560

[Mark Roberts]

Attaboy, @Weiserguy ! And while we're at it, it's the Fog City Diner, the Nimitz Freeway and Long's Drugs, dammit!

Get me Van Amburg and Herb Caen! We'll get this straightened out.

What is this, the Terence Hallinan Memorial? (Speaking of punchy....)

KCBS does sound good for an AM. And I'm just enough of the right kind of geek to admit that their top-of-the-hour sounds a lot punchier on the AM than it does the FM. More aggressive compression.

When the simulcast first started...in 2008...which means it's been going for more than 17 years...there was a lot of discussion on Usenet's ba.broadcast about the processing on the FM signal. Namely, there didn't seem to be much of it, about on the level of KQED-FM. There was also some consternation about the station's deciding to remain in stereo, but that's a separate topic. Over time, the processing has been beefed up somewhat on the FM. On the AM, you may also be hearing the effects of aggressive AGC in the receiver. Most DSP-based radios seem to have aggressive gain on AM, which punches up the dynamic range compression. Tecsun radios seem to be especially prone to this, so much so that a combination of station processing and receiver AGC causes the audio to pump in and out on some stations. A few years, back when I was visiting Sacramento regularly for work, I noticed this on the station at 890.

The AM audio frequency response is limited to 10 kHz, so that also means processing doesn't have to take into account frequencies above that limit. That might make the AM version of the audio sound louder, at the cost of losing a little sizzle, to use a technical term.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Because the write-off value won't change in 60-ish days, and in that time, although it's unlikely for the reasons stated above, someone with more money than sense might make them a more profitable offer.

One of the advantages of running Linux:

atlas:/home/mark% dateutils.ddiff today 2026-03-04
57
(days)

When can we create an advent calendar for 560?
atlas:/home/mark% dateutils.dadd 2026-03-04 -24d
2026-02-08

 

[michael hagerty]

Or...they can just donate it to someone for a a tax write off.

Is it too far fetched to give it to the CHRS in Alameda, and through donations put it back on the air with a longwire or drop down antenna somewhere.

Broadcast nostalgic programming like the internet feeds of KABL and KYA online. A fun project that would welcome volunteers.

Hey, a person can at least dream right?

I'm just a member and volunteer, so I can't speak for the Society, but...


we already got one:

https://radiosausalito.org/RS1570AlamedaPR.pdf

 

[KilowattKat]

I'm just a member and volunteer, so I can't speak for the Society, but...


we already got one:

https://radiosausalito.org/RS1570AlamedaPR.pdf

Even better, move Radio Sausalito from a part 15 to 560. 'Radio San Francisco - Foot Stompin Jazz'.

 

[michael hagerty]

Even better, move Radio Sausalito from a part 15 to 560. 'Radio San Francisco - Foot Stompin Jazz'.

Again, I can't speak for the Society, the Museum or Radio Sausalito, but I imagine the costs of running 560 would be significantly greater. It's easy to say "have donations pay for it"---it's a lot harder when you're already donor-funded. I don't know the inner workings, but I know the people and I guarantee you, nobody's leaving money lying on a table.

That said---if someone were to do it, rather than KYA or KABL, it really should be golden-age KSFO, don't you think?

 

[TomásEstefan]

Just one guy's opinion: I have KGO -- (no, I won't) -- and KNBR close enough to my house that I can see their sticks from my bedroom, but they sound like crap on the best of my radios. But I can also hear KCBS from Novato on those same radios, and can also hear it via KFRC-FM, and I actually prefer the sound of the AM better. Maybe this is a byproduct of hearing loss -- aside from all the headphone listening and audio work I've done over a lifetime, I also had the great good fortune to grow up under the final approach path to JFK runway 22L, in the days of Boeing 707's and DC8's, so tinnitus has become my regular companion -- but KCBS-AM just has a cleaner, more clear, more resonant sound that the other AM's no longer have. Make of that what you will.

You are right about KCBS audio- find yourself a GE Superadio, tune in 740, switch the tuner to the AM wideband mode, and voilà! You have hi-fi audio. I'm down here in LA and KCBS is strong enough at night for us to experience the same quality!

 

[michael hagerty]

You are right about KCBS audio- find yourself a GE Superadio, tune in 740, switch the tuner to the AM wideband mode, and voilà! You have hi-fi audio. I'm down here in LA and KCBS is strong enough at night for us to experience the same quality!

Stan Bunger and I have been working together, along with @BossRadioDJ , on cataloging the audio archives at the CHRS museum, and he has mentioned his admiration for the engineering staff at KCBS. There are some real pros in that house.

 

[Weiserguy]

Stan Bunger and I have been working together, along with @BossRadioDJ , on cataloging the audio archives at the CHRS museum, and he has mentioned his admiration for the engineering staff at KCBS. There are some real pros in that house.

If I might ask, which weekday(s) do you tend to show up there? I would like to experience the place at least once before I fully Trumpify.

 

[Mark Roberts]

You are right about KCBS audio- find yourself a GE Superadio, tune in 740, switch the tuner to the AM wideband mode, and voilà! You have hi-fi audio. I'm down here in LA and KCBS is strong enough at night for us to experience the same quality!

Actually, a Superadio III, the model sold from about 1993 onward. The older the III, the better. It's also more plasticky than its predecessors, the Superadio and the Superadio II. Those two are beautifully made. You can get a good argument started by claiming one version of the Superadio is better than the other two.

I will say that my Superadio and Superadio II did the best job of picking up the stations farthest away from me in Denver that I could pick up in the daytime: KXXX Colby, KS and, before it literally blew away last month, KLOE in Goodland, KS.

 

[michael hagerty]

If I might ask, which weekday(s) do you tend to show up there? I would like to experience the place at least once before I fully Trumpify.

Most Saturdays, including this coming one. Should be there by 11. Downstairs, near the elevator at the front of the building, there's a conference table and if you see two guys hunched over laptops and reels of tapes, one of 'em's me and the other one's Stan. David Ferrell Jackson might be there too. Absolutely introduce yourself---it'd be great to meet you.

If you can't do this Saturday, send me a PM when you plan to come and I can let you know if I'm there that week or not.

 

[davideduardo]

Or...they can just donate it to someone for a a tax write off.

Again, a write off can only be for the depreciated and amortized value of the station as I said, that AM was likely “on the books” at a very low value. Still, that is a possibility if the legal costs are not greater than the book value of the station.

Is it too far fetched to give it to the CHRS in Alameda, and through donations put it back on the air with a longwire or drop down antenna somewhere.

Fybush question: for how long can a station be allowed to use such an antenna? I know that WOSO in San Juan managed to keep the license alive with a wire, hung off the side of a condominium for at least three years (even though the station was not even on the air, they never advised the FCC as far as I can tell).

Broadcast nostalgic programming like the internet feeds of KABL and KYA online. A fun project that would welcome volunteers.

I thoroughly doubt that volunteers could sustain the cost of operating such a station long. This is not an LPFM and has a much higher scale of costs.

 

[KilowattKat]

If I might ask, which weekday(s) do you tend to show up there? I would like to experience the place at least once before I fully Trumpify.

Fully Trumpify? Let's see, does that mean before you....

Die your hair orange.
Tell lies, and post inaccurate info.
Invade and take over your neighbors' house.
Show signs of cognitive and mental decline.
Make personal attacks on people you disagree with.

I don't think we want to see you Trumpified. 😉

 

[fybush]

Again, a write off can only be for the depreciated and amortized value of the station as I said, that AM was likely “on the books” at a very low value. Still, that is a possibility if the legal costs are not greater than the book value of the station.

Fybush question: for how long can a station be allowed to use such an antenna? I know that WOSO in San Juan managed to keep the license alive with a wire, hung off the side of a condominium for at least three years (even though the station was not even on the air, they never advised the FCC as far as I can tell).

I thoroughly doubt that volunteers could sustain the cost of operating such a station long. This is not an LPFM and has a much higher scale of costs.

At this point, pretty much indefinitely.

The Media Bureau understands the challenges in rebuilding AM facilities these days and gives STA holders a pretty long leash.

But there's no guarantee that informal policy will continue forever, so that's always a risk a station takes with extended STA operation.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

What would be the monthly (minimum) operation cost to put on a keep 560 on the air and the question is:

Can it be covered by revenue? Or...Is it an effort in futility?

 

[cc333]

I don't think we want to see you Trumpified. 😉

AGREED!

Why would any sane person want to Trumpify themselves? *shiver*

What would be the monthly (minimum) operation cost to put on a keep 560 on the air and the question is:

Can it be covered by revenue? Or...Is it an effort in futility?

Most of the expert participants (particularly @davideduardo , who sums it up pretty well up in post #831) in this thread seem to agree that it's pretty much an effort in futility, sadly.

I think the Radio Sausalito partnership potentially holds much more promise, though I wouldn't mind also hearing an oldies formatted CHRS station in addition, maybe on a different frequency (Ooooo, I could help develop that format maybe! That would be fun! I can even loan my transmitter, if cost is a concern)

That said, I like Jazz and Big Band too, so I'm OK with the current arrangement.

Actually, a Superadio III, the model sold from about 1993 onward. The older the III, the better. It's also more plasticky than its predecessors, the Superadio and the Superadio II. Those two are beautifully made. You can get a good argument started by claiming one version of the Superadio is better than the other two.

I have a Superadio III, and I like it. It could probably stand to be aligned a bit better (I bought it used a few years ago), but it works well enough as is, so I haven't bothered to do anything except feeding it batteries.

Is that the only one with the wideband mode? At least on my III, even narrow band AM sounds rather good with the nice, big speaker and tweeter (first seen in the II, I think).

c

 

[Mark Roberts]

I have a Superadio III, and I like it. It could probably stand to be aligned a bit better (I bought it used a few years ago), but it works well enough as is, so I haven't bothered to do anything except feeding it batteries.

The older, the better. And avoid any that has the RCA logo.

Is that the only one with the wideband mode?

Yes.

At least on my III, even narrow band AM sounds rather good with the nice, big speaker and tweeter (first seen in the II, I think).

The separate tweeter and woofer were first in the II. All models had tone controls.

While there is a bandwidth filter, I don't think it was as sharp as they are on currently offered radios. The rolloff in frequency response is gentler and, at least for me, easier to tolerate as a result.

One minor problem with the first two models is the headphone jack, which is a true mono jack. Plugging in a typical stereo headphone to one of those jacks these days will get you audio output only on the left channel. The jack is recessed enough to where some mono-to-stereo adapters won't fit.

The FM performance isn't as selective as modern radios, but the AM is quite good.

Honestly, I wish I had had one back when there were reasonable choices on AM and the FM band wasn't crowded with secondary services like it is now. But working in radio news was not the path to wealth or even small, occasional luxuries, so I had to play catch-up years later.

 

[K108 Sacramento]

560 Should be bought by Family Radio.

 

[Weiserguy]

Most Saturdays, including this coming one. Should be there by 11. Downstairs, near the elevator at the front of the building, there's a conference table and if you see two guys hunched over laptops and reels of tapes, one of 'em's me and the other one's Stan. David Ferrell Jackson might be there too. Absolutely introduce yourself---it'd be great to meet you.

If you can't do this Saturday, send me a PM when you plan to come and I can let you know if I'm there that week or not.

I don't know yet if this coming Saturday will work, but if it's doable, I'll find you there. (I might even explain my "Trumpify" comment. 🤣 )

 

[michael hagerty]

I think the Radio Sausalito partnership potentially holds much more promise,

Okay, hang on a second.

First, Cumulus isn't going to donate 560 to CHRS. That's on nobody's radar.

Second---and this is public knowledge, published in this week's CHRS newsletter---the museum is a third of the way to its mutli-year capital campaign goal of raising one million dollars for its vision of the next phase of exhibits and education at Radio Central (2025 was a good year...the projection was that we would only be a quarter of the way there by year's end).

CHRS Capital Campaign - California Historical Radio Society

Join our CAPITAL CAMPAIGN to help the California Historical Radio Society (CHRS) build for the future!

californiahistoricalradio.com

Moving Radio Sausalito to 560 would simply increase the costs of that service, and any efforts to fundraise to cover those costs would likely take donations away from the CHRS capital campaign.

Let's get back to likely outcomes for 560. And I'm sticking with the license getting turned in.

 

[KilowattKat]

Okay, hang on a second.

First, Cumulus isn't going to donate 560 to CHRS. That's on nobody's radar


Let's get back to likely outcomes for 560. And I'm sticking with the license getting turned in.

Well of course not. Like I ended a post earlier by saying....a person can still dream, right? What's wrong with that?

Sometimes, I think we talke things too seriously around here.