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770 WABC Number 1 ?

K.M. Richards said:
I think I should make a point here.

When anyone draws conclusions from the 6+ numbers -- good or bad -- there will always be someone here who will dismiss that opinion. If it's not me, it will be David. Or Big A. Or Nathan. Or Mike Hagerty. Or Lance!

In fact, the fastest way to prove you are an outsider is to claim the 6+ numbers (or 12+, in diary markets) have any real world meaning. There are probably lurkers who, instead of correcting the misinterpretation, laugh behind your backs at your apparent naïvete.

There is one good use for the 6+ numbers for discussion purposes. They are a good reference point for asking, based on those, how well a station is doing in its target demographic. There is usually someone here with access to the demo breakouts who can answer that without breaking Nielsen's proprietary data restriction.

But trying to measure a station's success by those? As I said, laughable.
Click to expand...
If a station that's said to attract a 70+ demo scores well in 6+, isn't that impressive?

Given that most of the 6+ demo doesn't listen, that small Rx slice should be of great interest to advertisers, no?
 
Always interested said:
Thanks for replying. I also posted that they we’re number 1 on Long Island a few days ago on this board. But I was greeted Rudely by other Members saying it didn’t matter, they didn’t reach the key Demographics.
Click to expand...
And that is true. Again, Nielsen gives the 6+ numbers away for free because that is all they are worth. Nielsen likes the publicity, because that helps them recruit people to participate in their surveys. Period.
 
wadio said:
If a station that's said to attract a 70+ demo scores well in 6+, isn't that impressive?
Click to expand...
No.
wadio said:
Given that most of the 6+ demo doesn't listen, that small Rx slice should be of great interest to advertisers, no?
Click to expand...
No.

Almost all ratings-based ad sales use some part of 18-54 demographics to evaluate the buy.
 
wadio said:
Why? Please explain.
Click to expand...
The principal users of radio ratings are ad agency managed accounts. Each agency account has a target consumer, generally expressed by age and gender as well as income level, ethnicity, language preference.

A typical retail account might seek Women 25-44 as their main target. A tire chain store would likely go for men 25-54. There are very few advertisers that aim outside of 18-54 or some subset. They do that because they know from research that this is where advertising produces profitable sales.

I can't think of any station I have worked with in the last 50 years that ever looked at 12+ numbers.
 
davideduardo said:
I can't think of any station I have worked with in the last 50 years that ever looked at 12+ numbers.
Click to expand...
Maybe they should!

It seems to me that if:
  • 6+ includes everyone from 6 years old to death
  • 6-year-olds to 20-somethongs probably don't know what a "radio" is
  • 25-54-year-olds probably don't listen to WABC
  • But 55+ listeners
    • buy pharmaceutical products - there are plenty of ad dollars there
    • buy new cars (Pontiacs are no longer available)
    • buy clothing (Bob's Stores no longer exists)
    • buy groceries (no more A&P)
    • etc.
Then,
  • Maybe they're missing a vibrant market on a station like WABC that's attracting a good 6+ rating. No?
 
wadio said:
Maybe they should!

It seems to me that if:
  • 6+ includes everyone from 6 years old to death
  • 6-year-olds to 20-somethongs probably don't know what a "radio" is
  • 25-54-year-olds probably don't listen to WABC
  • But 55+ listeners
    • buy pharmaceutical products - there are plenty of ad dollars there
    • buy new cars (Pontiacs are no longer available)
    • buy clothing (Bob's Stores no longer exists)
    • buy groceries (no more A&P)
    • etc.
Then,
  • Maybe they're missing a vibrant market on a station like WABC that's attracting a good 6+ rating. No?
Click to expand...
No. Those advertisers know how much each dollar in advertising comes back in sales. If there is no positive number, they do not advertise to that group.

Major advertisers collectively spend billions a year in market research. They know who their customers are, and for most products it is not persons over 55.
 
wadio said:
Maybe they should!

It seems to me that if:
  • 6+ includes everyone from 6 years old to death
  • 6-year-olds to 20-somethongs probably don't know what a "radio" is
  • 25-54-year-olds probably don't listen to WABC
  • But 55+ listeners
    • buy pharmaceutical products - there are plenty of ad dollars there
    • buy new cars (Pontiacs are no longer available)
    • buy clothing (Bob's Stores no longer exists)
    • buy groceries (no more A&P)
    • etc.
Then,
  • Maybe they're missing a vibrant market on a station like WABC that's attracting a good 6+ rating. No?
Click to expand...

This has been discussed in plenty of threads. Perhaps you missed those discussions.

David and BigA are correct.
 
TheBigA said:
That same demographic listens to WINS. Bigger audience, less negativity.
Click to expand...
Generally, if you look at sharing n/t stations are not huge sharers with each other. They seem to be almost separate listener factions
 
wadio said:
Don't be too sure. The status quo applies until it doesn't.
Click to expand...
As long as long as there are no agency buys for radio for any part of the over 55 demographic, this will continue. It has not changed for decades.
 
davideduardo said:
As long as long as there are no agency buys for radio for any part of the over 55 demographic, this will continue. It has not changed for decades.
Click to expand...

And there is a lessening interest by agencies in radio itself, and that has been going steadily downhill for a couple of decades.

The status quo does indeed change, but not in the way @wadio wishes it would.
 
davideduardo said:
As long as long as there are no agency buys for radio for any part of the over 55 demographic, this will continue. It has not changed for decades.
Click to expand...
But it has changed, hasn't it? A couple of decades ago there was barely a market for pharmaceutical advertising, today it's big business. Are agencies wearing blindfolds?
 
wadio said:
I don't have a dog in the fight.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your posts imply that you do. Vehement opposition to the opinions of those who know the business tends to give that implication ... at least the way I am reading them.
 
Major Corporate Radio Stations generally subscribe to these ratings and get and can use the exact data. That data is what agencies
use to find their best target(s.) Generally, agencies know where to put their dollars, even without the numbers, but its a valued working
relationship.

Smaller radio companies may choose to buy the book, as well. Radio stations can only use the info IF they pay. This
does help in selling local advertising, IF* the numbers/ratings look good. *That's a whole other contentious can of worms.
Often these stations (the few stand alones and/or mom and pops) will find a format that works locally for them. They know they will
not usually get tons of agency business, if any. So this is usually why these stations cater to a niche so they can/or have to work the local
market dollars. There is often less radio competition (and usually profit) at this level. Literally two different business models. Then
you have the EMF's and other religious or non-profit segment. I contend, this really hurts the overall radio dial and options for listeners,
but helps local driven stations with less "commercial" competition.

As mentioned above, radio is a diminishing desire of marketing and agencies are keenly aware of this.

Since the majority of the conversation has been mostly about WABC, wadio, apply some of you "thinking" to this specifically for WABC or
simliar situations:

The audience is not agency friendly, or in the demographic, but there is a loyal audience that does, sadly, reduce a bit each day.
JK has a decent value advertising tool with this station. Plus, IF he can get advertisers that coincide with his businesses, get political buys
and use his station as his shameless self promotion write-off mechanism, he's in the money.

I said when he bought this station, that in a way, he got a fantastic "deal." That "deal "would not apply to a different type of owner of this
exact station, like Cumulus.

I believe this is a rare large market success story where "the little guy" is living his radio dream. He is saying his thing. He does not answer to the accounting
department or mafia money backers that have hacked up so many other radio stations. He doesn't answer to anyone else. Except MAYBE the FCC and
his wife if he says the wrong on the air. Seems like a pretty decent place to be, if done right. I'd call it the All American Dream. Even in 2025.
 


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