AM's Lowering Power

[KeithE4]

KTAR 1020 in Phoenix has a shopping center around it.

Well, there is a reason why it's called Tower Plaza. IIRC, the towers preceded the mall by about 20 years. That was all farmland when KTAR built it in the late '30s.

Apparently there has been no interference or medical issues with 5000 watts blasting from the parking lot, with hundreds of people (or more) mingling around. Plus, there must not have been any signal overload issues with the equipment run by KPAZ-TV/21 when they were there prior to 1975.

 

[Mikey Radio]

And don't forget about the infamous 'Lumberyard 1440' KAZG Scottsdale, AZ with their stand-alone tower in the middle of...you guessed it, a lumberyard.

Paging @DrAkbar!

 

[radiofollower]

Those class IV stations on 1230, 1240, etc. are brutal at night. 1490 (the new WERE) does not even reach the whole city at night. But if you think this is bad, I recall when these stations were all 250 watts at night before the FCC alllowed 1KW fulltime. One local station's night signal was so bad that the GM couldn't hear it 7 miles from his house.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Those class IV stations on 1230, 1240, etc. are brutal at night. 1490 (the new WERE) does not even reach the whole city at night. But if you think this is bad, I recall when these stations were all 250 watts at night before the FCC alllowed 1KW fulltime. One local station's night signal was so bad that the GM couldn't hear it 7 miles from his house.

I recall that back in the Class IV 250 watt night signal times, reception went out around eight to ten miles. Past that the signal was rapidly swallowed up by the co-channel pileup, completely disappearing 13-15 miles out.

The later night increase to 1kw helped reception somewhat in the primary contour, but didn’t extend range, as all the other stations on the frequency had also raised power, adding to the interference floor.

 

[davideduardo]

Those class IV stations on 1230, 1240, etc. are brutal at night. 1490 (the new WERE) does not even reach the whole city at night. But if you think this is bad, I recall when these stations were all 250 watts at night before the FCC alllowed 1KW fulltime. One local station's night signal was so bad that the GM couldn't hear it 7 miles from his house.

My first job was at WJMO and WCUY (92.3) and the AM was located at Cedar and Lee in Cleveland Heights with the antenna on the roof of a Chevy dealer. When it changed from WSRS to WJMO, they found that most of the Black community could not hear it at night... so eventually it moved to Euclid Avenue a bit East of the arts district right along the New York Central tracks.

WJMO was 250 watts 24/7 when I started in 1959.

It did a lot better signal wise in the area we needed to serve. I still did some fill-in board op shifts on 'JMO for the Sunday foreign language shows, but mostly after the move I worked as a part-time on the FM, which was right across from Heights High were I went to class (sometimes).

 

[Mark Roberts]

I'm seeing stations drop below 250 watts days without an issue. In St. Louis, KXEN once was 50,000 watts directional days. Don't recall the night power and directional. Now KXEN is diplexed and 160 watts days and something like 14 watts nights all non-directional. And they have a translator or two.

KXEN had 500 watts at night before downgrading.

 

[Mark Roberts]

KFI in LA has warehouses on the land. KTNQ and KEIB in LA also do, with an interesting 10 meter above ground counterpoise system. KTAR 1020 in Phoenix has a shopping center around it.

When I wandered around Central America in 1963 visiting stations, the majority of those in Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras were on the rooftop of buildings, either short verticals or longwires.

1510 KSFN "Piedmont", CA (really, Oakland) has the entire four-tower antenna system on the roof of a warehouse in west Oakland.

1100 KFAX and 860 KTRB (diplexed) were granted a CP in 2021 to dismantle their present antenna system, and then reconstruct it on the roof of a warehouse that is to be built on the site. Most operating parameters would remain the same after the reconstruction. https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/d...tachment/03db4798-86d9-90ad-768a-d305a5b5a1fd

 

[Yabadabado1]

It did a lot better signal wise in the area we needed to serve. I still did some fill-in board op shifts on 'JMO for the Sunday foreign language shows, but mostly after the move I worked as a part-time on the FM, which was right across from Heights High were I went to class (sometimes).

Sort of an interesting question [at least to me]: How many stations in Cleveland/NE Ohio broadcast, at some point, foreign language programs? I know there was WXEN [Now 106.5 The Lake] in 60s/70s along with WZAK. Mostly blocks of foreign language, i.e. 2 hours of German, maybe one hour of Gaelic, an hour of Russian.] Were there any other ones?

 

[kwthom]

Imagine if all were granted translators with a permanency guarantee if they vacated the AM band.

Is there enough capacity (bandwidth) for those ~900 stations to be shoehorned into the FM broadcast band without a great deal of second-adjacent frequency headaches?

Granted, a percentage of them may already have operational translators.

No need to be pedantic and count 'em just for my benefit...

 

[davideduardo]

Granted, a percentage of them may already have operational translators.

A huge percentage of AMs already have translators. The problem is that a translator is not guaranteed permanent status.

 

[kwthom]

A huge percentage of AMs already have translators. The problem is that a translator is not guaranteed permanent status.

A discussion topic best for the National subforum, perhaps?

 

[radiofollower]

Sort of an interesting question [at least to me]: How many stations in Cleveland/NE Ohio broadcast, at some point, foreign language programs? I know there was WXEN [Now 106.5 The Lake] in 60s/70s along with WZAK. Mostly blocks of foreign language, i.e. 2 hours of German, maybe one hour of Gaelic, an hour of Russian.] Were there any other ones?

It is an interesting footnote to the fact that Cleveland was one of the first markets where FM stations began to achieve significant ratings. I don't know this for a fact, but I am willing to believe that because Cleveland had two, fulltime foreign language FM stations (WXEN and WZAK), FM radios were already in the homes of working class families, whereas in most markets FM radios were generally in affluent homes.

 

[skiwest]

Sort of an interesting question [at least to me]: How many stations in Cleveland/NE Ohio broadcast, at some point, foreign language programs? I know there was WXEN [Now 106.5 The Lake] in 60s/70s along with WZAK. Mostly blocks of foreign language, i.e. 2 hours of German, maybe one hour of Gaelic, an hour of Russian.] Were there any other ones?

After the demise of foreign language programming on WXEN and WZAK, there were just some blocks on WCPN, WHK and a few college stations, mostly on weekends. Tony Petkovsek moved his daily polka show to WELW, although it was not actually a foreign language program.

 

[johnbasalla]

Sort of an interesting question [at least to me]: How many stations in Cleveland/NE Ohio broadcast, at some point, foreign language programs? I know there was WXEN [Now 106.5 The Lake] in 60s/70s along with WZAK. Mostly blocks of foreign language, i.e. 2 hours of German, maybe one hour of Gaelic, an hour of Russian.] Were there any other ones?

Cleveland's first NPR station, WBOE 90.3 FM, aired ethnic / foreign language shows, mostly on the weekends. As an example:
I looked over original WBOE-FM Program Logs for Sunday August 14, 1977 and Saturday August 20, 1977.

SUNDAY: 7:00 p.m. - "German Program I"
7:30 p.m. - "German Program II"

9:00 P.M. - 10:00 p.m. "Russian Program"

SATURDAY: 10:45 - 11:30 a.m. "Polish Polkas"
11:30 - 12 noon "Serbian Program"
12 noon- 2:00 p.m. "Tony's Polka Village" (Tony Petkovsek)

4:00 p.m. - 5:00 p.m. "Hungarian Program I"
6:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m. "Hungarian Program II" ("All Things Considered" was in-between).
7:00 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. "Memories of Poland"
7:30 p.m. - 7:45 p.m. "Swedish Folk Music"
The Swedish program was one from Radio Sweden International who supplied a good number of radio programs as free, educational fair to radio stations. WBOE aired some of their other content as well. I don't remember the source of "Memories of Poland".

As I worked at the station, I recall during one of the summer's that a Foreign Language program (I think it was Hungarian) ran live during a weekday afternoon. If I dug around existing logs and original program guides enough, I could probably find out for sure. I was the Board Op a few times.

Additionally, during, at least, the summer of 1977, WBOE aired German, Italian and Japanese language lessons at 11:30 p.m. during some of the weeknights, all supplied by their transcription services.

 

[davideduardo]

A discussion topic best for the National subforum, perhaps?

No, just an observation that relates to the translator situation in Cleveland.

 

[davideduardo]

Cleveland's first NPR station, WBOE 90.3 FM, aired ethnic / foreign language shows, mostly on the weekends. As an example:

7:30 p.m. - 7:45 p.m. "Swedish Folk Music"
The Swedish program was one from Radio Sweden International who supplied a good number of radio programs as free, educational fair to radio stations. WBOE aired some of their other content as well. I don't remember the source of "Memories of Poland".

There must have been at least 12 Swedes in Cleveland at that time!

As I worked at the station, I recall during one of the summer's that a Foreign Language program (I think it was Hungarian) ran live during a weekday afternoon. If I dug around existing logs and original program guides enough, I could probably find out for sure. I was the Board Op a few times.

Much of this sounds like looking for cheap fill for unused time.

15 or so years before, I often board opped at either WCUY or WJMO on Sunday mornings. The big group's were Italian, Polish, Hungarian, German, Czechoslovakian, Yugoslav (mostly Serbian and Croatian). All of the shows had groups of participants and even family who stood in the lobby. All brought food; I brought Alka Seltzer.

The Hungarians convinced me that the essential ingredient to every dish was lard. They even use lard instead of butter for bread. I'd pretend I had eaten before the shift so I could wait for the Italians to arrive... they even saw how I liked their food and brought me plates of other things to take home. (My dad's office was just "across the street" from Little Italy so I grew up having Saturday walks in his workplace at Lake View Cemetery and then late lunch in an Italian restaurant where everybody knew him!)

Additionally, during, at least, the summer of 1977, WBOE aired German, Italian and Japanese language lessons at 11:30 p.m. during some of the weeknights, all supplied by their transcription services.

Can a station have a negative rating share?

 

[johnbasalla]

"Much of this sounds like looking for cheap fill for unused time".

On the commercial stations, the programmers would pay for the time, I believe. On WBOE they would not have to pay and have their program on a 50,000 watt signal to boot.

 

[radiofollower]

I found this interesting memory of A.W. Zebrowski, who did the Polish morning show from many years on WZAK when it was a foreign language station. It was written by his son. A.W. was extremely popular in the Polish community in those days, playing polkas and reading commercials for a multitude of local Polish businesses. I undertand that he was a bit large, mostlikely due to the dozens of cakes and pastries which his fans constantly brought to him!

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203776969304312&id=1821444777&set=a.1901355513212&source=57&refid=18&__tn__=EHH-R

 

[Rusty Muck]

Can a station have a negative rating share?

By all accounts, WBOE completely failed to register in the ratings despite having NPR basically fall into their laps.

It was why Brad Norris set up Cleveland Public Radio (which wound up winning the license for the current 90.3 after a lengthy battle with the Cleveland Public Library and is one half of the current Ideastream) and tried several times to buy WBOE from the Cleveland School District, only to be rebuffed every time. And given how badly strapped the schools were for money in 1976–78, their refusals look even worse in hindsight. It was mismanagement deluxe and absolutely tragic.

 

[Greg Strickland]

In the early days of radio AM band Local Channels were a rational and sensible plan for providing 24 hour broadcast service to small communities across the vast United States. It is challenging for a government agency to plan for growth because the public has a diverse opinion about it.

Today, lower power FM stations are the Local Channels, and the same administrative questions and differences of opinion happen.

I'll venture on message board thin ice and say humans are frequently not rational, logical and consistent. We say one thing and do another. There is no accounting for it, and sometimes a good plan does not "work". But that keeps it interesting