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WXNY IDing past TOH

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Should there be an FCC rule requiring legal identification if it’s not enforced? Probably not. Is rewriting the rules a high priority for the FCC? Also, probably not.
The rule allows the ID at whenever the station believes to be a natural break in programming. As long as that is a station decision, there are no broken rules.
 
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The rule allows the ID at whenever the station believes to be a natural break in programming. As long as that is a station decision, there are no broken rules.
Are there still rules against insertion of "in" between call letters and city of license? I remember listening to a jazz DJ (community volunteer, not a radio pro) on WPKN Bridgeport who would insert "right here in" between "WPKN" and "Bridgeport." This was several years ago. Has the FCC ever fined a station for something like this? Or is it accepted as improvisation because, after all, we're talking about jazz here? ;)
 
Here are a couple of station IDs from the 1980s.

"1050 WHN, Mutual Radio, New York"

"WJIT 1480 in New York"

So I guess the answer is yes.
You can insert the owner name or dial position between calls and COL. Saying “Mutual” if not owned by thw web is not correct, I believe.
 
https://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-319240A1.html
AMFM Broadcasting Licenses, LLC ) File No. EB-FIELDWR-13-00006939
Licensee of Station KBIG-FM )
Facility ID # 6360 )
Los Angeles, CA ) NOV No. V201332900010
NOTICE OF VIOLATION
Released: February 27, 2013
That station apparently ID'd only by its frequency, with no call or city at all. Still, the rule cited does specify call "followed immediately" by the COL, with no room for jazzy improvisation. Or the memorable TOH ID I remember from WTBS's days as a 10-watt college FM at MIT: They had a soul request show with a smooth-talking DJ who would inform listeners that they were tuned to "WTBS, 88.1 on the FM side of your radio slide!"
 
Key words in the violation:

On January 23, 2013, in response to a complaint, an agent from the
Enforcement Bureau's Los Angeles Office monitored KBIG-FM's broadcast
transmission on 104.3 MHz.

In response to a complaint. If posters here feel this is an issue, they should file a complaint.
 
Key words in the violation:



In response to a complaint. If posters here feel this is an issue, they should file a complaint.
No. This is a really simple problem to solve, and you want to put the onus on the backs of listeners instead of the offenders. It's not the listeners who own the station, who have invested in the license, facilities, transmitter, etc. It's the licensee. It takes five seconds an hour to speak or play a legal ID, call letters + city of license. Maybe 10 seconds if the station has complicated ID, with a simulcast, an HD1 and a hyphenated COL. That's the length of an average fart. The requirement is once an hour, at the appropriate time. You can keep rationalizing this all you want, but if an owner is serious about protecting their investment, let them do what's required, in the way the rule dictates. Otherwise, sell the station or give it away to someone who will be a serious licensee, or return the license to the FCC and shutter the facility.

What's unclear about that?

I'd love to be the guy who gets assigned your tax return to audit.
 
No. This is a really simple problem to solve, and you want to put the onus on the backs of listeners instead of the offenders.

They're the ones who have the issue. Had they not received a complaint, the FCC would not have known.

Truthfully the listeners don't care either. It's mainly a handful of radio geeks.

if an owner is serious about protecting their investment, let them do what's required, in the way the

The investment is not at risk. No one has ever had their license revoked for a TOH ID. They will pay a nominal fine.

I'd love to be the guy who gets assigned your tax return to audit.

Congress keeps cutting the budget of the IRS too. It's being reported that they are so understaffed they can't get the basic work done.

 
By FCC Rules, if the station IDs at 10 past the hour, a natural break in programming in their opinion, then the FCC rule has not been broken, period. Listeners don't care and it seems all but a couple of folks here don't either. And the FCC wouldn't care. They do care if you don't include the elements of the legal ID. For example, if you say, Rock 104, Springfield as a legal ID, then, yes, the FCC has a problem. To the FCC IDing at :10 or :48 or :52 is about like 46 mph in a 45 mph speed zone.
 
By FCC Rules, if the station IDs at 10 past the hour, a natural break in programming in their opinion, then the FCC rule has not been broken, period. Listeners don't care and it seems all but a couple of folks here don't either. And the FCC wouldn't care. They do care if you don't include the elements of the legal ID. For example, if you say, Rock 104, Springfield as a legal ID, then, yes, the FCC has a problem. To the FCC IDing at :10 or :48 or :52 is about like 46 mph in a 45 mph speed zone.
It’s just stupid to even require a legal ID. Just let every station use FSK. DXers identify stations using the format and slogan. Why not just require stations to keep their format and slogan updated in the FCC database within a day of a format change?
 
IDing stations is not for DXers. I was told (and I can't vouch for any accuracy) that stations were required to do a legal ID with World War II and then it was on the hour and half hour.

Everybody will actually have to listen to the station for the legal ID because it could be in the breaks just before :15 and :45. For many stations it's really close to the top of the hour.

Why register anything with the FCC. We could drop call letters and go with FCC facility ID numbers 3 times a day at the same times translators must ID.
 
IDing stations is not for DXers. I was told (and I can't vouch for any accuracy) that stations were required to do a legal ID with World War II and then it was on the hour and half hour.

Everybody will actually have to listen to the station for the legal ID because it could be in the breaks just before :15 and :45. For many stations it's really close to the top of the hour.

Why register anything with the FCC. We could drop call letters and go with FCC facility ID numbers 3 times a day at the same times translators must ID.
The DXers are the ones who identify stations the most. And they don’t depend on the legal ID to add a station to their log.

Some stations simulcast the same programming on the same frequency, such as Revolution 93.5 in Miami. That’s heard on WBGF, WZFL, and W228BY. The legal ID contains all 3 stations. It’s hard to tell exactly which Revolution 93.5 you’re hearing, even if you do hear the legal ID.
 
I almost wish a medium or large size company would just quietly drop legal IDs from all their stations, just to see what happens. I bet you nothing would probably happen and only a handful of people would even notice.

Actually, iHeart is already breaking station identification rules by not IDing their HD1’s. The FCC rules state, “A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast. No other insertion between the station’s call letters and the community or communities specified in its license is permissible.”

There are plenty of examples of them not IDing HD1’s on TopHour.com. Here’s some from the DFW market:


I guess this is the New York board, so here’s a few from there:


See…iHeart isn’t following the rules to a T and nobody cares. Heck, few people have even noticed. In today’s world, Legal IDs don’t really serve a purpose, other than to a select few. I think the FCC realizes this, but hasn’t bothered with updating the rules. Just my thoughts.
 
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...Actually, iHeart is already breaking station identification rules by not IDing their HD1’s. The FCC rules state, “A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast. No other insertion between the station’s call letters and the community or communities specified in its license is permissible.” ...
... See…iHeart isn’t following the rules to a T and nobody cares. Heck, few people have even noticed. In today’s world, Legal IDs don’t really serve a purpose, other than to a select few. I think the FCC realizes this, but hasn’t bothered with updating the rules. Just my thoughts.
In the case of translators, IIRC, the legal ID can be "broadcast" using frequency-shift keying. (Correct me if I'm misremembering.) You may not be able to hear it, but it's there. Much like the hidden tones that the Nielsen encoder inserts into the musical programming so PPMs can ID a station. So isn't there an alternate way to do a non-audible legal ID of an HD stream? IIRC, it's legal to ID an HD via the text display on all HD-equipped radios, as long as it also meets the legal ID requirement (calls + COL, once an hour).
 
Much like the hidden tones that the Nielsen encoder inserts into the musical programming so PPMs can ID a station.
PPM coding is inserted into all audio, not just musical programming. The burst is about 4" long and just needs enough masking audio to be triggered.
 
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