WCSB Flips to Jazz

[ted chittenden]

The problem with the Nielsen numbers is they don't show Sirius, Spotify, Apple, and all the various non broadcast streaming services. So it's based on a false reality. If you were to insert those other sources, you'd see a very different picture. If you look at Cleveland, the most popular broadcast stations are those that target older listeners. That should be an indication for the demographics of broadcast radio. In the case of WCSB, it's a station that is paid for primarily by a university and a student activity fee. We know that usage of broadcast radio by people in their 20s is very low. So if I'm a college student who wants to reach people my age, the use of FM is probably not the first choice.



I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The costs for everything are rising. If you're talking about music royalties, they are negotiated for both broadcasting and digital, and consequently, they are rising in both places. Let me remind you of this story from August:

I'm referring to the idea (taught in both economic and accounting classes) of fixed costs versus variable costs. Fixed costs are the costs you have to pay no matter how many people listen. Over-the-air stations have a lot of these including the startup costs of getting a transmitter and getting a license, among other things. It doesn't matter how many listeners you have, your cost as a radio station will stay the same.

Variable costs, on the other hand, are the costs you have to pay for listeners to listen to your station. While they are the same per listener, they increase to the station for each additional person who listens. Over-the-air radio stations do not have these costs, but webcasters (and Internet simulcasters) do. The charge per song per listener is an example of a variable cost and that is what SoundExchange charges you to stream the songs within its purview.

 

[TheBigA]

I wonder if the inevitable transience of the student broadcasters hurts these stations to an extent? You're rarely going to have someone on there for more than four years, if they join in fresher's week and stay through their entire degree.

Sure, but you also have a lot of non-students, who are either alumni or people from the community. At my former college station, all of the ethnic shows are done by the same people who were there when I was a student. They have a weekend country music show programmed by someone who was there when I was a student. So those people bring the consistency of personality to the station. But they're programming music in a way that appeals to a very small percentage of the potential audience. A professionally run station would try to target the music better so its a more consistent sound.

But if you look at the NYC ratings I posted, WFUV is a professionally run non-com owned by Fordham University. They have a very consistent AAA music format which is unique in NYC. Yet they still can't get a 1 share of the audience. However Fordham is a very well-endowed university with a commitment to broadcasting, and the radio station raises enough money to pay for all its expenses, including facilities and staff. That wasn't the case for WCSB.

 

[TheBigA]

Over-the-air radio stations do not have these costs, but webcasters (and Internet simulcasters) do. The charge per song per listener is an example of a variable cost and that is what SoundExchange charges you to stream the songs within its purview.

You're talking about a small part of the overall budget. Less than 5%. If you're operating a small online station, the best way to do it is paying a radio hosting service such as Live365. They will handle your music royalties for you, and you pay a fixed monthly or annual charge to host your radio station.

Live365 - Broadcast and Listen to Internet Radio

Live365 is the easiest and least expensive way to create a legal internet radio station as well as the best place to discover and listen to thousands of free stations from every genre of music and talk.

live365.com

 

[geoffpeters]

The lockdown made it difficult to recruit when they were locked out of the building for 15 months which reduced student numbers and caused many problems.

Thanks for your post-you raised a lot of issues about which I didn't know or had even considered-but I would take issue with this statement. I don't argue the truth of it, but it is now 2025...that's more than enough time to get more than some 20 students on-air...the other stations seemed to have done it...WCSB managers needed to make a better effort to get other students involved

I just don't get why CSU didn't say "we no longer see this station as adding value to enough students to make it worth keeping..., we want out." CSU could not have botched this any worse...

 

[TheBigA]

I just don't get why CSU didn't say "we no longer see this station as adding value to enough students to make it worth keeping..., we want out." CSU could not have botched this any worse...

I agree, but that would be a negative statement. If you read all of Bloomberg's statements, she kept it positive, talking about the benefits of the new deal without criticizing the students or the station.

All she really had to do was lay out the financials: How much the university was paying, and how all of those costs will now be handled by Ideastream. If people could see those numbers, they'd understand. Especially given the financial situation at the university. Big mistake in my opinion.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

However, if you look at the New York City Nielsen numbers, you'll see a lot of college stations, including several student run stations, such as WSOU from Seton Hall. That station was programmed with a format that was very similar to the old WCSB.

WSOU is a heavy metal format, unique for a college radio station. It was not very similar to WCSB which I understand played wide range of programming more typical of college radio. So that's not an apples-to-apples comparison at all, especially considering the demographic differences between NYC and Cleveland.

These kinds of stations don't program for ratings, but even if you want to talk about that, I doubt the audience for the new Jazz format will be any larger than the previous one at WCSB.

This is all about one ultra-wealthy one percenter who cut a backroom deal with the university and the local big-money public broadcaster to essentially steal the radio station from the students so he could play his hoity-toity jazz music on it, as if his culture is superior to theirs. No wonder people in that city are pissed.

 

[TheBigA]

These kinds of stations don't program for ratings, but even if you want to talk about that, I doubt the audience for the new Jazz format will be any larger than the previous one at WCSB.

I agree. You can see the JazzNEO format gets a ,1 on the HD-2 it's on now. So you're right about the ratings. The key thing is that Ideastream knows how to monetize that audience, while the university does not. That's why they're giving operational control of the station to Ideastream.

0.1

WCLV-FM HD2

Jazz Neo

Jazz

Ideastream

2,300

This is all about one ultra-wealthy one percenter who cut a backroom deal with the university and the local big-money public broadcaster

Somebody has to pay for these radio stations. Do you prefer the students and their parents pay? Do you prefer the Ohio taxpayers pay? It has to be somebody. Ideastream has a plan to pay for the station, and the university is losing money. All of radio is in the same boat. They're all losing money, and looking for someone to pick up the cost. Figure that out, and you will save radio. If you think people are pissed now, ask them how they'd feel to pay higher property taxes in order to pay for a student radio station. Everybody wants to hear their favorite music for free. That system doesn't work.

 

[geoffpeters]

I agree, but that would be a negative statement. If you read all of Bloomberg's statements, she kept it positive, talking about the benefits of the new deal without criticizing the students or the station.

All she really had to do was lay out the financials: How much the university was paying, and how all of those costs will now be handled by Ideastream. If people could see those numbers, they'd understand. Especially given the financial situation at the university. Big mistake in my opinion.

even better way to say it...It seems like they are hiding the reason of wanting to be out behind "internships"

 

[TheBigA]

even better way to say it...It seems like they are hiding the reason of wanting to be out behind "internships"

Internships are a documentable, quantifiable academic entity. Colleges understand internships. They don't understand broadcasting. There is a documentable connection between those internships and students getting jobs. They can quantify that in ways they can't with a student radio station. A student radio station is a club, not an academic activity. The students don't get credit for their time at the radio station. They will at Ideastream. There will be teaching taking place at Ideastream. When you're a university that has to decide between academics and activities, they have to choose academics.

The students at the station don't care about the internships because most of them aren't interested in radio as a career. Most of them are there because of the music. They should be getting internships in the music business. That might be more relevant for them. People think radio is part of the music business, and it's not. I know that for a fact.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Ideastream has a plan to pay for the station, and the university is losing money.

If the backlash is as strong as the media has portrayed it to be though, the whole thing could backfire on Ideastream if enough donors are angry about it, and if sponsors want to disassociate themselves with the organization during the PR storm.

If the pro-student forces understand this, they could capitalize on it by protesting Ideastream, negatively imaging them as a classist organization that doesn't care about the working class college or its students, but instead caters to the rich. Public broadcasters tend to attract a healthy percentage of liberal donors who probably would not like that sort of thing.

 

[geoffpeters]

Internships are a documentable, quantifiable academic entity. Colleges understand internships. They don't understand broadcasting. There is a documentable connection between those internships and students getting jobs. They can quantify that in ways they can't with a student radio station. A student radio station is a club, not an academic activity. The students don't get credit for their time at the radio station. They will at Ideastream. There will be teaching taking place at Ideastream. When you're a university that has to decide between academics and activities, they have to choose academics.

The students at the station don't care about the internships because most of them aren't interested in radio as a career. Most of them are there because of the music. They should be getting internships in the music business. That might be more relevant for them. People think radio is part of the music business, and it's not. I know that for a fact.

I hear what you are saying...but the cynical part of me thinks CSU doesn't want CSB any more and is using this as a way to justify it...they could easily create some kind of internship program without giving away WCSB

 

[TheBigA]

If the backlash is as strong as the media has portrayed it to be though, the whole thing could backfire on Ideastream if enough donors are angry about it, and if sponsors want to disassociate themselves with the organization during the PR storm.

All this does is force the university to sell the station to a religious broadcaster. Try to understand that the university doesn't have the money to pay for a radio station anymore. No more gravy train. It's over. Complaining about it won't change that basic fact. Making Ideastream the enemy hurts creative radio even more, and gives more power to the religious ideologues who have lots of money and don't care about student radio. Especially now, with the federal government shutting down CPB. There is no magic money tree. Advertisers are going away. The government is gone. Who will pay so you can listen to free music?

 

[TheBigA]

I hear what you are saying...but the cynical part of me thinks CSU doesn't want CSB any more and is using this as a way to justify it...they could easily create some kind of internship program without giving away WCSB

Where does the money come from???? Once again, this university is in financial trouble. They have to decide between teachers and a radio station. They decided to keep the teachers and get rid of the radio station. How much more basic does it get? The university couldn't afford the station's faculty advisor anymore. He was asked to retire. These are all documented facts. The university is looking to sell their downtown sports arena. They're selling their president's home. They're trying to stay afloat, while putting the best face on a bad situation. While the students are protesting, the university is in deep trouble. How much clearer does this have to be?

This is the same university that we're talking about:

What should happen to CSU's Wolstein Center? Redevelop or demolish? University asks for ideas.

It has hosted thousands of basketball games, concerts for David Bowie, Janet Jackson and Justin Bieber, and even helped administer more than 260,000 COVID-19 vaccines.

www.news5cleveland.com

While you're worrying about a radio station, the same university is trying to figure out what to do with its sports arena,

 

[geoffpeters]

Where does the money come from???? Once again, this university is in financial trouble. They have to decide between teachers and a radio station. They decided to keep the teachers and get rid of the radio station. How much more basic does it get? The university couldn't afford the station's faculty advisor anymore. He was asked to retire. These are all documented facts. The university is looking to sell their downtown sports arena. They're selling their president's home. They're trying to stay afloat, while putting the best face on a bad situation. While the students are protesting, the university is in deep trouble. How much clearer does this have to be?

This is the same university that we're talking about:

What should happen to CSU's Wolstein Center? Redevelop or demolish? University asks for ideas.

It has hosted thousands of basketball games, concerts for David Bowie, Janet Jackson and Justin Bieber, and even helped administer more than 260,000 COVID-19 vaccines.

www.news5cleveland.com

While you're worrying about a radio station, the same university is trying to figure out what to do with its sports arena,

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, bc I think we agree. I'm saying the Uni saying that they are doing this for the reason of internships and not because they see WCSB as a financial burden not worth having isn't flying. No mistake-CSU is financial straits and is looking to cut costs

 

[geoffpeters]

If the backlash is as strong as the media has portrayed it to be though, the whole thing could backfire on Ideastream if enough donors are angry about it, and if sponsors want to disassociate themselves with the organization during the PR storm.

If the pro-student forces understand this, they could capitalize on it by protesting Ideastream, negatively imaging them as a classist organization that doesn't care about the working class college or its students, but instead caters to the rich. Public broadcasters tend to attract a healthy percentage of liberal donors who probably would not like that sort of thing.

Interesting question. Obviously people are pissed, but how much of this is social media generated, which if you look at the posts is starting to shrink to the same 15 to 20 posters? Ideastream covers a lot of ground. While I'm sure there are some people throughout the coverage area who don't like what went down...are people in Hudson or Akron or Bay Village really fired up enough about WCSB going away to cancel memberships? Time will tell.

 

[TheBigA]

Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly, bc I think we agree. I'm saying the Uni saying that they are doing this for the reason of internships and not because they see WCSB as a financial burden not worth having isn't flying. No mistake-CSU is financial straits and is looking to cut costs

Yep, the reason nobody cares about internships is the students aren't interested in radio as a career. They do radio because of the music. That's also what the protests are about. The locals don't care about the students. They like the music.

 

[inter1097]

There's no guarantee those internship deals will be around in a couple years anyhow. Is there any radio related jobs/internships Ideastream can offer that won't eventually be taken over by AI? I think that's part of the reason students are calling BS on those internships. Feels like smoke in mirrors.

 

[TheBigA]

There's no guarantee those internship deals will be around in a couple years anyhow. Is there any radio related jobs/internships Ideastream can offer that won't eventually be taken over by AI? I think that's part of the reason students are calling BS on those internships. Feels like smoke in mirrors.

It's all in the contract. The university still owns the license. If Ideastream doesn't deliver, the university can hold the license.

If there's no future in radio, then the university should just shut down the station. Why waste time & money on something that has no future?

 

[inter1097]

Then why in the world did Bloomberg said this decision wasn't financial?

I feel for the staff. They shouldn't be called ungrateful, toxic, etc when they are being lied to why the station is shutdown.


sidenote: I saw a story on facebook told by one of the DJ's about a 90 a year old German native living in CLE that listened to the German ethnic show on CSB. (maybe the DJ's mom's friend? Somebody she knew) The program brought back memories for when this elderly woman lived in Germany and such. She thought the reason the show stopped was the government shutdown and was patiently waiting for it to come back. if I heard correctly, Ideastream was going to look into bringing certain ethnic shows back, so I really hope something can be remedied

Before someone says internet station, I've said a few times I supported that idea, and I really hope XCSB can get online, but I do wonder the shelf life of internet stations as well. Not even John Gorman could keep oWow afloat

 

[TheBigA]

Then why in the world did Bloomberg said this decision wasn't financial?

Sue her.

I feel for the staff. They shouldn't be called ungrateful, toxic, etc when they are being lied to why the station is shutdown.

Who is calling the students "ungrateful toxic?"