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Saving AM Radio

Two possible explanations come to mind: Either they know that a thread started specifically about those formats would not attract the kind of post totals that an existing and hijackable thread already has ... or they know already that there won't be any support for their cherished dead formats, and are gluttons for punishment by bringing them up.
And three, we see a response to something and don't even remember what the thread is about.
 
I'm not sure, but I think the old radio worked fine, so it's a matter of how good the new radio is at picking up signals.

But there is a significant amount of power line interference on my road these days. It hasn't been constant but it does happen. Lately there doesn't seem to be an interruption. I've also noticed near some power lines I get more problems when I am near a riser. That's new equipment on a lot of poles, and I walk past one of those, so I looked at the sheet that described what it was, which must have been left on the equipment that is down below even after it was shipped.
I won a cheap clock radio as a door prize.And it's the same way.Won't pick up an AM station when you can see the tower out the window
 
I'm not sure, but I think the old radio worked fine, so it's a matter of how good the new radio is at picking up signals.

But there is a significant amount of power line interference on my road these days. It hasn't been constant but it does happen. Lately there doesn't seem to be an interruption. I've also noticed near some power lines I get more problems when I am near a riser. That's new equipment on a lot of poles, and I walk past one of those, so I looked at the sheet that described what it was, which must have been left on the equipment that is down below even after it was shipped.

You might well be on to something there, referencing your later post on the "cheap" clock radio you won that apparently wasn't worth even bringing home from wherever you won it ...

I can easily see a manufacturer of an inexpensive receiver not having robust enough circuitry to filter out the electrical noise. Your old radio may well have been better able to filter that, and it wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturer of the newer radio cares about AM reception as much as I care about whether or not my favorite brand of soda is carried by the fast food place I stopped at for lunch.

And it's also possible that the newer equipment you reference is "leakier" than the old equipment or the power lines themselves.

The bottom line is one that we have all been acknowledging for years, and that is the number of sources of interference to AM radio signals has been steadily increasing and there's no putting that toothpaste back in the tube.
 
Doomsday aside, does anyone have examples of stand alone AM's (no FM translator or simulcast class A, B or C FM) making money?
Way to many to list.

In niche areas, look at the Lotus and Salem AMs, They are all profitable, and many do not have translators or if they do, ones that only add a small FM area to the AM signal.
 
I have. Shitty sounding AM stations are someone's fault. NRSC laid out the parameters for the frequency response and occupied bandwidth of an AM station, and this must be checked yearly. When this does not happen.
The NRSC measurements ensure AM stations stay within a particular mask, not to improve the quality by venturing out of the bandwidth limits. Just because someone may not do a measurement annually, has nothing, zero, zip, as to how the station sounds.
It's because either the engineer isn't getting paid to do it, or the engineer is apathetic/lazy and thinks it isn't necessary. This is a qualified statement.
No, it isn't. The statement is uninformed B.S.
Any solid state transmitter and audio processor made in the last 40 years is capable of meeting the specifications. If every station spent a few hours a year on audio quality/NRSC, we as an industry could eliminate one of the common complaints that listeners have.
Really? So staying inside a 10kHz NRSC mask will eliminate terrestrial noise? Will staying inside the mask eliminate a Faraday Cage effect? Will staying inside an NRSC mask improve the distortion of asymmetrical modulation?
I could go on, but there are abundant reasons why what you claim is bunk.
We are doing this to ourselves. There really is no excuse for bad sounding AM stations.
Sure there are many reasons, some of which I've already mentioned. AM is by far an inferior form of media when it comes to quality. Years ago Bob Carver and I worked together prior to rolling out his AM stereo tuner. After visiting many stations, he concluded that pursuing AM audio quality was a complete waste of time.
 
I can easily see a manufacturer of an inexpensive receiver not having robust enough circuitry to filter out the electrical noise.
Most noise on the AM band is analog, just like the signal of an AM station. So there is no way to filter it out unless you sharpen the selectivity to avoid noise from the sidebands. With SDRs (software defined radios) you can imitate sharp mechanical filters and reduce that sideband noise. But "static" and the junk being emitted by your wall warts, dimmers and other electronic gear is analog too... and very broadband.
 
Stingy clients will make one do the bare minimum work required. I'm not spending any more time than I have to at a site where every hour the owner is bitching about the bill I send him going up.
There is a huge percentage of stations that are not profitable. You expect generous salaries when total inflation-adjusted radio revenue is off by over 60% since 20 years ago?
Most contract engineers are just hired guns that go around putting out fires and enabling Bad Broadcasting Behavior. It really is sad.
No different than your general practitioner medical doctor: you do not have a checkup every week, but call them when you feel bad and something is not working right.
 
Most contract engineers are just hired guns that go around putting out fires and enabling Bad Broadcasting Behavior. It really is sad.

No different than your general practitioner medical doctor: you do not have a checkup every week, but call them when you feel bad and something is not working right.

Modern broadcast equipment is exponentially more reliable than that from even a few decades ago. And even going back as far as my own career (1973) the transmitter, audio chain, etc. were reasonably stable and only needed routine maintenance and periodic checks 99% of the time ... so then as now engineers mostly "put out fires" because the routine stuff was the equivalent of seeing your primary care physician for annual checkups and then not needing to call your PCP unless something unforeseen happened between checkups.

None of that qualifies, IMHO, as "bad broadcasting behavior". But, like my doctors, the contract engineer needs to look for potential issues in advance and then monitor those more carefully to make sure those issues don't "catch fire".
 
My last 6 AM where 50 KW, all turned off HD. Money is at analog, AM listeners unfortunately won't spend $$$ on HD radio receiver.
In many markets (my own market, Seattle, for example) there are no AM HD signals to tune into, removing the impetus to get an HD AM receiver.

If someone were interested in hearing an AM station in higher fidelity via HD (which I was able to tune into on the two remaining local HD AM's before they yanked the HD), they need to know that the station is in HD, and really want to hear it in HD. If no AMs are HD, there is no reason for a listener to pony up the $70-$80 to get an HD radio. Chicken and egg sort of thing.

Same applies to HD on FM, of course. I doubt the average FM listener really can notice the difference between analog FM stereo and HD stereo, especially in a car. And who tunes in the HD2's and HD3's, really? Outliers.
 

How about a 6 dB boost at 3kHz in the AM broadcast with a sharp cutoff at 4kHz (also would help to limit interference with nearby [frequency wise] AM signals)?


Kirk Bayne
That probably wouldn't be necessary as so many AM car radios already have such a limited IF bandpass, which I mentioned in my post, that cannot even pass 3 kHz let alone 4 kHz. My Kenwood is a prime example. There is virtually no adjacent channel interference in this receiver as the bandpass is so narrow.
 
The NRSC measurements ensure AM stations stay within a particular mask, not to improve the quality by venturing out of the bandwidth limits. Just because someone may not do a measurement annually, has nothing, zero, zip, as to how the station sounds.
You can tell a lot about how a station sounds by (gasp!) looking at the emitted RF spectum. Any engineer worth his salt will try to optimize the frequency reponse while staying within the NRSC mask.
No, it isn't. The statement is uninformed B.S.

Really? So staying inside a 10kHz NRSC mask will eliminate terrestrial noise? Will staying inside the mask eliminate a Faraday Cage effect? Will staying inside an NRSC mask improve the distortion of asymmetrical modulation?
I could go on, but there are abundant reasons why what you claim is bunk.
I didn't say it would fix those external effects, but it would hold up our end of the audio quality bargan. The transmission. Many car radios have adaptive bandwidth DSP and AGC that works quite well. NRSC specifically added emphasis to address recievers with poor bandwidth, while allowing those with better bandwith to benefit.
Sure there are many reasons, some of which I've already mentioned. AM is by far an inferior form of media when it comes to quality. Years ago Bob Carver and I worked together prior to rolling out his AM stereo tuner. After visiting many stations, he concluded that pursuing AM audio quality was a complete waste of time.
I never said it was superior. I do not have rose colored glasses like some on this board and in this thread about the future of AM broadcast. But there is absolutely no reason why AM stations should be transmitting 3K telephone grade crap. I repeat again... ourselves as an industry are partially to blame. Either the management doesn't know any better, doesn't care, or can't cough up another hour or two of contract time to have this signal quality addressed. Every crappy AM station I hear on my radio, I just ask, "Please, let me fix you!"
 
You can tell a lot about how a station sounds by (gasp!) looking at the emitted RF spectum. Any engineer worth his salt will try to optimize the frequency reponse while staying within the NRSC mask.
Past 10kHz? (Actually closer to 8kHz) Then wouldn't that exceed the NRSC mask?
I didn't say it would fix those external effects, but it would hold up our end of the audio quality bargan. The transmission. Many car radios have adaptive bandwidth DSP and AGC that works quite well. NRSC specifically added emphasis to address recievers with poor bandwidth, while allowing those with better bandwith to benefit.
Are you talking about the preemphasis curve standard as determined by the NRSC?
I never said it was superior. I do not have rose colored glasses like some on this board and in this thread about the future of AM broadcast. But there is absolutely no reason why AM stations should be transmitting 3K telephone grade crap.
But, wouldn't 3K be well within the NRSC mask?
I repeat again... ourselves as an industry are partially to blame. Either the management doesn't know any better, doesn't care, or can't cough up another hour or two of contract time to have this signal quality addressed.
The reality is, that AM is inherently inferior quality to every other form of media being consumed, especially when you consider streaming is now another competitor for ears. Sure, if stations stopped using asymmetrical modulation and tons of clipping it would sound better than it does on most stations, but would remain inferior. Plus doing so would reduce the beneficial coverage effects of running 125% positive peaks, considering the noise floor AM stations need to get over.
My point, and I suspect David's as well, is it's misguided to blame technical folks at radio stations for the inferior quality that is built into AM. Even Edwin Armstrong back in the 30's was proving that AM was inferior. Certainly here in the 21st Century, it's well past time to realize that's the case, rather than blame the remaining stations or their technical staff.
Every crappy AM station I hear on my radio, I just ask, "Please, let me fix you!"
No thank you!
 
Holy crap I guess I am not being clear enough. There are many stations who do not comply with the NRSC guidelines. Stations who prematurely limit their frequency response and modulation for no good reason.
It's almost like no one in this thread has ever conducted NRSC measurements or lined up an AM transmission system.
If your station isn't swinging 110% positive, 99% negative, with audio out to 9k, the engineer isn't doing their job.
 
My point, and I suspect David's as well, is it's misguided to blame technical folks at radio stations for the inferior quality that is built into AM. Even Edwin Armstrong back in the 30's was proving that AM was inferior.
Absolutely. It is amazing that Armstrong was given the task of creating a "static free" system by Sarnoff. He came up with FM, but by then Sarnoff had realized that there was to be more money in TV; he did not want FM taking small dollars from consumers when he could get big bucks by selling TV sets. So FM was thwarted and it took Armstrong's brilliant creation about three decades to become useful and viable.
 
Absolutely. It is amazing that Armstrong was given the task of creating a "static free" system by Sarnoff. He came up with FM, but by then Sarnoff had realized that there was to be more money in TV; he did not want FM taking small dollars from consumers when he could get big bucks by selling TV sets. So FM was thwarted and it took Armstrong's brilliant creation about three decades to become useful and viable.
David: Do you know in what time period set manufacturers started including FM in their radios?. I seem to recall ,as a child, my Grandfather having this big console with AM, FM and Short Wave in it. And even in the 1950's it looked old and weathered.
 


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