Seems Northeastern Pannsylvania, a bit more than the rest of the US is giving up on AM. It started out with WARM (well, it really started out with WSCR ) but rather than fix the station ,technically and programming wise, lets take some of the towers down, drop the power so it only covers the city of license, and let it die slowly. There are a lot of very successful AM stations still on the air,with big audiences and making good money but they know how, running real radio, with live personalities, no satellite crap, no voice tracking, just real people on the air talking to the listeners. The problem is most owners don't want to spend the money to hire people. WARM, the 1460 in Tunkhannock( WEMR at one time), WPPA, all have dumped towers and power to save a buck rather than work at making the station go. Forget the FM translator, forget the internet and the stream. Deal with the AM station as if it were 1960 and watch it work. I have seen several instances in the last few years where dead AM's have been brought back to life so don't say AM is dead. Its only dead where mismanagement is killing it by poor programming, ignorance and poor technical operation. There is a 1kw AM about 70 miles from my home, it is live 24 hours a day with local talk. The group that operates it has 4 100kw FM's and another AM in the same market, all studios in the same building. The other AM is satellite sports. The FM's are 4 separate music formats. The live AM outbills any 2 of the big FM's. The AM is a 2 tower DA and the owners have been offered three quarters of a million for the land where the towers sit. They turned down the offer even though they could diplex into the other AM tower or use one of the FM towers because they don't want to mess with success.
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WPPA ,another dying Indian
- Thread starter oldNeParadioguy
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AM sounds "bad" in comparisons. Most AMs don't cover as well as even Class A FMs in their market. AM is subject to the ever-increasing noise on the band caused by modern electronics.
In some small, unrated markets an AM may still be viable. And a few big signals in larger markets also make money. The rest depend on FM translators, paid religion or paid ethnic or political shows to survive.
No matter what you put on AM, folks under 60 will not listen except, maybe, for some home team play by play. Otherwise, the band is dead. Canada knows this, and has been helping private owner move to FM for the last decade or so. Mexico knows this, and over 75% of all AMs moved to FM and most of the remaining AMs are predominantly rural services in indigenous languages. Europe, as a whole, knows this and some nations now have no AM and others are reducing the number of stations. And so on world-wide.
If you read up on the actual history of WARM, you'd know it actually went dark and was off the air for a time about 15 years ago and again 10 years ago due to equipment issues and because money was a major concern. Many older AM stations choose to reduce power because 1) AM transmission facilities, especially those with multiple towers can be very expensive to operate, but also 2) It may make sense to reduce power and concentrate their signal primarily to the area where their listeners and advertisers are located.
Actually, the reality is that the many FM signals are also satellite-fed and/or computer automated at least most of the day, especially in smaller markets like Wilkes-Barre / Scranton, PA where WARM (and I'm guessing you) is located. Your statement that "most owners don't want to spend the money to hire people" is patently false. Rather, for many stations, especially in middle-sized and smaller markets, its the only way they can survive. There's lots of other competition for the ad monies including forms of media outside terrestrial radio, and fewer companies buying ads on smaller-market AM stations pushing out 1,800 watts daytime airing a classic country format like WARM.
Again, likely not true. If you believe it is, please provide proof of their financial situation including ad revenues and expenditures. Contrary to the tone of your post, most owners don't want to do things like dump live on-air staff in favor of automated programming and they don't celebrate the thought of reducing power - they do it to survive and keep their signals on the air.
It appears you're new to the Radio Discussions website and this is one of your first posts. Welcome. That said, your thought process here is from a different time and era. The 1960s that you mention were vastly different in many regards. What worked then will not work in 2024. The broadcasting business even 10 or 15 years ago was quite different vs. today. For one thing, far fewer companies are advertising on terrestrial radio, and those that do aren't spending as much. The AM band which is far inferior in many ways to FM is nearly dead. AMs that run FM translators often give the frequency of their FM translator first when giving their calls or positioning, because that's where listeners are tuning in. Many companies, large and small, see streaming as the future. They just need to do a better job at times of monetizing it.
Please give specific instances, including call letters, if this is actually true.
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And the biggest factor: Radio as a total industry is off by between 60% and 70% in its revenues, inflation adjusted, since 2004. Expenses are up around 25% to 30% based on a very low calculation of inflation in those 20 years.
Much less income, higher expenses, more new media competition. The result is easy to predict.
You can become a millionaire with an AM station with no FM translator and no streaming…if you start out with $2 million.
Well, this sure stirred up a lot of controversy. I worked for WARM and know a lot about it and its demise. First, the FM minds at corporate wouldnt spend any, ANY money on it. It was stuck with its night time pattern for years which sucked. We had all of the engineering worked out to fix that and reinstate the daytime pattern. Larry Wilson of Citadel agreed to spend the approximately $50,000 to fix it. When Farid Sulemonn came into power he immediately pulled the $50k back and said we aren't spending any money on AM. It at that time, under Rob Neyhard was playing music and was coming up nicely in the ratings.
Don't tell me kids dont listen to AM either. Kids dont listen to AM or FM however, there is an AM station near me that runs a show for the high school kids 7pm to 10pm, several kids do the jocking. There are 6 high power FM's in the market and the kids all listen to the little AM. They have more advertisers than they can handle. People will listen to anything if they want to hear it. Audio quality ,except for many radio people matters not. People have no idea when they are hearing stereo, audiophiles are for the most part gone. If people think satellite radio and most internet audio is good, AM is perfectly acceptable. You speak of noise on AM. Well, reducing your power from 5kw to 1kw certainly doesnt help with the noise situation when there is that much RF less on the receive antenna with the same ambient noise level.
And finally, no you wont become a millionaire with an AM station. It's not the AM's though that made Audacy, I Heart, Cumulus all file bankruptcy, radio is not a money making proposition any more but if you do it right, personality and local live you can make a comfortable living. How many of the groups are voice tracked most of the day, thats the downfall. If Bob Neilson was still at WNAK I would bet it would still be in the top 10.
Don't tell me kids dont listen to AM either. Kids dont listen to AM or FM however, there is an AM station near me that runs a show for the high school kids 7pm to 10pm, several kids do the jocking. There are 6 high power FM's in the market and the kids all listen to the little AM. They have more advertisers than they can handle. People will listen to anything if they want to hear it. Audio quality ,except for many radio people matters not. People have no idea when they are hearing stereo, audiophiles are for the most part gone. If people think satellite radio and most internet audio is good, AM is perfectly acceptable. You speak of noise on AM. Well, reducing your power from 5kw to 1kw certainly doesnt help with the noise situation when there is that much RF less on the receive antenna with the same ambient noise level.
And finally, no you wont become a millionaire with an AM station. It's not the AM's though that made Audacy, I Heart, Cumulus all file bankruptcy, radio is not a money making proposition any more but if you do it right, personality and local live you can make a comfortable living. How many of the groups are voice tracked most of the day, thats the downfall. If Bob Neilson was still at WNAK I would bet it would still be in the top 10.
The problem is that, one, inflation adjusted radio billings are off by about 70% overall since 20 years ago. And, second, the noise levels on AM from today’s wall warts and LED bulbs and the like have reduced AM usable coverage by about half, with very few stations able to cover a big enough area to be viable.
I know a station that is voice tracked, is #1, exceeding the maximum ads per hours the station desires on a regular basis after a rate increase. And those that voice track talk about things that connect with the community. This is an AM with translator. And yes, most are listening on FM or the app. Voice tracking can be just as effective as live. That station is local and you'd be hard pressed to say it's not live. Could they staff 24/7...no way...the ad dollars of the 1970s and 1980s are not there anymore.
Just a traveler's note .... I was in the Pottsville Weis Supermarket a week ago. Across the highway of Route 61, all five of WPPA's towers were still there.
Dunno if they're gone omni yet 24/7. A Radio-Locator issued CP says they've planned to. They've been simulcasting for months on a 105.9 translator that looks to be off one of the five towers.
As long as they're owned by huge T-102's hierarchy, and as long as the county doesn't actually get rated, they can take their own sweet holiday deciding which one of the five-on-a-die towers to use for omni -- if they do insist on keeping 1360 operating. As well, the stations cover what amounts to a decent-sized micropolitan market and can go with the revenue flow even more smoothly than local moms-and-pops in smaller places.
I have to remember to check WPPA 1360 on the car radio later, near where I'm staying in Port Carbon. That's due east of WPPA's sticks. If they come in clear through there, they're omni. If they're getting cuisinarted by Hartford and Cincinnati, they're still pulling in the old nighttime 500 watt signal east and west.
Dunno if they're gone omni yet 24/7. A Radio-Locator issued CP says they've planned to. They've been simulcasting for months on a 105.9 translator that looks to be off one of the five towers.
As long as they're owned by huge T-102's hierarchy, and as long as the county doesn't actually get rated, they can take their own sweet holiday deciding which one of the five-on-a-die towers to use for omni -- if they do insist on keeping 1360 operating. As well, the stations cover what amounts to a decent-sized micropolitan market and can go with the revenue flow even more smoothly than local moms-and-pops in smaller places.
I have to remember to check WPPA 1360 on the car radio later, near where I'm staying in Port Carbon. That's due east of WPPA's sticks. If they come in clear through there, they're omni. If they're getting cuisinarted by Hartford and Cincinnati, they're still pulling in the old nighttime 500 watt signal east and west.
For future posts, may I suggest paragraphs and a general run through to edit it down before hitting the "Post" button? Radio Discussions also have red underlines when you misspell something. So you should correct those too.
There are some interesting points here. But people are lazy. If they see ten lines with no break, it's like trying to eat an elephant. Paragraphs make it more digestible. You have put the effort in. But add another minute or two to edit. Some readers will, in a split second, go to another post if that's easier to read.
i have no idea why anyone would listen to AM for music. The sound quality is pure garbage. WPPA has an FM Translator on 105.9 that sounds fantastic and has a better coverage are with very low power, in crystal clear stereo. They play a lot of good Classic Rock and Oldies sometimes. My car radio doesnt pick up a single AM station but can pick up FM from nearly 100 miles away. Modern interference.
If you aren't picking up any AM stations, there must be something wrong with your car radio. It could be that the antenna became disconnected and it also affects weak FM signals.
My FM is fine, its an aftermarket Pioneer. I have no use for AM radio anyway really. Most aftermarket radios have less than desirable tuners in them to begin with. I put up a post awhile back asking about models with good tuners but had no hits on it.
@ Semochie :
I drove my supervisor's Dodge Caravan (dunno it's year ... 1993?) around Pottsville once. He was a Stern fan and otherwise had no use for AM. One reason was probably when I told him the AM section of the digital car radio was jumping automatically every 9kHz instead of 10.
The real DXers here -- I only played one on that TV show 'The FCC' -- can say which European frequencies coincide with the American ones for full fidelity. There can't mathematically be that many. And in Metro Pottsville there aren't many AM stations that come in well in the first place.
I drove my supervisor's Dodge Caravan (dunno it's year ... 1993?) around Pottsville once. He was a Stern fan and otherwise had no use for AM. One reason was probably when I told him the AM section of the digital car radio was jumping automatically every 9kHz instead of 10.
The real DXers here -- I only played one on that TV show 'The FCC' -- can say which European frequencies coincide with the American ones for full fidelity. There can't mathematically be that many. And in Metro Pottsville there aren't many AM stations that come in well in the first place.
@GSpsu
Most likely, that lack of a coverage contour means WPPA is now operating omni.
That site doesn't provide omni patterns; they'd be nothing but meaningless Euclidean circles on vacant compass backgrounds, anyway. As applied from another past, coarse reference, 'You've seen one; you've seen them all'.
For someone who earlier asked about WPPA's old 5000/500 U4 patterns: I can't locate the GIF pictures of them I saved off Radio-Locator at present; those are on some dusty thumb-drive in a cluttered collection of other dusty thumb drives.
What I can say is that WPPA's daytime pattern was a loosely E-W one, no tightly cinched nulls, with maybe 2/3's of its emphasis aimed west but quite a decent signal E, N and S. They covered the geographically cockeyed Schuylkill County very well in the day.
Ah! Found it. From the entertaining archives of Radio-Locator:
When they dropped to 500 watts at night they also throttled it in, away from each Cincinnati and Hartford, and sent the bulk of it south with only a wee back-lobe north (the R-L portrayal had them covering us, 7 miles north, within their red main signal, and yes, R-L is there for 'entertainment purposes', but don't make me laugh ..... WPPA used to get its ohms handed to them and were often third on the channel at night.
I haven't done any daytime driving of consequence in months, but I'm @$$uming, if WPPA is now 3000 watts omni in the day, that WEEU 830 Reading is now the loudest AMer covering a good deal of Schuylkill County, Their relocated towers are closer to Pottsville than they are to Reading!
Most likely, that lack of a coverage contour means WPPA is now operating omni.
That site doesn't provide omni patterns; they'd be nothing but meaningless Euclidean circles on vacant compass backgrounds, anyway. As applied from another past, coarse reference, 'You've seen one; you've seen them all'.
For someone who earlier asked about WPPA's old 5000/500 U4 patterns: I can't locate the GIF pictures of them I saved off Radio-Locator at present; those are on some dusty thumb-drive in a cluttered collection of other dusty thumb drives.
What I can say is that WPPA's daytime pattern was a loosely E-W one, no tightly cinched nulls, with maybe 2/3's of its emphasis aimed west but quite a decent signal E, N and S. They covered the geographically cockeyed Schuylkill County very well in the day.
Ah! Found it. From the entertaining archives of Radio-Locator:
When they dropped to 500 watts at night they also throttled it in, away from each Cincinnati and Hartford, and sent the bulk of it south with only a wee back-lobe north (the R-L portrayal had them covering us, 7 miles north, within their red main signal, and yes, R-L is there for 'entertainment purposes', but don't make me laugh ..... WPPA used to get its ohms handed to them and were often third on the channel at night.
I haven't done any daytime driving of consequence in months, but I'm @$$uming, if WPPA is now 3000 watts omni in the day, that WEEU 830 Reading is now the loudest AMer covering a good deal of Schuylkill County, Their relocated towers are closer to Pottsville than they are to Reading!
I read these comments from those who, in a roundabout way, seem to say that radio station owners intentionally do what listeners do not want under the guise that they're too cheap.
Let's deal with facts: radio stations are businesses. The objective of a radio station is to have the largest audience that is attractive to advertisers as possible. Thus you do as much as you possibly can to reach that goal given the financial constraints of any given station. You do not downgrade or drop employees and such unless the income and/or income potential forces this to happen. It is a worst case scenario for a station owner who strives to 'grow' the station back to better income.
I read in an earlier post that $50,000 was allocated to a station for 'fixing it' but those dollars were never spent for that. Reason: it was a bad investment where the return was iffy at best.
I work for an AM with a translator. Everybody listens to the FM, online and on the app. Those that listen to AM are very few and mostly beyond the FM's reach and when an app or online listening is not an option. The station bills about 15-20% of what it did about 1980 inflation adjusted. It's not that the station is not successful; it is with over 25% of 18+ listening. The fact is dollars the station once got now goes online and elsewhere leaving our slice of the pie greatly diminished from the 1980 time frame. All those national chains ate much of the business the local business once had.
Sadly, radio's outlook is not rosy. It's not because of voice-tracking or anything normally complained of about radio today. It is economic and plentiful media choices. Where did you buy those items you get from Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot and such in 1980?
Let's deal with facts: radio stations are businesses. The objective of a radio station is to have the largest audience that is attractive to advertisers as possible. Thus you do as much as you possibly can to reach that goal given the financial constraints of any given station. You do not downgrade or drop employees and such unless the income and/or income potential forces this to happen. It is a worst case scenario for a station owner who strives to 'grow' the station back to better income.
I read in an earlier post that $50,000 was allocated to a station for 'fixing it' but those dollars were never spent for that. Reason: it was a bad investment where the return was iffy at best.
I work for an AM with a translator. Everybody listens to the FM, online and on the app. Those that listen to AM are very few and mostly beyond the FM's reach and when an app or online listening is not an option. The station bills about 15-20% of what it did about 1980 inflation adjusted. It's not that the station is not successful; it is with over 25% of 18+ listening. The fact is dollars the station once got now goes online and elsewhere leaving our slice of the pie greatly diminished from the 1980 time frame. All those national chains ate much of the business the local business once had.
Sadly, radio's outlook is not rosy. It's not because of voice-tracking or anything normally complained of about radio today. It is economic and plentiful media choices. Where did you buy those items you get from Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot and such in 1980?
Disagree about the broad brush, b-t, covering frugality along with owners doing the opposite of what listeners want. The only instances of that sort of spite seem to pop up when stations use stunting to tell their existing listeners to go to blazes; that they're not desirable anymore.
But you're sure on-target with OTA radio's fate looking nothing like Courier & Ives Rainbows. The time when erosion and white flags in NEPA started to manifest big-time was long before so many of today's non-OTA pacifiers existed. One was an especially big wallop. Since that time, NEPA has been juggling scads of formats between stations like chess pieces and has lost AMers on 1450, 1480, 1530 and 1590 altogether.
The flare I mentioned to've gone off was when WHLM Bloomsburg, a full-fledged traditional regional occupying a signal spot on the dial that could not have been any sweeter (550!), was shut off for good before the dawn of Y2K. Their huge FM was all the company needed.
Poster oNP's thread, about WPPA's fortunes, is the issue here. The owner is keeping the Pottsville-and-environs AM audience served and introducing them to the new FM, it seems, for as long as the supply bag on the I-V pole is useful.
And again, that means it's a money issue. 105.9 is meant to be the eventual main signal instead of an extension speaker. So i.t goes with AM.
(I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a huge push to have rules changed which would allow the thousand-or-so FM translators to operate without requiring an AM dummy load to breast-feed them. For all I know -- having been out of the radio field and power-drops and pattern changes for a few decades -- some preliminaries are already in the works? )
But you're sure on-target with OTA radio's fate looking nothing like Courier & Ives Rainbows. The time when erosion and white flags in NEPA started to manifest big-time was long before so many of today's non-OTA pacifiers existed. One was an especially big wallop. Since that time, NEPA has been juggling scads of formats between stations like chess pieces and has lost AMers on 1450, 1480, 1530 and 1590 altogether.
The flare I mentioned to've gone off was when WHLM Bloomsburg, a full-fledged traditional regional occupying a signal spot on the dial that could not have been any sweeter (550!), was shut off for good before the dawn of Y2K. Their huge FM was all the company needed.
Poster oNP's thread, about WPPA's fortunes, is the issue here. The owner is keeping the Pottsville-and-environs AM audience served and introducing them to the new FM, it seems, for as long as the supply bag on the I-V pole is useful.
And again, that means it's a money issue. 105.9 is meant to be the eventual main signal instead of an extension speaker. So i.t goes with AM.
(I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a huge push to have rules changed which would allow the thousand-or-so FM translators to operate without requiring an AM dummy load to breast-feed them. For all I know -- having been out of the radio field and power-drops and pattern changes for a few decades -- some preliminaries are already in the works? )
I believe WHP 580 gets into Schuylkill county with 5kw non-directional. I have picked them up in Johnstown also.@GSpsu
Most likely, that lack of a coverage contour means WPPA is now operating omni.
That site doesn't provide omni patterns; they'd be nothing but meaningless Euclidean circles on vacant compass backgrounds, anyway. As applied from another past, coarse reference, 'You've seen one; you've seen them all'.
For someone who earlier asked about WPPA's old 5000/500 U4 patterns: I can't locate the GIF pictures of them I saved off Radio-Locator at present; those are on some dusty thumb-drive in a cluttered collection of other dusty thumb drives.
What I can say is that WPPA's daytime pattern was a loosely E-W one, no tightly cinched nulls, with maybe 2/3's of its emphasis aimed west but quite a decent signal E, N and S. They covered the geographically cockeyed Schuylkill County very well in the day.
Ah! Found it. From the entertaining archives of Radio-Locator:
When they dropped to 500 watts at night they also throttled it in, away from each Cincinnati and Hartford, and sent the bulk of it south with only a wee back-lobe north (the R-L portrayal had them covering us, 7 miles north, within their red main signal, and yes, R-L is there for 'entertainment purposes', but don't make me laugh ..... WPPA used to get its ohms handed to them and were often third on the channel at night.
I haven't done any daytime driving of consequence in months, but I'm @$$uming, if WPPA is now 3000 watts omni in the day, that WEEU 830 Reading is now the loudest AMer covering a good deal of Schuylkill County, Their relocated towers are closer to Pottsville than they are to Reading!
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