Lotus

[davideduardo]

Do you speak Chinese? All the audio manufacturers are in China. This would have to be negotiated by the federal govt. Not very likely.

And, as much as possible, they want the same radio design to work in Paraguay, the Philippines, Papua News Guinea, Pakistan, and Poland as well as Portland and Pittsburgh.

Then it would have to get the approval of the advertisers. Remember radio doesn't do Nielsen for itself. It does this because the advertisers insist. They drive the truck, not radio.

Many think that because radio pays for the ratings, they buy them because they love them. We buy ratings because our agency accounts and big direct accounts require ratings to establish delivery and justify pricing.

Back about 50 years ago, in what was a top 20 market, the ratings company ceased operating. For 3 years there were no ratings. But the market had over 100 ad agencies and, with no audience data, they simply said, "we'll pay $20 a spot; take it or leave it." (of $15 or $12 or less). Radio revenue in the market fell by about 50%. I managed to get Pulse into the market, and within a year, revenue was up by more than 120% overall.

Ratings, in a sense, are "legal collusion". All the major stations in a market agree to buy ratings from one company, and all their sellers present the same data to clients that use quantitative analysis. Ad buyers have a uniform measurement to establish pricing. Station adjust rates to how many listeners or share points they get. Pricing is reinforced and measurable.

 

[TheBigA]

The visual is supplementary, such as in-car displays of anything from song data to album covers. It is not a product of itself.

Some do that, but some do more. Radio isn't all handling digital the same. Once again, look at iHeart and Townsquare.

If you have a digital streaming simulcast of your AM or FM, you know the usage data as that is the basis for the streaming digital artist/label royalties.

Yes I know, we discussed that the usage isn't matching the streaming ratings in Nielsen. My comment was that when radio companies list digital in their earnings, it encompasses a lot of things, depending on the company. Streaming is part of it. The companies know the breakouts, but don't report them.

We're saying the same thing in different ways. Bottom line: digital is important, and Lotus needs to improve its digital footprint if it wants to compete in the high technology market of Seattle.

 

[davideduardo]

Some do that, but some do more. Radio isn't all handling digital the same. Once again, look at iHeart and Townsquare.

But Townsquare's digital product is not streaming of their stations. It is web based content services provided to local accounts as part of an overall marketing service, not an enhancement of radio broadcasting.

On LinkedIn, Townsquare leaves radio to last in its description of services:

Townsquare is a community-focused digital media, digital marketing solutions, and radio company focused outside the Top 50 markets in the U.S. Our assets include Townsquare Interactive, a digital marketing services subscription business providing websites, search engine optimization, social platforms, and online reputation management for approximately 21,900 SMBs; Townsquare IGNITE, a proprietary digital programmatic advertising technology with an in-house demand and data management platform; and Townsquare Media, our portfolio of 322 local terrestrial radio stations in 67 cities with corresponding local news and entertainment websites and apps including legendary brands such as WYRK.com, WJON.com, and NJ101.5.com, along with a network of national music brands including XXLmag.com, TasteofCountry.com, UltimateClassicRock.com, and Loudwire.com.

 

[TheBigA]

But Townsquare's digital product is not streaming of their stations.

I didn't say it was. Read what I wrote.

 

[Speed Racer 1]

Do you speak Chinese? All the audio manufacturers are in China. This would have to be negotiated by the federal govt. Not very likely.

Then it would have to get the approval of the advertisers. Remember radio doesn't do Nielsen for itself. It does this because the advertisers insist. They drive the truck, not radio.

It is more than adequate for the needs of the users of ratings, who are ad agencies. When the sample is increased, the precision of the results is not significantly enhanced; they have tried samples that are much larger and there is no real difference except with the occasional very small station... and those stations don't buy ratings and agencies don't buy them anyway.

In any case, that is 4,000 persons every day of the year. In the diary system, there might have been over twice the diaries, but only abut 600 in any given day or week as the "panel" turned over every 7 days. Now, we have thousands of daily panelists every day, enough to give accurate ratings right down to the daypart for one show on one day.

In the PPM markets from 40 to 50 in rank, the panel is 900 to 1000 persons. Still, quite enough for nearly all markets to get MRC certification.

We are talking about Nielsen. What do you mean by "extrapolated"? That is not a term I have heard used in ratings services.

But then you would not get age, gender, ethnicity, language dominance, income, education data. Just the usage of the device. That is not what advertisers want. Again, the purpose of ratings is to support pricing and ad buying by agencies and big direct accounts.

Ad agencies, via the Media Ratings Council, believe the system is accurate.

Home | MRC

Media Rating Council (MRC) is a not-for-profit industry self-regulatory body, established in 1963 at the request of US Congress, that audits and accredits measurement services.

mediaratingcouncil.org

In fact, it was the MRC and its members who pushed for the PPM back in the 90's. There were agency "big shots" in every meeting on the early PPM development back around 2001-2002 when it started on air testing in Philly. I can say that because I was at those meetings, too, as one of a small group of radio group representatives.

That is why this kind of dialog is interesting and informative.

 

[Speed Racer 1]

Do you speak Chinese? All the audio manufacturers are in China. This would have to be negotiated by the federal govt. Not very likely.

Then it would have to get the approval of the advertisers. Remember radio doesn't do Nielsen for itself. It does this because the advertisers insist. They drive the truck, not radio.

 

[Kelly A]

Bottom line: digital is important, and Lotus needs to improve its digital footprint if it wants to compete in the high technology market of Seattle.

I agree, but it seems like some groups like Lotus are resisting that trend. Probably because it takes additional resources to move the needle. Likely it's the uncertainty of success that is at the root of the resistance.

 

[RadioRon]

Granted, Lotus and other groups don’t have the greatest websites, but that’s not where the money is in digital anymore. The money is being made well beyond the typical banner ad. Radio groups are deep into selling video ads via connected devices (streaming TV), as well as other highly targeted digital platforms (Facebook, Instagram, etc). The days of just selling radio spots and/or only your station website have long passed. In fact, some advertisers have moved out of spot and into digital….which is being handled by their friendly radio rep. While broadcast revenues continue to tumble, digital continues to grow.

 

[Kelly A]

Granted, Lotus and other groups don’t have the greatest websites, but that’s not where the money is in digital anymore. The money is being made well beyond the typical banner ad. Radio groups are deep into selling video ads via connected devices (streaming TV), as well as other highly targeted digital platforms (Facebook, Instagram, etc). The days of just selling radio spots and/or only your station website have long passed. In fact, some advertisers have moved out of spot and into digital….which is being handled by their friendly radio rep. While broadcast revenues continue to tumble, digital continues to grow.

Whereas I agree with this sentiment, I don't think having a 'digital business strategy' includes innocuous websites with banner ads.
We're talking about the need for an actual digital strategy like; unique streaming content, events/event promotion, and other unique content that brings in visitors. One needs to look no further for examples to Townsquare and iHeart.

 

[davideduardo]

We're talking about the need for an actual digital strategy like; unique streaming content, events/event promotion, and other unique content that brings in visitors. One needs to look no further for examples to Townsquare and iHeart.

iHeart is trying to develop a model that is profitable for major markets and group sales. Townsquare has already created one for smaller market direct accounts and local advertisers.

 

[Kelly A]

Just returned from the Seattle area and did some critical listening to stations regularly discussed here. In the case of KPLZ, and couple things stood out to me as issues:
1. This is going to sound weird, and I don't mean to sound sexist, but folks that have seen audience research will understand what I'm saying here: They're playing too many back to back female artists. At one point, I heard five back to back female artist songs in a row. It's pretty clear they're targeting a female audience, but you don't do that by flooding your listeners with female voices. In the past the rule has always been no more than two of the same sex artist back to back.
2. No knock on Curt and Jen, but the AM show doesn't stand out as being special. It would be a good PM drive show, but lacks the sizzle and humor for AM drive.
3. The station audio isn't terrible, but they're implementing the 'bowl' EQ curve; boost on the bottom end, I'm guessing around 160Hz, and another boost on the upper end around 6kHz. I'd be careful about that much high end boost that could cause fatigue with a female audience.

 

[TheBigA]

They're playing too many back to back female artists.

The country format also targets females, and they've found that playing too many female artists, especially back to back is not good for the demo. P1s love their hunky men. There's a famous study done by a country consultant that compared playing women to tomatoes in a salad. That led to tomatogate!

Tomatogate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kelly A]

As long as I'm focused on Lotus; spent some off and on time checking out KNWS AM/FM: From a programming standpoint, at least Tuesday, Friday and Saturday; each time I tuned in KNWS, they were in some sort of ABC or long form prerecorded packages. While KIRO was doing anchored news and limited traffic reports on Friday, KNWS had some long winded ABC feature about barbecue around the country. Every other time I tuned in KNWS, nothing news related what happening. Nevermind that reports of the first release of hostages in Gaza, BBQ is the word.
Regarding the audio, the FM just sounds wimpy. Audio lacks any punch, sounding weak not authorative. The whole station comes off as mailing it in.

 

[TheBigA]

Nevermind that reports of the first release of hostages in Gaza, BBQ is the word.

My take on the hostage story is that unless there's a local angle, leave it for TOH news. Was there actual local news in Seattle that was missed? KUOW likely spent half of its time on hostages. If that's the story you want, they'd be my first choice. Who had the best parade coverage?

ABC News Radio has one of the best prep services in the country. A lot of their stories and features don't get heard in major markets. So this exposure in Seattle is great for ABC. CBS News Radio is limited and a lot drier.

 

[Kelly A]

ABC News Radio has one of the best prep services in the country. A lot of their stories and features don't get heard in major markets. So this exposure in Seattle is great for ABC. CBS News Radio is limited and a lot drier.

Longform features about barbecue the day after Thanksgiving?

 

[TheBigA]

Longform features about barbecue the day after Thanksgiving?

As long as it's not about barbeque turkey. Which I've had, BTW.

I'm sure ABC News had great feature reporting about Black Friday in Manhattan too. The NY view of the world.

 

[Kelly A]

As long as it's not about barbeque turkey. Which I've had, BTW.

I'm sure ABC News had great feature reporting about Black Friday in Manhattan too. The NY view of the world.

In my example by comparison; during the same time, KIRO had a live (appearing) anchor who did among other news stories, did a story on an invasive species of European 'green crab' that was devastating the food supplies of native dungeness crabs in Northwest and Alaskan waters. Which story has more relevance to the area? A network created feature talking about the best barbecue from around the country, or a story relevent to the Northwest seafood industry? I submit in this particular example; KNWS mailed it in on the cheap.

 

[TheBigA]

I submit in this particular example; KNWS mailed it in on the cheap.

What do you expect? Live & local news 24/7 with a dozen highly paid reporters? Those days are over.

 

[Kelly A]

What do you expect? Live & local news 24/7 with a dozen highly paid reporters? Those days are over.

I'd expect to at least try to be on par with the competition. You don't need twelve reporters to have an anchor scheduled on a Friday morning reading stories relevant to the area which you broadcast. Otherwise Lotus may as well just turn AM-1000 into just another paid-programming station.

 

[TheBigA]

I'd expect to at least try to be on par with the competition.

It depends. I'd suggest they're now closer in comparison to KUOW than KIRO.