/43. And some days I could get neither.

You had mentioned the flat antenna in a previous post and not the Clearstream as you did now.

So anyway, if you go to the RabbitEars site I mentioned and put in your location, you can see what channels are available and using the Longley-Rice maps which give you a color code, you can get an idea of what you might receive. It does assume an antenna height of 13 feet above the ground minimum so keep that in mind. Using an antenna indoors is fine assuming your windows do not block the signal or any other building materials in your walls that could do the same. The Clearstream series are great antennas especially the 4 series but the 2 works well enough for most situations. But the VHF rods that come with those are only going to work fairly well if you're already in a weak signal situation.

 

[Yabadabado1]

You had mentioned the flat antenna in a previous post and not the Clearstream as you did now.

So anyway, if you go to the RabbitEars site I mentioned and put in your location, you can see what channels are available and using the Longley-Rice maps which give you a color code, you can get an idea of what you might receive. It does assume an antenna height of 13 feet above the ground minimum so keep that in mind. Using an antenna indoors is fine assuming your windows do not block the signal or any other building materials in your walls that could do the same. The Clearstream series are great antennas especially the 4 series but the 2 works well enough for most situations. But the VHF rods that come with those are only going to work fairly well if you're already in a weak signal situation.

My mind is like a memory card, once it reaches a certain point, crap gets overwritten. That previous post must have been a while ago; I've updated my antenna since then. Already have done that RabbitEars site.

 

[schmave]

WJW did file for 2 digital replacement translators around 2012, both of which would have been located in Salem, OH on the WNEO tower. One was filed for RF 46 aimed to the north, the other for RF 21 aimed to the west. With details about the upcoming repack emerging around this time, it's likely that WJW simply abandoned these repeaters before they ever got built. This may have also been the reason why they abandoned their move back to RF 31, as they would have to eventually re-locate to another frequency or back to RF 8. As of now, there is really nowhere for WJW to sign on a repeater in an affected area due to very few vacant frequencies, and any usable ones would be severely limited to prevent co-channel interference to a nearby station.

I am surprised that would be allowed given that Salem is in the Youngstown market, so out of market even if WJW is carried there. I wonder if Youngstown's Fox affiliate could have blocked such an effort had it progressed.

 

[MegaBlue]

It's sort of relevant to my original topic, but it's another iHeart90's Weekend on 98.1 WKDD this weekend! As is the status quo with any major holiday where the offices are closed, they've shifted into iHeart90's mode for Labor Day. I'd expect the next one to happen with Thanksgiving, although that might be when/if they switch to all Christmas music.

New Year's Day is definitely another one, and I think Easter is the next one after that, followed by Memorial Day and July 4th, so that's, what, six times a year they do it?