Vancouver's 50,000 Watt AM Stations

[Goldilocks94941]

All very good points. The one saving grace for AM that I see has to do with geography. Even in Vancouver, there are tons of communities, towns, and regions that are outside of Vancouver that have no significant broadcast FM radio coverage. The major 50kw stations might be the only radio stations a person in these areas can hear reliably during the day.

Though, I think that geography has also handicapped many of these stations. Looking at nearly all of the coverage maps, most of the signal is blasted west and northwest to Vancouver Island. The AMs start to get choppy as you travel east, with even CKWX 1130 (arguably the most powerful station in town) having serious reception issues by the time you reach the Fraser Valley. That can’t be a good thing, since you’d want your core listening area to be serviced well by your station.

From an engineering standpoint, it seems like other west coast cities don’t need to worry about this problem nearly as much.

With their latest change in management, CKWX (AM 1130) needs to put more effort into working with the FCC on the 'critical hour' interference from the Russian-language station in Mt Angel, Oregon that is aimed northward. It seriously chews up its signal on 1130 for a couple of hours before sunset before they reduce power. It makes listening to the only all-news station in the region impossible (and it sounds like Russian jamming from the good ol' days!). I've even found it a problem on the Canadian side of the border in Abbotsford and Langley. But I don't count on anyone doing anything about it except lamenting why people aren't listening. Or telling them to listen to their HD-2 outlet. I tried to buy an HD capable radio last weekend in Surry BC - none I could find are on sale.

Rule number one for radio success: You have to have a good signal people can hear without effort. So don't be surprised when listenership goes down, with overly jammed signals competing in formerly protected zones adds to the decline.

Anyone remember when AM 900 was on the air from Victoria? "Village 900" was run by a small college, until they decided they didn't want to do it anymore and shut it down. It had a good signal into the Seattle suburbs and I quite enjoyed the world music and BBC news it aired.

 

[fordranger797]

With their latest change in management, CKWX (AM 1130) needs to put more effort into working with the FCC on the 'critical hour' interference from the Russian-language station in Mt Angel, Oregon that is aimed northward. It seriously chews up its signal on 1130 for a couple of hours before sunset before they reduce power. It makes listening to the only all-news station in the region impossible (and it sounds like Russian jamming from the good ol' days!). I've even found it a problem on the Canadian side of the border in Abbotsford and Langley. But I don't count on anyone doing anything about it except lamenting why people aren't listening. Or telling them to listen to their HD-2 outlet. I tried to buy an HD capable radio last weekend in Surry BC - none I could find are on sale.

Rule number one for radio success: You have to have a good signal people can hear without effort. So don't be surprised when listenership goes down, with overly jammed signals competing in formerly protected zones adds to the decline.

Anyone remember when AM 900 was on the air from Victoria? "Village 900" was run by a small college, until they decided they didn't want to do it anymore and shut it down. It had a good signal into the Seattle suburbs and I quite enjoyed the world music and BBC news it aired.

I think it's been well over a decade now since the station in Mount Angel signed on, so if nothing has been done about it already, I doubt anything will be done. I agree though, having a listenable signal is a must (especially in 2025 where people aren't going to put up with a weak signal just to listen to the radio). But the issue that CKWX faces is a challenge for all of the Vancouver AMs; getting enough signal out into the valley is challenging. Most of the power gets thrown out toward the island to prevent interference on other stations.

In the old days, it probably didn't matter as much. I wasn't there, so I cannot confirm, but it makes sense. Vancouver used to be a fairly small city, with most of the population concentrated to the west. In recent decades, the population has moved considerably to the east. But the existing AM patterns aren't favorable.

Corus got the message and is moving to a far better frequency on 730.

 

[RF101]

I guess 980 is now looped audio telling folks to re-tune to 730. 28th is supposedly the last 980 day.

 

[fordranger797]

I guess 980 is now looped audio telling folks to re-tune to 730. 28th is supposedly the last 980 day.

I thought the broadcast on 980 would last a little longer. I thought mid March was the projected shutdown date.

Either way, the AM dial is getting pretty sparse. That officially leaves 3 AM stations that are left broadcasting English language programming that are actually BC based.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I thought the broadcast on 980 would last a little longer. I thought mid March was the projected shutdown date.

Either way, the AM dial is getting pretty sparse. That officially leaves 3 AM stations that are left broadcasting English language programming that are actually BC based.

I count four English language AM stations in Vancouver: CISL AM-650, CBU, the new 730, and CKNW News 1130. (Unless CISL has changed again - hard to hear them now where I'm at in Seattle with the splatter from Mt Vernon's AM 660.) And CFAX 1070 from Victoria puts in a fair signal in parts of the metro. And I enjoy listening to it in Seattle, too. All with at least 10kw fulltime, except it looks like CISL drops to 4kw at night. Good signals, but not much to choose from, for such a large 'market.' Otherwise add an equal number Chinese and Punjabi language outlets on the rest of the AM dial in Vancouver.
Then again, I can't think of much more than 4 AM signals that seem worth the effort anymore in attracting a general audience in most US large markets either.

 

[fordranger797]

I count four English language AM stations in Vancouver: CISL AM-650, CBU, the new 730, and CKNW News 1130. (Unless CISL has changed again - hard to hear them now where I'm at in Seattle with the splatter from Mt Vernon's AM 660.) And CFAX 1070 from Victoria puts in a fair signal in parts of the metro. And I enjoy listening to it in Seattle, too. All with at least 10kw fulltime, except it looks like CISL drops to 4kw at night. Good signals, but not much to choose from, for such a large 'market.' Otherwise add an equal number Chinese and Punjabi language outlets on the rest of the AM dial in Vancouver.
Then again, I can't think of much more than 4 AM signals that seem worth the effort anymore in attracting a general audience in most US large markets either.

You’re correct, there are four English AM stations. Ironically, I can’t really hear CFAX at my place, even though it seems like I should be able to hear it.

I agree though. I think the AM band is oversaturated in the US. In Seattle, 570, 710, 770, 820, 880, 950, 1000, 1090, 1300, 1360, 1380, and 1520 are the ones that come immediately to mind as being the better stations in the market. You could even boil it down further to just 570, 710, 950, 1000 and 1090, (as these are the stations that you’d easily be able to hear in most of the market if you wanted to).

I guess what makes the Vancouver situation so interesting is that the cream of the crop AMs are riding off into the sunset. 1040 and 1410 were both pretty favorable frequencies, and yet they’re long gone. 980 is inferior to 730, but it’s also not bad.

 

[semoochie]

I count four English language AM stations in Vancouver: CISL AM-650, CBU, the new 730, and CKNW News 1130. (Unless CISL has changed again - hard to hear them now where I'm at in Seattle with the splatter from Mt Vernon's AM 660.) And CFAX 1070 from Victoria puts in a fair signal in parts of the metro. And I enjoy listening to it in Seattle, too. All with at least 10kw fulltime, except it looks like CISL drops to 4kw at night. Good signals, but not much to choose from, for such a large 'market.' Otherwise add an equal number Chinese and Punjabi language outlets on the rest of the AM dial in Vancouver.
Then again, I can't think of much more than 4 AM signals that seem worth the effort anymore in attracting a general audience in most US large markets either.

I'm sorry but I don't get out much. Is 600 gone?

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

I'm sorry but I don't get out much. Is 600 gone?

no, but its not english

 

[RF101]

..Unless CISL has changed again - hard to hear them now where I'm at in Seattle with the splatter from Mt Vernon's AM 660....

Wow! You got that right. KAPS 660 has a really dirty signal spectrum-wise making it hard to hear 650 south of Bellingham.

Log on to one of the region's KiwiSDRs and you'll observe the 660 mess. Or you can just drive I-5 and tune in firsthand.

 

[fordranger797]

I'm sorry but I don't get out much. Is 600 gone?

The original 600 has been gone for quite a while now. Almost 15 years now, I believe. However, 600am was resurrected a few years ago by the broadcasting group who originally ran 1550 in Whatcom County. It’s back with a Punjabi (primarily) language format. I’d say it’s one of the stronger stations in town, now that the power has been cranked up.

 

[fordranger797]

Wow! You got that right. KAPS 660 has a really dirty signal spectrum-wise making it hard to hear 650 south of Bellingham.

Log on to one of the region's KiwiSDRs and you'll observe the 660 mess. Or you can just drive I-5 and tune in firsthand.

That probably has something to do with their strange antenna. I’ve always received KAPS pretty clearly around the north sound though. And in Vancouver, CISL is a bit on the weak side.

 

[Bongwater]

KAPS has something I think called (and I know Im going to screw this up) a PARNAM antenna. It's those four evenly spaced mini-towers in the shadow of the bigger daytime tower. It's supposed to suppress the skywave, protecting 660 Calgary and others. There were only a handful of stations with a PARNAM antenna, now there are just a couple left. Or even just KAPS.

 

[semoochie]

KAPS has something I think called (and I know Im going to screw this up) a PARNAM antenna. It's those four evenly spaced mini-towers in the shadow of the bigger daytime tower. It's supposed to suppress the skywave, protecting 660 Calgary and others. There were only a handful of stations with a PARNAM antenna, now there are just a couple left. Or even just KAPS.

Aren't the four towers actually non-directional?

 

[fordranger797]

Speaking of CKSP 600: it appears that CKSP is using the same transmitter site that CKNW 980 used/uses in Surrey. So I suppose that site will continue to operate in the years to come, sans 980.

 

[Gregg.]

I'm still not sure how 980 got Class A status if it's on a regional frequency. Yes, CKNW is 50,000 watts. But all across North America, 980 is regional. Just as Class B 950 WWJ Detroit is 50,000 watts and Class B 580 KMJ Fresno is 50,000 watts. They run the maximum power but on regional frequencies.

Even though 980 and 730 are both 50,000 watts full time, 730 has the better coverage area. 980 uses four towers for its directional antenna. 730 uses three towers by day, four by night, for its directional antenna. And 730 is lower on the dial, so it also has that advantage over 980.

Whoever sought Class A status for CKNW must be disappointed to learn that 980 will soon go dark as CKNW goes to 730 AM. 730 is a clear channel frequency for XEX Mexico City and CKAC Montreal. (CKAC is another station that got bumped up to Class A status sometime in recent years. Originally, only XEX was a Class A on 730.)

 

[RF101]

KAPS has something I think called (and I know Im going to screw this up) a PARNAM antenna. It's those four evenly spaced mini-towers in the shadow of the bigger daytime tower. It's supposed to suppress the skywave, protecting 660 Calgary and others.

I don't think the single, taller stick is used anymore other than to host the KAPS/KBRC FM translators and some other remote pickup gear.

 

[fordranger797]

I don't think the single, taller stick is used anymore other than to host the KAPS/KBRC FM translators and some other remote pickup gear.

A poor spot for their FM translators in all honesty. Maybe it’s not possible to move them anywhere else, but that location is extremely low.

 

[fordranger797]

I'm still not sure how 980 got Class A status if it's on a regional frequency. Yes, CKNW is 50,000 watts. But all across North America, 980 is regional. Just as Class B 950 WWJ Detroit is 50,000 watts and Class B 580 KMJ Fresno is 50,000 watts. They run the maximum power but on regional frequencies.

Even though 980 and 730 are both 50,000 watts full time, 730 has the better coverage area. 980 uses four towers for its directional antenna. 730 uses three towers by day, four by night, for its directional antenna. And 730 is lower on the dial, so it also has that advantage over 980.

Whoever sought Class A status for CKNW must be disappointed to learn that 980 will soon go dark as CKNW goes to 730 AM. 730 is a clear channel frequency for XEX Mexico City and CKAC Montreal. (CKAC is another station that got bumped up to Class A status sometime in recent years. Originally, only XEX was a Class A on 730.)

Even with Class A status, 980 definitely was not as strong as 730. I was shocked by how rough 980 sounded when I first moved to the area. The signal was weak and barely listenable downtown. Again, it probably worked decently well in the “old days,” but one of the most important news/talk stations needs (without a doubt) a clear frequency in 2025.

Ironically, while 730 is Class B, it sounds just as good as a clear channel around most of the market. And I guess it’s technically possible that someone else could want 980.

 

[The New Chico]

A poor spot for their FM translators in all honesty. Maybe it’s not possible to move them anywhere else, but that location is extremely low.

Well, it has the advantage of being cheap, at least. But, yeah, a site on Burlington HIll or Little Mountain would sure be better. It's pretty sad.

 

[davideduardo]

Ironically, while 730 is Class B, it sounds just as good as a clear channel around most of the market. And I guess it’s technically possible that someone else could want 980.

Locally in a station's market area its class has nothing to do with how "good" it sounds. A 50 kw station on any channel is as good as one of a different class on an adjacent channel.

When I operated AM stations in Ecuador, I was subject to the different regulations in adjacent Colombia and Perú. Colombia called 540 to 1000 kHz as our equivalent of clear channels with up to 100 kw. Then up to 1250 had up to 10 kw, and from there to 1600 had just 1 kw. Perú had different licencing, partly dependent, it appeared, to city size. And Ecuador was at random so I could have put 10 kw or even 50 or 100 kw on any of my stations if I wanted to.

So in my case, the best frequency was always a low one where nobody else in either country had a big signal nearby. And with those Vancouver market 50 kw stations, all that matters is how restrictive the directional system is and how well it puts a signal over the metro area population.