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WCSB Flips to Jazz

No. That's how the CSU defines it. It's a club, paid for by the student activity fee. It may be different at other colleges.



The station is not tied to an academic program at the university. So no, they didn't receive college credit, and no it wasn't job training. It was a club. The student GM was very honest and said she's not even majoring in communications.

I can tell you as someone who spent 4 years on the air at my college's student station, NONE of that experience was helpful in getting a job in the industry. If anything, it's a negative. Because there simply aren't any commercial stations that allow you to play your personal music taste on the air. That's why they're better off getting practical experience from an internship at Ideastream than playing radio at WCSB.
This is how it works at the university where I work, too. The broadcasting program is separate to the student radio/TV station, which is just a 'society' attached to the student's union, with pretty basic facilities and shows where students play their personal selections (which, weirdly, often seems to be 20-year-old indie tracks from when I was 20, move on kids!) and talk mostly nonsense on the air.

The broadcasting department has its own separate studio facilities (TV and radio) which are more professionally oriented, students have to put together and present a 'real' day of news and talk broadcast programs each week, and students are also required to go out and get an internship at a real broadcaster to complete their degree. We're lucky to have a few major broadcasters in the region where a lot end up.

As for community participation - in the 2000s a few UK student stations (historically internet-only, and before that carrier current) went for FM licenses, but as part of that they had to agree to requirements to let 'the community' participate in the station, meaning outside volunteers, to avoid having a scarce city FM slot taken up with what would otherwise just be an internal radio station for campus. Most have since given up and gone back to internet-only, because the costs of having to maintain facility access to outsiders, and the sense that the students were effectively subsidising a hobby for non-students from town, got too much.
 
Most have since given up and gone back to internet-only, because the costs of having to maintain facility access to outsiders, and the sense that the students were effectively subsidising a hobby for non-students from town, got too much.

I think that's really what the issue is here. The university president has muddied the waters by saying it wasn't. But the fact is that Ideastream takes over all expenses related to the station, with the operation based off campus, and they handle all community relations.
 
I've found this discussion about WCSB to be both fascinating and frustrating — to the point that it's made me move from long-time lurking to posting here for the very first time. Because this back & forth over WCSB truly gets to the heart of our shared love of radio — a love that some of us define in strikingly different ways. For some folks here, radio is a business, one with deep and longstanding cultural connections, as well as no less interesting technical aspects, but ultimately still a business. For other folks, radio is a creative medium, one whose potential is all too often wasted, and whose most interesting programming has almost always arisen despite it being a business — or in some cases precisely because of that tension. Arguing about WCSB is really a stand-in for these two opposed ways of thinking. It's why losing WCSB feels so painful to some, while being a positive move — or utterly irrelevant — to others.

With that in mind, I'd like to get back to the facts — what's actually happened on the airwaves as well as on the ground in Cleveland — because so much of this debate's heated aspects have centered around caricatures that bare little relation to reality. And however you end up defining your passion for all things radio, we're still part of the same larger tribe. If you've ever tried to discuss transmitter sites and ERP in mixed company, you know this all too well!

First, Cleveland State University: Some of the folks posting here have imagined the school as full of privileged upper middle-class kids oblivious to the world beyond their little campus bubble and taking that attitude with them to its radio station, WCSB. There are plenty of schools with radio stations like this — and yes, they're embarrassing to hear — but Cleveland State University isn't one of them.

CSU is largely seen by locals as, rightly or wrongly, being one step above a community college. It's where you go if you don't have a lot of money, or don't want to leave Cleveland, and you also still want or simply need a degree. Very few attend CSU to "find themselves" or explore the liberal arts. It's common for students to take a semester off, or even a year or more off, before later returning to school. Some don't even start at CSU until long after they've graduated high school. And it's a commuter school. Plenty are working while taking classes, often in non-campus jobs. In fact, the campus itself is kind of grim — it's basically just a bunch of buildings in downtown Cleveland. Forget about ivy-covered classical structures and bucolic fields of green. This is old-school Cleveland in every sense. It also helps explain the nature of the Ideastream deal: on-air publicity at Ideastream's NPR and PBS TV stations instead of cash. CSU is in serious financial trouble and its board clearly believes the way out is to rebrand the school as a more upscale and desirable choice for wealthier families to send their kids — kids who are currently going to say, Kent State University in Kent, Ohio University in Athens, or Ohio State in Columbus.

To reiterate, the students who have been on the air at WCSB tend to be a bit older and already part of the social fabric of the city. That means DJs with a deeper musical knowledge and life experience to draw from. The station has also always seen its listening audience as the greater Cleveland area, not just students — who, again, live all over that same greater Cleveland area. As noted by airwaves_dream, keeping alumni on the air makes perfect sense in this context. It's also part of what enriches the programming and builds listening audiences. I started listening to WCSB in the early '90s, and I can tell you that the size of their citywide audience (as well as the one for WRUW, which also features a mix of student and alumni DJs) has historically always been far larger than the college radio audience in almost any other burg (besides Boston). That's also why there's been so much local pushback about the Ideastream PSOA.

We've seen these kinds of deals for the past 15 years or so now, where a school either sells or hands off the operation of their station to an NPR affiliate. But in no other city — not even in liberal San Francisco with the sale of KUSF — have we seen this kind of uproar from not only angry listeners, but widespread, continued coverage and condemnation from the local media and government officials. That speaks to the reach and impact of college radio in Cleveland. You've got reporters and city council members who regularly tune in, not just a handful of hipsters.

I understand that for some folks here who have little interest in college radio, or in any kind of non-commercial radio, the drama at WCSB produces little more than a shrug. All I would ask is that, as fybush wrote, you please remember that there are other people here at Radio Discussions who love everything about radio just as much as you do, but who don't understand why there can't also be a few places on the FM dial for stations like WCSB with DJs who cherish the idea of radio as a forum for creative experimentation and free expression, in whatever way you want to define that. We're all here together playing online in this same digital sandbox. So let's try to, ahem, not pee in it, ok?
 
All I would ask is that, as fybush wrote, you please remember that there are other people here at Radio Discussions who love everything about radio just as much as you do, but who don't understand why there can't also be a few places on the FM dial for stations like WCSB with DJs who cherish the idea of radio as a forum for creative experimentation and free expression, in whatever way you want to define that. We're all here together playing online in this same digital sandbox. So let's try to, ahem, not pee in it, ok?

Great post! I respect everything you say. I've been a very vocal supporter of student run college radio since I started posting here. In that time, I've watched dozens of colleges reach this point. The bottom line is once a college has decided to get out of the radio business, there's no turning back. They've made the decision, they discussed it with the board of directors, and they're not going back. The only choice is how they dispose of the station. Most of the time, they sell it to a religious organization. The other choice is to make a deal with the local NPR station. That's what they did here. Should they have opened the discussion to other operators? Perhaps. But none of them have the resources of Ideastream. At least not in Cleveland.

Over a year ago, the University announced it had a $40 million budget gap. At that time, they said their current situation was not sustainable. They said they were on the road to closure. That should have been a warning to the station that they were likely going to get sold. Then last summer, the university asked the station's faculty advisor to retire. That was the second warning sign. Apparently nobody at the station saw the signs. College radio is under threat everywhere because it's expensive to maintain, and there's declining student interest. Someone at the station should have seen the signs and started preparing for this kind of thing.

Here's the reality: The university is not going back to the way it was. They may be forced to accept other offers. But they're done as the owner of a radio station, and there's nothing anyone can do to force them to own a radio station. This is a school that's financially struggling. They can't afford to continue. If there's another non-profit that could handle the expenses, such as another school, the city, anyone else, let them speak now. But things aren't going back the way they were. not matter how many people protest. What I don't want to see is for the station get sold to VCY or another religious group. That would be the most horrible death I could imagine. Right now I don't see another option.
 
I would say the problem began with how the station was transferred. The longtime shows should had a better farewell. Playing monday morning quarterback Ideastream might have allowed a final show amid an interview with the host. I doubt there would be a need for damage control is the changeover had been done more gracefully.
 
Here's the reality: The university is not going back to the way it was. They may be forced to accept other offers. But they're done as the owner of a radio station, and there's nothing anyone can do to force them to own a radio station. This is a school that's financially struggling. They can't afford to continue. If there's another non-profit that could handle the expenses, such as another school, the city, anyone else, let them speak now. But things aren't going back the way they were. not matter how many people protest. What I don't want to see is for the station get sold to VCY or another religious group. That would be the most horrible death I could imagine. Right now I don't see another option.
And that is the real story.

With over the air radio in decline insofar as time spent listening among middle age and older adults and nearly non-existent among youth and younger adults, it seems that the defenders of this radio station's rather traditional block programming should be working to see what they can come up with as a use for new media to preserve traditional block programming.

The biggest issue I see is that the obvious answer in the new world is podcasting. But most of the station's former programming involved interesting and sometimes innovative music shows. We know that podcasting for music is almost cost-prohibitive.

Given the new realities of royalties, listener preferences and audio in general, what can "these folks" come up with that is not just protests about their rather obsolete system of distribution having been shut off to them?
 
I would say the problem began with how the station was transferred. The longtime shows should had a better farewell. Playing monday morning quarterback Ideastream might have allowed a final show amid an interview with the host. I doubt there would be a need for damage control is the changeover had been done more gracefully.

It's not Ideastream's call. They're just following what the university wanted. The university is still the owner. Ideastream is a contract operator. If the university wanted the students to have another day or week, they wouldn't have brought in the campus police. If the university wanted to put the student station on an HD-2, or wanted to continue the ethnic shows, they could have written it into the contract. They didn't. The university was done. Over. Finished.
 
We've seen these kinds of deals for the past 15 years or so now, where a school either sells or hands off the operation of their station to an NPR affiliate. But in no other city — not even in liberal San Francisco with the sale of KUSF — have we seen this kind of uproar from not only angry listeners, but widespread, continued coverage and condemnation from the local media and government officials. That speaks to the reach and impact of college radio in Cleveland. You've got reporters and city council members who regularly tune in, not just a handful of hipsters.
I agree with nearly all of your points.

As a native Clevelander, with family still there, I can appreciate the perception of "widespread" condemnation. However, on so many occasions in my 6+ decades in radio I have seen tiny but well directed groups create a much louder bang than their numbers really represent.

My point in this kind of "oh, but that format is so much needed" argument is that 90% or more of the protesters never listened.
 
What happened to WCSB is part of the larger debate over the future of broadcast radio. The dependable world of ad-supported radio is drying up. The alternative had been public radio, but then the government cut the funding to CPB. So now public stations are cutting staff. Universities are seeing the state and federal government cutting back on funding. Here are a few articles about how cuts in funding are affecting Ohio colleges:




Ohio legislators are cutting aid to state colleges and universities. The schools have to choose between academics and activities such as radio stations.

People who love diverse programming on the radio need to think about ways to pay for it, because a lot of the funding is drying up.
 
If this Sunshine law does go in effect, you don't think the Board of Trustees will vote differently knowing the spotlight is on them, and knowing the fallout from the first vote?

Even if the station is losing CSU money, CSU could lose MORE money Not having the station thanks to this fallout, by leaving a disdain for potential students that would have applied there, and CSU might find out they didn't want "out of the radio business" as bad as they thought they did.
=
 
What happened to WCSB is part of the larger debate over the future of broadcast radio. The dependable world of ad-supported radio is drying up. The alternative had been public radio, but then the government cut the funding to CPB. So now public stations are cutting staff. Universities are seeing the state and federal government cutting back on funding. Here are a few articles about how cuts in funding are affecting Ohio colleges:


NPR is losing federal funding too.. which makes this Million dollar donation from the Fowlers a little more ugh.. interesting. The timing between this and the takeover is very uncanny.
 
If this Sunshine law does go in effect, you don't think the Board of Trustees will vote differently knowing the spotlight is on them, and knowing the fallout from the first vote?

No. They made a decision, they signed a contract, and it's over. If they get sued by someone, the only requirement would be for them to open it to other proposals from other potential operators. But they have decided to get out of the radio business. It's one of many similar things they're getting out of, including owning the president's home and the arena. They're losing money. They said that a year ago.
Even if the station is losing CSU money, CSU could lose MORE money Not having the station thanks to this fallout, by leaving a disdain for potential students that would have applied there, and CSU might find out they didn't want "out of the radio business" as bad as they thought they did.

Potential students don't listen to FM radio. It's also why only a handful of students took part in the station. That's why they're getting out of radio.

NPR is losing federal funding too.. which makes this Million dollar donation from the Fowlers a little more ugh.. interesting. The timing between this and the takeover is very uncanny.

The timing is related to the funding crisis at the university. As I said, the university is shutting down a number of things to deal with its own funding crisis. If something was improper, don't you think the state would weigh in on this? Maybe offer to pay for a student radio station?
 
Then why not do it now? People operate web radio stations in their spare bedrooms. You don't need a 20th century radio studio to do it. The other issue is allowing non-students on university property, and engaging in what is supposed to be a student organization. The expense of that studio is partly why the university wanted to get out of radio.

The one correct point is that the studio was not part of the deal with Ideastream. That facility was retained by the university. If they want to be a community organization, the way to do it is to leave university property. Talk to the city council about giving them space in one of the city libraries. That's how it's been done in other cities.

I have been meaning to comment on this post and others both in this thread and elsewhere for a while now but I keep putting it off. There are a couple of very good reasons for the manager and her followers to seek the return of WCSB-FM's operations to them. Both regard listenership and costs.

1) Most people still listen to the radio over listening to Internet streams. It is possible that this will change in the future, but if you look at the radio ratings reports for the various cities that Lance posts on radioinsight.com, you will see that in instances where both the station's over-the-air numbers and streaming numbers are reported separately, the percentages for over-the-air listening are much higher than Internet listening. This makes absolute sense because of 2) below.
2) While there are costs for both over-the-air transmitting and Internet streaming, the cost for over-the-air transmissions are fixed; that is, they do not rise or fall based on the number of listeners to the station. Streaming costs, on the other hand, are variable in that the station has to pay a fee for each additional listener. While this applies to SoundExchange, I believe )please correct me if I'm wrong) that this also applies to things such as bandwidth as well.

It's no wonder then, as I've pointed out at the top, why the former WCSB-FM manager is pursuing the avenues she's pursuing. It is possible that if I had been in her position that I would have followed the same steps she has.
 
1) Most people still listen to the radio over listening to Internet streams. It is possible that this will change in the future, but if you look at the radio ratings reports for the various cities that Lance posts on radioinsight.com, you will see that in instances where both the station's over-the-air numbers and streaming numbers are reported separately, the percentages for over-the-air listening are much higher than Internet listening. This makes absolute sense because of 2) below.

The problem with the Nielsen numbers is they don't show Sirius, Spotify, Apple, and all the various non broadcast streaming services. So it's based on a false reality. If you were to insert those other sources, you'd see a very different picture. If you look at Cleveland, the most popular broadcast stations are those that target older listeners. That should be an indication for the demographics of broadcast radio. In the case of WCSB, it's a station that is paid for primarily by a university and a student activity fee. We know that usage of broadcast radio by people in their 20s is very low. So if I'm a college student who wants to reach people my age, the use of FM is probably not the first choice.

2) While there are costs for both over-the-air transmitting and Internet streaming, the cost for over-the-air transmissions are fixed; that is, they do not rise or fall based on the number of listeners to the station. Streaming costs, on the other hand, are variable in that the station has to pay a fee for each additional listener. While this applies to SoundExchange, I believe )please correct me if I'm wrong) that this also applies to things such as bandwidth as well.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The costs for everything are rising. If you're talking about music royalties, they are negotiated for both broadcasting and digital, and consequently, they are rising in both places. Let me remind you of this story from August:


These higher rates apply to non-commercial educational radio as well as commercial. These are royalties paid by the licensee, which is the university. They will now be covered by Ideastream. So that's another expense that the university no longer has to pay. However, the fact that the university didn't automatically volunteer to start an online station for the students tells me they aren't looking to pay those expenses moving forward. If the students want to start an online station, they would have to cover those royalties. Ideastream has the benefit of having its music royalties negotiated by CPB, and they just announced they will continue to pay music royalties through 2027. CSU isn't part of CPB, so they aren't part of that new deal.

The problem here is the student GM doesn't know the real expense of running a radio station. She lives in an educational bubble where the university paid for a lot of the operational costs, such as rent, utilities, maintenance, and insurance. That's probably not a problem at private universities. But as I pointed out earlier, the state universities are hurting from cuts in state and federal funding. CSU in particular announced a $40 million budget shortfall, and they're looking to cut non-academic costs. Operating a broadcast radio station is one of them.
 
Let's talk about the audience for WCSB. Earlier in this thread, someone pointed out that nobody really knows how many people listened to the student station. That's true, because from what I can tell, WCSB didn't encode its signal for Nielsen PPM. If you look at the Cleveland Nielsen ratings, only one college owned station appears, and that's WKSU, owned by Kent State, but programmed by Ideastream.


However, if you look at the New York City Nielsen numbers, you'll see a lot of college stations, including several student run stations, such as WSOU from Seton Hall. That station was programmed with a format that was very similar to the old WCSB. So its very possible that you can get an indication of what the audience was for WCSB.


You should notice that the student-run radio stations attract far less audience than the professionally run non-coms. Part of this is because the formats at the student run stations aren't as consistent as the professionally run stations. Part of it is because the music policies aren't researched to the degree as the professionally run stations. Some will point to that as being part of the charm of those stations. But the results don't lie.

At the end of the day, someone has to pay for these radio stations. If you're talking about a college like Seton Hall that has a strong communications department with a lot of students studying media, then owning a radio station makes sense. If you're a small state college that doesn't have a strong academic interest in broadcasting, which is true of CSU, then the expense is harder to justify. Especially given the current financial situation at CSU. Ideastream will do a better job of programming WCSB in terms of reaching an identifiable audience than the students. And they'll do a better job of attracting funding than the students.
 
I wonder if the inevitable transience of the student broadcasters hurts these stations to an extent? You're rarely going to have someone on there for more than four years, if they join in fresher's week and stay through their entire degree. They disappear out of term time (our station goes off the air altogether during academic vacation periods, which add up to more than half the calendar year).

The whole station is constantly in flux with shows moving around, students no longer able to keep to a time slot because their classes changed, students graduating or just getting bored and leaving. Even allowing for an eclectic schedule, you're never going to have a consistent station sound across even a period of a few months with student radio. A listener tuning in who doesn't know if they'll get a sports show or hardcore drum'n'bass in a given timeslot week to week isn't a listener for long.
 


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