Maui fires & cell phone service failed

[alok]

The tragedy that hit the island of Maui is sad for all the people effected and all that lost their lives.

One thing that occurred as a result of these fires was that cell service in the impacted area failed.
The fire apparently destroyed a number of cell towers in the area of the fire.
If people while fleeing were trying to call loved ones or trying to find out info via say a stream, their cell phones let them down. Yes, once they got out of the affected area cell reception may have come back, but when they needed it most it let them down.
Unfortunately ... there are many young people that feel their cell phone can do it all - yes when the system is working.

I don't know the status of radio on Maui, if it was impacted by the fires, but if it was I doubt every station is off the air, even if they were you have signals from the other areas on Maui not effected by the fires or even signals from other islands that make it to Maui . . . they could have fed info to the people in need. In this case people would have got info as needed by radio (AM or FM) if people had a radio (battery operated), a radio in their cell or Smartphone or their car radio if in a safe place to listen.

I said afew months back when the subject of broadcasting vs streaming was talked about, I mentioned that the phone circuits can easily get disrupted, I brought up instances years ago and many said the phone system is much better equipped now - well it failed on Maui in 2023.

Where as radio (yes it is just one way info but if you need to know - one way info works) can get the message thru.
It is possible a local radio station could be off the air in this Maui case, but with radio you could hear signals strong enough beyond the affected area to cover the impacted area to help people in need.

Again, let's not forget that these fires, the property and the lives lost is a tragedy.

Al

 

[kwthom]

It is possible a local radio station could be off the air in this Maui case, but with radio you could hear signals strong enough beyond the affected area to cover the impacted area to help people in need.

Tragedy, indeed.

Yet, we have know (working) knowlege of the infrastructure required (or mandated) for broadcasting to happen on that end of the island.

...or, how information would be provided for people to be directed to listen to a station on an adjacent island, if conditions allow that to happen.

 

[speer360]

COWs and COLTs are made to supply such a area during disasters. Problem is they are in Honolulu and need to be barged in.

On the mainland, they just are driven to the location.

this “problem” will be gone in a few years as satellite mobile service is launched.

 

[speer360]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/tech/cell-service-outages-maui-fires/index.html

“Local radio stations are still on the air and providing lifeline information to residents and visitors.“

 

[xkxrx]

Anyone know if the local ham radio operators mobilized to provide comms?

 

[Kelly A]

Hawaiian towns and cities deal with unique geography, with mountains dividing coastal communities. In this tragic and very unique situation; the fires moved very quickly, driven by winds and blocking escape inland. In this case with Lahaina; the town was completely leveled. Even boats in the harbor were burned by embers flying off the island and catching them on fire. Cell phones or radio stations don't do anyone any good if rescuers are blocked from getting into town, or are forced to evacuate themselves.
And, since this tragedy occurred in the middle of the night, it's likely that no radio station still operating could have offered any useful information to a town that was completely leveled by fire.

 

[davideduardo]

And, since this tragedy occurred in the middle of the night, it's likely that no radio station still operating could have offered any useful information to a town that was completely leveled by fire.

EAS?

If activated, it could "take over" any on-air stations and broadcast emergency information.

But, like Minot, how many people are listening to the radio late at night? Ideally, if the huge islands-wide siren system had gone off, many people would have been alerted at any time of the day, and some would have found radio stations activated by EAS providing information.

As was the case in Minot, it was government authorities who failed to activate the emergency systems. In this case, the sirens and the EAS system.

 

[tbolt909]

EAS?

If activated, it could "take over" any on-air stations and broadcast emergency information.

But, like Minot, how many people are listening to the radio late at night? Ideally, if the huge islands-wide siren system had gone off, many people would have been alerted at any time of the day, and some would have found radio stations activated by EAS providing information.

As was the case in Minot, it was government authorities who failed to activate the emergency systems. In this case, the sirens and the EAS system.

The fact that the sirens were not sounded is the worst part.
People would have likely figured out what was happening sooner and some lives could have been saved. They wouldn't have been looking for a Radio, though. One look at the sky and the high winds would have been sufficient info. However, finding a safe evacuation path in a remote area is still difficult...

 

[Kelly A]

EAS?

If activated, it could "take over" any on-air stations and broadcast emergency information.

But, like Minot, how many people are listening to the radio late at night? Ideally, if the huge islands-wide siren system had gone off, many people would have been alerted at any time of the day, and some would have found radio stations activated by EAS providing information.

As was the case in Minot, it was government authorities who failed to activate the emergency systems. In this case, the sirens and the EAS system.

You essentially answered your own question. Like Minot, this fire happened late in the day, middle of the night, and spread crazy quickly. Most of the stations in Hawaii have consolidated studios in Honolulu, but transmitters/translators on mountain ranges cover the other islands too. As I mentioned prior, apparently this fire spread so quickly, that once local authorities activated EAS, they had to evacuate the area. Their offices and fire stations were all destroyed as was the rest of the town. Also, like other tourist towns in Hawaii, there might be one or two volunteer fire stations in town. It wouldn't surprise me if the volunteers needed to save themselves and their families because access had been cut off to the firehouses.
My point was; saying; see, cellphone services were down but radio stations could have saved the day; really doesn't apply here. Like the Paradise CA. fire, the entire town was leveled. Nobody had time to worry about posting status on Facebook via their smartphone or tune in to the radio to hear the entire town is on fire.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

In the Paradise fire, which was fairly close to me, residents fleeing the fire tuned in on their car radios to hear the evacuation routes and instructions. They used the radio as they were trying to drive out of the fire. I know this because residents in my neighborhood have a vacation house in Paradise, where they were staying at the time. Yes, the EAS system was in operation 24 hours a day.
You don’t tube into a radio to hear.the town is on fire. You know there is a fire because suddenly there are ashes and smoke everywhere. Breathing becomes difficult and painful . Eyes become painful. People in the path of the fire know there is a fire. They need to know the escape routes and how fast the fire is moving. Sometimes fires move in two directions at the same time, depending if there are 2 or 3 active perimeters of the fire.
In Maui, the sirens did not get activated. But the EAS system will work to give the most current information.
It’s not like the train wreck in Ohio.
It’s like a big earthquake. No one listens for entertainment. They listen as they are. evacuating.

 

[davideduardo]

However, finding a safe evacuation path in a remote are is still difficult...

You are not familiar with the "lay of the land" on volcanic or seismic origin islands, right? Most have a rugged, substantially inaccessible interior region that is rough and mountainous. This zone is surrounded by a narrow and flatter coastal plain, generally only a few miles wide. Most roads and transportation routes are on the flat lands which encircle an island.

Some islands have flat or sloping highlands above the coastal zone, formed by ancient volcanic runoff; that is where in US areas such as Hawaii, Puerto Rico and even American Somoa we see sugar cane, pineapple and other plantations. Go a bit higher and we may find land appropriate for crops like coffee. But the main routes run along the coast or through valleys between ancient volcanoes.

So the issue is not "remoteness" but accessibility and the limits of roads in highlands or mountain slopes.

 

[tbolt909]

Again, Radio could not have helped much in this case.
The lack of sirens was a major blunder. First responders may not have been able to get to many areas as the fire raged. On an island, your escape routes are severely limited. It's an unfortunate event, but with Climate Change we will see much more of this...

 

[tbolt909]

You are not familiar with the "lay of the land" on volcanic or seismic origin islands, right? Most have a rugged, substantially inaccessible interior region that is rough and mountainous. This zone is surrounded by a narrow and flatter coastal plain, generally only a few miles wide. Most roads and transportation routes are on the flat lands which encircle an island.

Some islands have flat or sloping highlands above the coastal zone, formed by ancient volcanic runoff; that is where in US areas such as Hawaii, Puerto Rico and even American Somoa we see sugar cane, pineapple and other plantations. Go a bit higher and we may find land appropriate for crops like coffee. But the main routes run along the coast or through valleys between ancient volcanoes.

So the issue is not "remoteness" but accessibility and the limits of roads in highlands or mountain slopes.

If the main routes are blocked by fire and jumping into the ocean is your only option, that's "Remote". You can't drive off the island...

 

[davideduardo]

You essentially answered your own question. Like Minot, this fire happened late in the day, middle of the night, and spread crazy quickly. Most of the stations in Hawaii have consolidated studios in Honolulu, but transmitters/translators on mountain ranges cover the other islands too.

There are 42 commercial, non-coms and translators licensed to Maui. 26 are full AM or FM, not translators. The major commercial FM stations all appear to be local, not networked out of Oahu.

Only a couple of NPR and religious stations seem to be networked. Some seem to carry some programming from Honolulu, but the rest are typical local radio stations.

5 stations are lower-band 5,000 watt AMs, including one on 550 that puts a 5 mV/m over 75% of the island and a 2 mV/m over the whole thing. None of the Honolulu AMs have even a 2 mV/m anywhere near Lahaina. Somehow the threads here indicate the idea that there is reliable reception of Honolulu stations in the area of Lahaina. In fact, most of the Maui stations don't cover that whole island.

The most powerful FMs with corresponding high antenna locations all have "Maui" in their slogan. They are not networked. Only one big signal is licensed to Lahaina but has studios and offices in Kahului.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

Again, Radio could not have helped much in this case.
The lack of sirens was a major blunder. First responders may not have been able to get to many areas as the fire raged. On an island, your escape routes are severely limited. It's an unfortunate event, but with Climate Change we will see much more of this...

True and also Hawaii is not well known for wildfires that put them in the largest wildfires in the state. I don't know how prepared Hawaii was for this disaster prior to this.

 

[davideduardo]

If the main routes are blocked by fire and jumping into the ocean is your only option, that's "Remote". You can't drive off the island...

As someone who lived on an island for about three decades and has family there still, I can say "please don't lecture about something you know nothing about". You have filled your pedantry quota quite amply on this one.

 

[davideduardo]

True and also Hawaii is not well known for wildfires that put them in the largest wildfires in the state. I don't know how prepared Hawaii was for this disaster prior to this.

There are many reports that highly flamable non-native vegetation has filled abandoned farming and ranching areas and it is very susceptible to seasonal or unusual dryness and the winds from the recent hurricane simply ventilated the fire once it started.

 

[davideduardo]

Again, Radio could not have helped much in this case.
The lack of sirens was a major blunder. First responders may not have been able to get to many areas as the fire raged. On an island, your escape routes are severely limited. It's an unfortunate event, but with Climate Change we will see much more of this...

In this case, the intensifying elements were three in number and they combined for a "perfect storm". First, it was an unusually dry season (but not a new phenomenon). Second, there was a hurricane that fanned any fire with its winds. Third, there was a great amount on non-native flammable vegetation that easily caught fire. Together, irrespective of climate change, they formed the basis for the fire.

 

[tbolt909]

As someone who lived on an island for about three decades and has family there still, I can say "please don't lecture about something you know nothing about". You have filled your pedantry quota quite amply on this one.

You seem to think the word remote is an insult. It's not. You have no idea where I have lived. Get a grip. It was a tragic event. Nobody is blaming people for living on an island. The fact remains that escape routes are limited when something like this happens. Your other comments indicate that you also deny Climate Change as a real threat. That makes you part of the problem...

 

[davideduardo]

You seem to think the word remote is an insult. It's not. You have no idea where I have lived. Get a grip. It was a tragic event. Nobody is blaming people for living on an island. The fact remains that escape routes are limited when something like this happens...

The issue in question here is why the Hawaiian and Maui authorities did not activate the sirens and why EAS was not similarly activated in tandem.

While not everyone is listening to the radio at all times, enough are so that in a real emergency neighbors will tell other neighbors; enough people are "good neighbors" to make sure that "the old couple down the block" is told to get the H out of the area.

My experience on an island is more related to flooding. When you have tropical storm type rains on an island that has limited flat lands and huge mountain and hill regions in its center, all the rain (and if you have never seen tropical storm rain, it is unlike anything in a temperate climate) runs down onto the flatter coastal areas and overwhelms drainage capacity causing severe flooding, washed out bridges and swept-away structures.

Fires do the same thing. They find fuel and create their own winds and climate. And there is more stuff to burn in coastal area, particularly if the vegetation is not native.