Seems like a lot of these shows have gone away, though there's some with a specialty sound like Throwback Nation Radio. Cumulus used to do syndicated nights, but sometimes it's programming wasn't "in sync" with the night (for example, some stations had a rhythmic lean during the day and had a completely mainstream Top 40 sound at night, making it very different than a lot of CHRs. A lot of Open House Party affiliates were "in sync" with its "sound." But did programs which provide the music throw listeners off? Someone I knew brought up they were listening to the Hot AC in town and their music sure was different and wondered if they changed format; it was Saturday night, so I knew they were listening to Throwback Nation Radio. But I wonder if syndication throws some listeners off?
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Syndicated programming and music.
- Thread starter tall_guy1
- Start date
I think research and PPM have shown that listeners just want the regular format no matter when they tune in. Syndicated shows with a lot of music that varies from the regular format may have been the only way to get said music back in the day, but with everything available all the time now, I think the consensus seems to be that most stations just want to be as consistent in music and presentation as possible in all dayparts.
That said, some weekend shows absolutely still work. Both the current American Top 40 and the Casey era replays being a perfect example. But it's no coincidence on the current Ryan Seacrest version that the AT40 chart is now created specifically from affiliate data and the talk segments are a PPM friendly length that simulate a regular music sweep.
That said, some weekend shows absolutely still work. Both the current American Top 40 and the Casey era replays being a perfect example. But it's no coincidence on the current Ryan Seacrest version that the AT40 chart is now created specifically from affiliate data and the talk segments are a PPM friendly length that simulate a regular music sweep.
Yes, I noticed a lot of the syndicated programming has left the last few years except the Weekly Top 40 as an exception.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
Blanket statements such as the two of you are making ignore individual market considerations.
But, if you want a cookie-cutter view ... things have not changed in this regard as much as you think they have. Listening for most stations, even those with the highest ratings, drops precipitously on weekend nights. That's still the best daypart for syndicated programming (other than morning shows, which do work very hard to localize their presentations, for the most part).
There is little to no evidence that listening levels are better in that daypart running the regular format. If either of you have proof via Nielsen numbers that it is the case in a specific market or markets, please feel free to submit same.
Otherwise, this is just conjecture, as evidenced by the opening ...
"Seems like" is not a statement of fact. It is one of opinion or personal anecdotal experience. You cannot come to a factual conclusion relying on same.
But, if you want a cookie-cutter view ... things have not changed in this regard as much as you think they have. Listening for most stations, even those with the highest ratings, drops precipitously on weekend nights. That's still the best daypart for syndicated programming (other than morning shows, which do work very hard to localize their presentations, for the most part).
There is little to no evidence that listening levels are better in that daypart running the regular format. If either of you have proof via Nielsen numbers that it is the case in a specific market or markets, please feel free to submit same.
Otherwise, this is just conjecture, as evidenced by the opening ...
"Seems like" is not a statement of fact. It is one of opinion or personal anecdotal experience. You cannot come to a factual conclusion relying on same.
They do add a bit of variety, but at least on pop stations, stuff like Open House Party and MRL don't have as many affiliates anymore and Delilah is on less AC stations now then before. A lot of Cumulus CHR stations now do nights locally. The evidence is they get taken off the air on a lot of individual stations most of the time, except a few for a lot of shows. Look at Open House Party...it's been around for years, yet it's pretty scarce on radio in comparison to it's heyday. Most Requested Live also has less affiliates than it did.
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K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
How are you determining the number of station drops and how often? I'm going to presume you don't have access to the actual affiliate station lists as that is proprietary information.
The TuneIn app a while back gave info on who carried OHP. I used to try to catch it when my affiliate quit airing it, but was able to see it's affiliates keep decreasing. Most Requested Live has a map on its site. It's still carried by a decent amount of stations, but ten years ago, it had a lot more.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
That seems like a reasonable way to see the decline, but I wish we could see what's happening with the other syndicated weekend shows, in order to get a better (and more accurate) picture.
Yes, not really sure. I know Throwback Nation Radio is a relatively new show and a few places I've visited carry it on classic hits. My thread's more about how listeners perceive these shows and their different music choices than normal.
I look at the CHR station in my market, which used to air two countdowns (AT40 with Seacrest and iHeart Countdown) and mix/club style shows on both Saturday and Sunday evenings. They still air AT40, but it now airs 7a-11a instead of 8a-Noon and all other syndicated shows have been removed in recent years.
The AC station used to air Delilah, Tesh and The 80s Show. All gone in favor of regular programming.
Our Classic Hits station still airs AT40 the 80s, but has dropped other shows over the years.
I also don't think it's off base to make the broad statement that the majority of stations, especially in PPM markets, are far less likely to air programming that may stray musically from their regular format than they would have "back in the day."
The AC station used to air Delilah, Tesh and The 80s Show. All gone in favor of regular programming.
Our Classic Hits station still airs AT40 the 80s, but has dropped other shows over the years.
I also don't think it's off base to make the broad statement that the majority of stations, especially in PPM markets, are far less likely to air programming that may stray musically from their regular format than they would have "back in the day."
I don't have much doubt that there are fewer syndicated music programs now than there were 20 years ago.
By "syndicated" I mean available to any station that wants to take it, not something like "Taste of Country" which is only offered internally by Townsquare.
For example, Westwood One's web site currently lists 7 shows in the Weekday Music and Entertainment category, of which three are morning zoo/comedy shows such as Bob & Tom.
Three years ago, they had 19 shows on the list.
On the weekend side, today they list 7 shows, and in 2022 they listed 13 shows. Going back further, in 2015, the weekend list was 19 shows.
It stands to reason that fewer shows means fewer affiliates, but that isn't necessarily proof.
By "syndicated" I mean available to any station that wants to take it, not something like "Taste of Country" which is only offered internally by Townsquare.
For example, Westwood One's web site currently lists 7 shows in the Weekday Music and Entertainment category, of which three are morning zoo/comedy shows such as Bob & Tom.
Three years ago, they had 19 shows on the list.
On the weekend side, today they list 7 shows, and in 2022 they listed 13 shows. Going back further, in 2015, the weekend list was 19 shows.
It stands to reason that fewer shows means fewer affiliates, but that isn't necessarily proof.
99.7 the Point in Kansas City airs Throwback Nation Radio on Saturday Night and Throwback 2K on Sunday night...that one doesn't stray as far from their norm, but was moved from Friday to Sunday a while back. 94.9 KCMO have a few specialty type shows Sunday night. Mix 93.3 and 107.3 the Vibe don't have much syndicated programming outside Weekly top 40.
The PPM Markets are the largest in the country, and much of all ad sales is through agencies. Syndicated shows take part of the inventory, sometimes as much as half. In those large markets, stations do not want to give advertisers a cheaper way of advertising on their station than buying direct; the advertisers who use "network buys" for syndicated shows have national agencies.
Some of the syndicated shows have localized music or are voice tracked, though. What I am referring to is syndicated programming where the music and everything is a national feed.
Kid Kelly considered ending Backtrax USA 8 years ago and talked about the reasons why on this podcast:
TL;DR (or hear). What was the main reason?
That is what I am talking about. Most syndicated shows are paid for by advertisers who the show sells spots to. Then the stations run the show with the ads in it.
This type of ad-sponsored syndication was created by Tom Rounds about 55 years ago with his American Top 40. AT40 "invented" having shows given "free" to stations in exchange for running the ads that came with the show. The show take a percentage of ad time in the hour, and the station sells the rest.
AT40 was given to stations; only in small markets did they just have to pay the shipping and packaging cost-
That model is in use today, except that shows are delivered online, and they are ready for whatever program automation system the station has.
Listen to it and find out
A show featuring 80s music wasn't/isn't as unique, there are so many options now. Plus he mentions he has been doing it for so long and doesn't want it to go too long.
That said, nine years later he's still doing the shows.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
From my perspective, only the encore airing of American Top 40: The 80s and Premiere's nationwide Saturday night show on many of their own Classic Hits stations (and nowhere else) are still getting significant exposure. There are still other shows but none of them approach the number of affiliates those two have.
But I don't agree with the premise that stations want to just run the regular format instead (although I can see an advantage to that strategy in PPM markets). I think it's more a case of interpreting what Kid Kelly said in that interview as meaning there are too many shows available, stations that do want that programming will go for the best possible shows they can get, and that is forcing out the shows of lesser quality.
And, extrapolating from that, I believe Kelly keeps doing Backtrax because he's kept up the quality and not losing very many affiliates as he continues. But I am certain that he will sooner or later hit the point where he really doesn't think it's worth the effort anymore. And that is his decision to make.