Shut it all* down (radio) - use OTA (ATSC 1.0) DTV (audio)

[kfbkfb]

*keep some 50kW omni AMs

With the current situation that few people are buying new radios and that people are "cord cutting" (cancelling cable/satellite TV and using a regular VHF/UHF antenna for free local TV), I propose that the existing AM & FM radio stations convert to streaming only and switch off their transmitters and that some of the top rated radio stations (AM & FM) in each market also make their audio available as an OTA DTV subchannel.

The DTV "radio" audio only subchannels could display a title card says that this subchannel is "(formerly) KCMO FM 94.9 or (formerly) KPRS FM 103.3 etc." and the audio could be mono or stereo (or the audio nirvana of 5.1 surround sound).

There could also be a national "radio" audio broadcast (the audio from WINS AM + WBBM AM + KNX FM, for example, to provide an alternative to the cable news channels) made available on local OTA DTV audio only subchannels.

Since DTVs include ATSC 1.0 tuners, these ATSC 1.0 tuners could also act as "radio" tuners with a reception range comparable to FM.

I don't know the lowest data rate for good quality audio using the latest Dolby Digital audio encoder, but my idea probably would not take too many bits away from the main and other DTV channels/subchannels.

The DTV rebroadcast (restream?) of some of the local AM & FM (former) radio stations could be helpful to shutins and other people who spend a lot of time at home (the (former) radio station content would still be "free" (same as commercial radio is "free")).


Kirk Bayne

 

[Negin]

Will never happen.

 

[inari]

Since DTVs include ATSC 1.0 tuners, these ATSC 1.0 tuners could also act as "radio" tuners with a reception range comparable to FM.

ATSC 1.0 is pretty mediocre but really bad in motion. Cars where a large percent of radio listening takes places don't have ATSC 1.0 tuners. ATSC 1.0 television reception for most people including myself requires an external antenna while a simple smaller than a brick clock radio with no external antenna will receive most FM stations pretty well.

ATSC 3.0 is significantly better but why would a broadcast give up their FM signal to be on a subchannel of some other broadcaster? If you have say 7 full-power television stations they can have 50+ audio channels that FM broadcaster is now competing with 350 additional audio channels most of which would probably have minimal advertising because of minimal audiences.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

(cancelling cable/satellite TV and using a regular VHF/UHF antenna for free local TV),

This is not a thing. People who are cutting cable are not installing antennas.

The proportion of US households using a broadcast antenna was 14% in 2019 and 14% in 2024, despite a third of households cancelling a subscription to cable/satellite. These households simply do not use linear TV at all.

Source: Television Bureau of Advertising

 

[NoWayNoCC]

No more of this digital poo-poo.

Reception got many times worse when TV switched over to digital.

 

[Mediafrog+]

No more of this digital poo-poo.

Reception got many times worse when TV switched over to digital.

The difference is that digital TV is all or nothing as far as reception goes, while analog descends into garbage as signal strength decreases.

For decades many people put up with absolutely horrible quality on many analog TV signals in fringe areas. Analog poo-poo.😝

 

[TheBigA]

There could also be a national "radio" audio broadcast (the audio from WINS AM + WBBM AM + KNX FM, for example, to provide an alternative to the cable news channels) made available on local OTA DTV audio only subchannels.

Who would run all this and decide which radio stations get to be heard? The Minister Of Radio? We don't have one.

Remember: We have a system based on the PRIVATE ownership of media. So private companies would own the TV stations. I guess you're proposing that those media companies then would reach out to radio companies (since TV companies don't own radio stations anymore.) Why would those companies only carry stations currently on AM/FM? Why couldn't they also run the millions of internet stations as well as Sirius and Apple?

It would become a big ownership fiasco.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

What about communities far enough removed they dont get reception of any AMs during the day and all they have is a puny TV translator that doesnt always reliably cover the community?

What about communities that have no tv service? how do you replace what was likely a satellitor for a semi regional station that provided some amount of local service but now cant because theres no tv signal reaching them?

When you have a metro of say 450,000 people .. with about 2/3rd being a major metro and then the remianing being the suburbs, with the suburbs being distinctly different but not enough tv signals to provide digital audio because the owners don't wanna give up revenue form the other channels... how do you handle that?

What about some of the regional and national religious networks? Seperation of church and state, plus the radio czar/fcc doesnt need to get involved in programming.. theres no way theres enough tv signals to hosue them all.. so how do you decide which ones get cut?

You apply a blanket idea across the board, once again, that wont work for everyone

And once again, youre looking for a solution to a problem/creating a problem ..... that doesnt exist without clearly understanding consumer behavior.

It would take years to petition to get new radios made to tune this..... and another several years for them to be made.. and half a decade or mroe to train listeners on new behavior.. youre talking a minimum of 10 years, clsoer to 20

 

[Miss Tuned]

 

[kwthom]

@Miss Tuned wins the Internet for the day.

/thread

 

[Mediafrog+]

It would take years to petition to get new radios made to tune this..... and another several years for them to be made.. and half a decade or mroe to train listeners on new behavior.. youre talking a minimum of 10 years, clsoer to 20

Plus you have other technologies marching ahead during all of this, which might render ATSC 3.0 radio obsolete before it ever launches. Sort of the way the buildout of cable TV systems in the late 1970s and early 1980s killed OTA subscription television.

 

[kfbkfb]

Well...

Can I listen to radio on Freeview?

You can listen to more than thirty of the best radio stations on your TV, but not through the Freeview mobile app at the moment. We'll keep you posted if this changes.

www.freeview.co.uk

Radio station audio on terrestrial DTV is being done across the pond (where I got the idea for my post).

ATSC 3.0 - LG isn't putting ATSC 3.0 tuners in their 2024 model TVs (patent litigation).
&
The title card with the former broadcast radio station call letters would be a static image (low video data rate).


Kirk Bayne

 

[secondchoice]

The "National" thing already exists. Sirius XM.

IMHO the only way to reach every address in the USA is via satellite. If you don't use Sirius XM then use a system similar to Musk's

I believe the days of linear music programming are limited except for automobile/ hands free safety issues. Folks can do their own music on line too easy

 

[TheBigA]

Radio station audio on terrestrial DTV is being done across the pond (where I got the idea for my post).

There used to be cable radio, where the cable company picked some local stations and put their audio on some channels. Today, there's Music Choice, which is a music-only delivery service owned by the cable companies. I believe it's also available on DirecTV.

Music Choice | Ad-Free Music

Music Choice is a television-based music service providing music to American homes for over 35 years. Access hundreds of ad-free channels and playlists for free with most cable packages or through a paid subscription available on select Smart TVs. Check your TV guide for channel listings, or...

www.musicchoice.com

Music Choice is a television-based music service providing music to American homes for over 35 years. Access hundreds of ad-free channels and playlists for free with most cable packages or through a paid subscription available on select Smart TVs. Check your TV guide for channel listings, or download the mobile app to take all your favorite music on the go.

The British site you linked only offers 30 stations. Most US cities have more than 30 radio stations. Who decides which stations get picked?

 

[Miss Tuned]

Well...

Can I listen to radio on Freeview?

You can listen to more than thirty of the best radio stations on your TV, but not through the Freeview mobile app at the moment. We'll keep you posted if this changes.

www.freeview.co.uk

Radio station audio on terrestrial DTV is being done across the pond (where I got the idea for my post).

ATSC 3.0 - LG isn't putting ATSC 3.0 tuners in their 2024 model TVs (patent litigation).
&
The title card with the former broadcast radio station call letters would be a static image (low video data rate).


Kirk Bayne

It gets 3% share and declining (RAJAR Q2/2024).

In March, stations owned by Bauer, one of the two main radio owners in the UK, left the platform:

Bauer radio stations to leave Freeview platform following satellite and cable exit

Radio stations owned by Bauer will be removed from Freeview in the coming months, RadioToday can reveal.Messages are starting to appear on seven radio stations currently available on the Freeview platform, informing listeners of the changes.Greatest

radiotoday.co.uk

Don't talk about a market you don't know anything about.

 

[kfbkfb]

Freeview TV with Radio stations - it's mainly that it is being done, I was thinking along the lines that USA radio station audio could be made available for free without needing actual radio transmitting hardware, just put the audio as a DTV subchannel.


Kirk Bayne

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Freeview TV with Radio stations - it's mainly that it is being done, I was thinking along the lines that USA radio station audio could be made available for free without needing actual radio transmitting hardware, just put the audio as a DTV subchannel.


Kirk Bayne

youd run out of dtv sub channels long before you ran out of radio stations .... and you didnt address my questions up above which nixes your idea

 

[tvnut]

This is not a thing. People who are cutting cable are not installing antennas.

The proportion of US households using a broadcast antenna was 14% in 2019 and 14% in 2024, despite a third of households cancelling a subscription to cable/satellite. These households simply do not use linear TV at all.

Source: Television Bureau of Advertising

As always with any argument, the notion that 100 percent of people are or are not doing something is a fallacy.
A friend cut the cable television cord. I don't recall how he gets internet service, but for broadcast TV, he put a small antenna on an overhanging beam in his living room. Gets every Chicago-area channel, and he's about 35 miles from downtown. If one person does it, surely others have.

As for the thread-starter's concept, no, not happening in the real world.

 

[valvashon]

You clearly have too much time on your hands and my lawn needs to be mowed. Message me for my address and where I stash the mower.

Also, I work for a TV station with 8 subchannels, two in HD. Some of our existing subchannels look pretty soft so trust me, we aren't giving up any bandwidth for a bunch of radio station audio and a low bitrate ID card.

Val

 

[vchimpanzee]

The difference is that digital TV is all or nothing as far as reception goes, while analog descends into garbage as signal strength decreases.

Digital, as it turns out, can be perfect about half the time but then have numerous interruptions. Which isn't good enough.

For decades many people put up with absolutely horrible quality on many analog TV signals in fringe areas. Analog poo-poo.😝

And yet I found out one of the stations I had trouble with had a perfect signal when I got the antenna I used for digital TV.

Sadly, that station broadcast one thing: Instructions on how to watch digital TV. I needed cable to continue to watch its regular programming. At the time, that seemed better than getting a better antenna.