Lotus

[Kelly A]

Really... ok you don't get it obvisouly if you even have to ask.... next.

I think you're the one who doesn't get it.
Was in a meeting just today with some corporate folks who were looking at options for cutting FTE's by using AI. After our team had spent six months looking at workflows and potential timelines for creating AI models that would accomplish certain tasks currently done by humans, we presented the data that clearly showed the costs to develop, refine, and teach the AI models would cost +200% more and take at least five years than just having humans provide the work during that same amount of time. Since the industry is looking for AI to provide short-term savings, that pretty much scrapped the AI talk. At least for now.
Next...

 

[fybush]

I think you're the one who doesn't get it.
Was in a meeting just today with some corporate folks who were looking at options for cutting FTE's by using AI. After our team had spent six months looking at workflows and potential timelines for creating AI models that would accomplish certain tasks currently done by humans, we presented the data that clearly showed the costs to develop, refine, and teach the AI models would cost +200% more and take at least five years than just having humans provide the work during that same amount of time. Since the industry is looking for AI to provide short-term savings, that pretty much scrapped the AI talk. At least for now.
Next...

It's kind of like the hoopla that pops up every year or so about automated fast-food burger flippers.

Sounds great, until you start looking at the costs involved in actually maintaining the machines, at which point it's almost always cheaper and more reliable to keep the humans around for a while longer.

 

[Kelly A]

Sounds great, until you start looking at the costs involved in actually maintaining the machines, at which point it's almost always cheaper and more reliable to keep the humans around for a while longer.

Sure, and it's impossible to predict the future, especially when one looks at the original cost of the self-checkout machines in your local box/grocery store. Originally those machines cost almost $200K each, which was WAY more than some minimum wage-paid human. Those costs eventually came down. Likely purpose-built AI for particular tasks will come down, but the broadcast industry isn't large enough to justify some developers like Open AI, Alphabet, or Microsoft to create and train some specialized AI applications without broadcast having to fork out some serious development dollars. And we all know how frugal broadcast companies are.

 

[bossbill]

Jumping back on the WAZE/Maps wagon, I'm not understanding why one needs to look at their phone to use them. You know where you're going... and you know where you need to go. The only time you need to look at the phone when you plug in those two parameters. And it's a heckuva lot more current than waiting for "traffic on the 4's, or 5's or whatever. You know when there's a speed trap 1.4 miles ahead, and when to take an alternate route due to a 20 minute delay. I'm in the demos that should be listening to the radio waiting for the next report to come in for an area I'm not even near. I use my radio for the music, maybe even personality, and the war news at the top of the hour. My phone tells me in real time how to get there and keeps me updated on how long it will take. And I don't even care where it is as long as I can hear it.

On air traffic reports were all we had back "in the day", but that day is long gone. And in this ever-evolving radio business, stations that keep up with the changes will do better than those that don't.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Sure, and it's impossible to predict the future, especially when one looks at the original cost of the self-checkout machines in your local box/grocery store. Originally those machines cost almost $200K each, which was WAY more than some minimum wage-paid human. Those costs eventually came down.

That said, the track record on self-checkout is mixed. There's evidence that "shrinkage", i.e. theft, increases. Wal-Mart has been taking them out from some locations, to name one example. They won't go away altogether but the enthusiasm for them seems to have been dampened.

 

[TheBigA]

And it's a heckuva lot more current than waiting for "traffic on the 4's, or 5's or whatever.

Depending on whose traffic service you use, some utilize the same technology as WAZE or Google Maps to spot the tie-ups.

They also allow you to embed their maps on your website or station app so YOU are the source, not some outside app.

Radio stations are not all focused on their air signal. Some are actually living in the present and providing digital information.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Jumping back on the WAZE/Maps wagon, I'm not understanding why one needs to look at their phone to use them. You know where you're going... and you know where you need to go. The only time you need to look at the phone when you plug in those two parameters.

Which is fine until the stupid thing pops up an ad asking you if you want to go through some drive-through or another. The pop-up does go away eventually, but it complicates the whole user experience. The Waze UI is not the best; then again, the touch-screen systems in cars suck at this too. I'm glad I have an Audi from the last model year where they didn't use touchscreens - I can manage the dedicated controls by touch and not have to move my gaze from the windshield to the "infotainment system". Try managing a touchscreen, whether on a nav system or on Waze, without looking at it.

On air traffic reports were all we had back "in the day", but that day is long gone.

You're assuming that the apps are perfect. They are far from it.

 

[boombox4]

AI is just another tech. And, just like the robotics used in factories to replace actual people, every tech has its learning curve, and its 'training' curve.

As for self-checkout, the AI-analyzed surveillance cameras are pretty effective at a couple of the stores I go to, where the AI monitoring the surveillance camera overhead can detect possible theft attempt. And the security checkers at the door also are another measure to lower shrinkage.

There's no turning back tech where there either is a dollar to be made, or a dollar to be saved.

As for Waze, etc., sure, they can and will replace radio traffic reports, just as Spotify, Apple music, Amazon music, and Pandora replace radio for musical entertainment; internet podcasts replace radio for talk, and internet sourced news apps replace radio for news. Oh yeah, don't forget the weather apps (instantly delivered to your smartphone screen) replace radio when it comes to weather reports.

What does that leave? Commercials?

 

[Mikey Radio]

The argument for/against self-checkouts is multi-faceted. Lots of blue collar and older folks especially seem to believe they're displacing and taking away jobs that should be given to people. That said, at the grocery, hardware and big box stores where I live, the lines for the self-checkouts tend to be longer, but are also much more efficient in general and move much faster than the checkout lines manned by human cashiers. While I have no idea how they impact shrinkage and would hope that most people are honest, I personally prefer self-checkout. It's not that I don't appreciate human interaction, but if I only have a few items, I find it's much faster to grab my stuff from my basket, swipe it across the scanner and into the bag and a quick swipe of my credit card and I'm on my way, while the lines with human cashiers are much slower and have staff who are still talking to the customers or waiting on baggers, etc. They also have a smaller physical footprint, with 6 self-checkout machines taking up the same footprint as 2 traditional checkout lines at the grocer I patronize.

 

[Speed Racer 1]

They call that RDS (Radio Data Service), but it's voluntary. Many stations have current songs or programming being aired, what's coming up next, and even information about commercials or promos. There's no way for the radio to send that information somewhere for tabulation.

PPM devices actually listens in the open air environment around the participating panelist for audio that has an encoded 'watermark' for a particular station, stream, or TV audio.

What about people who listen on headphones? The PPM seems extremely narrow in scope to be honest. Why isn't there a better more obvious way? No need to answer that as it is rhetorical in general. I've never met anyone who had a PPM meter. No one I know has ever met anyone either that wore one. But like I said, another topic for another day. I appreciate the feedback and I'll leave it alone now!

 

[Kelly A]

You're assuming that the apps are perfect. They are far from it.

And ten seconds of a generalized report about some highway/roadway heard on the radio are perfect?

 

[bossbill]

And ten seconds of a generalized report about some highway/roadway heard on the radio are perfect?

And that's my point. As I'm on the way to I-90 headed east, the radio station has no way of telling me about that one stalled car at milepost xxx that's causing a 45 minute slowdown on my specific route. My cell phone will provide specific information, and since I'm not on Aurora North, or I-5 just before the Mercer off-ramp, the radio station report is irrelevant to me.

 

[Kelly A]

What about people who listen on headphones?

One could argue that the number of consumers listening to the radio via headphones isn't enough in number to be worth counting. Some on this site may still rely on their Sony Walkman(tm) for entertainment, but that count is so tiny, it isn't worth mentioning. Also, participating panelists know the device they're carrying is listening for the purpose of data collection. If a panelist frequently leaves their PPM at home in a drawer or intentionally doesn't allow for the collection of data, they will be removed as a panelist.

The PPM seems extremely narrow in scope to be honest. Why isn't there a better more obvious way?

Nielsen, and before that Arbitron, needed something that could hear what the panelist was listening to, verses their recollection hastily filled out on a diary. To get as valid active data as possible, they needed to remove the human factor because it was unreliable.

No need to answer that as it is rhetorical in general. I've never met anyone who had a PPM meter. No one I know has ever met anyone either that wore one. But like I said, another topic for another day. I appreciate the feedback and I'll leave it alone now!

There's always been the argument that the number of PPM panelists during a survey period simply isn't a large enough sample. David could explain the methodology better than I, but in simple terms; the panelists who volunteer during a survey have to fall within certain requirements spread within the geographic zones including counties.

 

[TheBigA]

And ten seconds of a generalized report about some highway/roadway heard on the radio are perfect?

Which is why the radio stations have a multi-platform approach to traffic reports. WTOP has an embed Google map:

Washington DC Area Traffic - WTOP News

Know before you go! See the latest traffic accidents & incidents in the Washington, DC region to help plan your commute.

wtop.com

WINS in NYC has a deal with WAYZ, and also has a specific twitter site:

Traffic | 1010 WINS

Traffic | 1010 WINS

www.audacy.com

Unless a radio station devotes 100% of its on-air time to traffic, it can't be as good as a map that details your specific location. What we're talking about is push vs. pull media. You can get more information, but you have to take the time and effort to do the work. Both radio stations and the public have access to the same information. The question is how much work does the public want to do to get it.

 

[TheBigA]

One could argue that the number of consumers listening to the radio via headphones isn't enough in number to be worth counting. Some on this site may still rely on their Sony Walkman(tm) for entertainment, but that count is so tiny, it isn't worth mentioning.

People who use their phones for listening use earpods or headphones. Not just 20th century Walkmen. They're not holding their phones up to their heads. Although some remote via bluetooth to a speaker. They would get counted by PPM.

 

[fordranger797]

The argument for/against self-checkouts is multi-faceted. Lots of blue collar and older folks especially seem to believe they're displacing and taking away jobs that should be given to people. That said, at the grocery, hardware and big box stores where I live, the lines for the self-checkouts tend to be longer, but are also much more efficient in general and move much faster than the checkout lines manned by human cashiers. While I have no idea how they impact shrinkage and would hope that most people are honest, I personally prefer self-checkout. It's not that I don't appreciate human interaction, but if I only have a few items, I find it's much faster to grab my stuff from my basket, swipe it across the scanner and into the bag and a quick swipe of my credit card and I'm on my way, while the lines with human cashiers are much slower and have staff who are still talking to the customers or waiting on baggers, etc. They also have a smaller physical footprint, with 6 self-checkout machines taking up the same footprint as 2 traditional checkout lines at the grocer I patronize.

I guess I’m extra stubborn. When I go to a store, I always try to use the cashier line (unless it will cause a significant delay by doing so). I figure that if I have to pay this much for groceries already, I shouldn’t have to scan it all and bag it myself.

 

[Kelly A]

People who use their phones for listening use earpods or headphones. Not just 20th century Walkmen. They're not holding their phones up to their heads. Although some remote via bluetooth to a speaker. They would get counted by PPM.

They were talking about those who listen to the radio in particular.

 

[TheBigA]

They were talking about those who listen to the radio in particular.

Nobody listens to radio by holding their phone up to their ears. It's all earbuds. I see them each week at football games, watching the game but listening to the local play by play through their Apple earbuds. None of that gets counted by PPM. I can give you more examples. The numbers on Nielsen don't reflect a lot of digital listening. But radio stations get the data from their providers and know it's big.

 

[bobdavcav]

Which is why the radio stations have a multi-platform approach to traffic reports. WTOP has an embed Google map:

Washington DC Area Traffic - WTOP News

Know before you go! See the latest traffic accidents & incidents in the Washington, DC region to help plan your commute.

wtop.com

WINS in NYC has a deal with WAYZ, and also has a specific twitter site:

Traffic | 1010 WINS

Traffic | 1010 WINS

www.audacy.com

Unless a radio station devotes 100% of its on-air time to traffic, it can't be as good as a map that details your specific location. What we're talking about is push vs. pull media. You can get more information, but you have to take the time and effort to do the work. Both radio stations and the public have access to the same information. The question is how much work does the public want to do to get it.

This is the best wording I've seen to describe this. I really dislike the fact that stations are making listeners do the work more and more rather than providing the information. My biggest beef about this is when it comes to school closings and delays during severe weather. It used to be that many stations in a market would give a complete list of school closures twice an hour. Now, if you're lucky, it's the news station that gives updates on the biggest districts in the area, and directs people to the station's website for a complete list. I personally build just enough time into my morning schedule to get ready, so don't have time to check my email or a station's website to see whether or not I actually need to be anywhere. That being said, it's only been in the last few years that school districts have had automated communication services, so I'm used to hearing that information on the radio.

 

[TheBigA]

I really dislike the fact that stations are making listeners do the work more and more rather than providing the information.

Nobody is "making listeners do the work." The point is it's available. You want more information, it's there.

There simply isn't enough time to give all the school closings or run through all the traffic jams.