HD Radio on the Way Out?

[yeoldeschool]

Well, here is one. I have the TV on in the background all the time that I am working, because about 80% of the WorldRadioHistory job is repetitive and boring.

Anybody archiving old radio publications should be listening to old radio programming.

Mystery Play Internet Radio - https://mpir-otr.com/
- Stream 1: Comedy - http://s3.voscast.com:8454/
- Stream 2: Mystery - http://s4.voscast.com:7080/
Antioch Broadcasting Network - https://radio.macinmind.com/
- Stream 1 - http://208.115.216.90:8000/listen
Yesterday USA - http://yesterdayusa.com/
- Stream 1: Red Network - https://media.classicairwaves.com:8020/stream
- Stream 2: Blue Network - https://media.classicairwaves.com:8018/stream
- Stream 3: Stay Tuned America - https://classicairwaves.com:8020/sta.mp3

Come to think of it, somebody with a massive personal collection of high quality, untelescoped airchecks should start a stream that plays them 24/7 the way streamers like these play OTR programming 24/7.

 

[davideduardo]

Larger markets use PPMs which is a more accurate method of quantifying audiences.

The old diaries were largely works of fiction, only providing a vague picture of reality.

Having been involved as "consultant" to Arbitron when they introduced their service in Mexico, I saw at the street level the diary process.

The biggest "problem" with the diary was not inaccurate entries in the diaries... it was that people tended to do a great job of showing what they listened to each day. But they rounded off times. "2 PM to 4 PM" instead of, really, 2:11 PM to 3:46 PM, with a 20 minute break around 3 PM to go for coffee.

When I was on the committee with Nielsen, Arbitron, and radio and TV representatives, we all got weekly CDs of the test results in Philadelphia and, later, the data for the "real" diary survey of the market. The two looked very similar... but: people in the diary survey tended to write in the listening to their "most favorite" stations accurately, but they often neglected writing down shorter listening periods to those secondary stations they might listen to just once or twice a week.

The PPM showed that "hidden" listening, and that was the principal cause of differences between the PPM and the diary.

 

[davideduardo]

The accuracy of ratings is overseen by the MRC, an outside firm.

And the Media Ratings Council is a non-profit entity assembled initially after FCC investigations into ratings about 65 years ago. It is primarily a group of people who come from the ad agency side of the advertising business, with a few from broadcasting. It has a full-time staff, all qualified in areas of statistics and procedures.

 

[blindowl1234]

That is an inaccurate interpretation of how the written diary system worked. In fact, a family or person recruited to fill in the diary was only "active" for 7 days, during which the would write in a detailed "diary" type booklet what they listened to , when they listened, and where they listened.

Studies have shown that the vast majority of participants give responses as accurately as they can.

The methodology is accurate enough to be accepted by an industry group made up mostly of people from the advertising industry... the ones who used that information to invest millions of dollars in radio ad buys.

In the biggest markets, Nielsen now has a "panel" that can have families / households participating for up to and sometimes over 2 years. Measurement is done by a passive device that detects what is being listened to through the detection of sub-audible codded data streams which can be broadcast as many as 12 times a minute, all day long. Participants get quite significant incentives.

Google AI says:

The Nielsen Personal Meter, also known as the Portable People Meter (PPM), works by detecting hidden audio codes embedded in broadcast audio signals from TV and radio stations. Panelists wear the device, which logs the codes to measure media consumption. The data is then sent to Nielsen, which combines it with other households' information to generate ratings.



How it works

• Audio-coding: Radio and TV stations embed inaudible, unique codes into their broadcasts.
• Detection: The wearable meter detects these codes in real-time when worn by a panelist.
• Logging: The device records which station was being listened to and for how long.
• Data transmission: The meter transmits the collected data to a base station at home, which sends it to Nielsen nightly.
• Data analysis: Nielsen combines the data from all participating households to create audience ratings for TV and radio.

How it's used by participants

• Wear the meter: To be counted, the participant must wear the device throughout their day.
• Keep it on: A blinking green light indicates the meter is working and recording.
• Charge it: The meter is placed on a base station overnight to charge and upload data.
• View messages: Tapping the screen allows participants to check messages and see how many points they have earned.
• Earn rewards: Participants earn points for consistently wearing the meter, which determines their monthly payment.
• Personal use: Each person in a participating household receives their own meter, and it is important to not use someone else's device.

I got the diary in the mail a few times many years ago. I know how it worked and how people could just make stuff up too. I know a few that did too

 

[K.M. Richards]

I got the diary in the mail a few times many years ago. I know how it worked and how people could just make stuff up too. I know a few that did too

And the people in Columbia MD know how to detect diaries that are suspect. Arbitron knew how to detect them as well.

I remember one incident, many years ago, where someone (not an employee, thankfully), showed 16 hours of listening every day during the diary week, alternating between the Top-40 AM and the Beautiful Music FM. That was an easy one for the old Arbitron personnel to cull out ...

 

[yeoldeschool]

And the people in Columbia MD know how to detect diaries that are suspect. Arbitron knew how to detect them as well.

I remember one incident, many years ago, where someone (not an employee, thankfully), showed 16 hours of listening every day during the diary week, alternating between the Top-40 AM and the Beautiful Music FM. That was an easy one for the old Arbitron personnel to cull out...

In my teens and twenties, I would often go on all-day caffeine fueled coding benders, alternating uninterrupted between Classical 105.1 and Arrow 93 whenever the commercial breaks bounced me. They probably unknowingly threw out a bunch of "deep focusing" computer programmers' diaries.

 

[davideduardo]

In my teens and twenties, I would often go on all-day caffeine fueled coding benders, alternating uninterrupted between Classical 105.1 and Arrow 93 whenever the commercial breaks bounced me. They probably unknowingly threw out a bunch of "deep focusing" computer programmers' diaries.

Most of the analysis of diary entries is automated now, as is the input of the data itself. But in the past, each diary and every entry within was entered by hand.

When manual tabulation was done, the staff had very strict procedures on what to do with imprecise entries. Things like names, slogans, dial positions, alternate spellings of station names, names of personalities and the station they "belonged to" and the like had specific handling.

Even cases where a person put "FM 98" and there were two local 98's, they had a formula to allocate in proportion to each station's historical share.

And if a person wrote in "Bill Stevens Rock 98" where Bill was on a different stations, they allocated the information.

Back then, if an entry was still confusing, they had operators who called the diary keeper and clarified. They did this in part to establish additional clarification rules for each market.

Today, it's all OCR and only if the system can't follow a rule do they manually check a diary. I don't know if they call if the computer can't figure it out. But this is a case where AI likely does better than "live" tabulators as it can instantly find the most likely solution.

 

[Lukeradio09]

Now an update to this thread over the past 5 years people have listened to FM/AM Radio. HD Radio isnt dead yet as new ones are forming (Like KPAC San Antonio And my Local KISV-FM) It is growing slowly as more people stray away from streaming

 

[mnw1890]

HD Radio is basically dead in Boston. A number of radio stations have eliminated their HD2 and HD3 signals due to monetary constraints.

 

[cc333]

HD's not so hot here in the SF market either, but last I knew, KOIT had an HD2 and HD3.

c

 

[Will_H_69_9]

let's be honest, what is killing HD Radio is internet streaming, that's why GM is phasing it out of their car radios, because the you get either the same crystal clear CD/MP3 quality or better from a stream on iHeartRadio, TuneIn or Audacy and all you need is internet connection via 4G/5G cell reception or near by Wi-Fi network.

 

[K6JHU]

There is a station here that I get marginally on FM. But they are also on an HD channel (HD-3) on one of the local stations. Crystal clear reception up to 60 miles out. There is a use for HD.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

HD Radio isnt dead yet ...
It is growing slowly as more people stray away from streaming

What source are you using for that claim? Every metric I've seen shows that streaming continues to grow.

let's be honest, what is killing HD Radio is internet streaming, that's why GM is phasing it out of their car radios

The reason GM is dropping HD Radio is to gatekeep their in-dash entertainment systems and eliminate as many free options as possible in order to push people into paid subscriptions.
HD Radio (free) = gone.
Android Auto (free) = gone.
Apple Carplay (free) = gone.
GM vehicle purchase = pay monthly, forever, to get your favorite content.

 

[TheBigA]

The reason GM is dropping HD Radio is to gatekeep their in-dash entertainment systems and eliminate as many free options as possible in order to push people into paid subscriptions.

This past weekend I rented a GM vehicle, a brand new Chevy SUV. The minute I got in the car, I wanted to listen to the local sports station that was carrying live PBP of a team I follow. I spent a half hour trying to figure out how to get to AM/FM radio. The main default was to seek an outboard device. I turned the system on, and it said "No Devices Detected." The other choices were to find bluetooth with my phone, or Sirius XM.

I tried every possible combination. Finally I tried hitting one of the function buttons twice. That brought me to the AM/FM option. Then it all worked normally. But this was the first car I can remember (and I rent cars a lot) where AM/FM was not a default. Thinking back, this may have been the first time in a while that I've been in a GM car.

 

[radiofan2023]

This past weekend I rented a GM vehicle, a brand new Chevy SUV. The minute I got in the car, I wanted to listen to the local sports station that was carrying live PBP of a team I follow. I spent a half hour trying to figure out how to get to AM/FM radio. The main default was to seek an outboard device. I turned the system on, and it said "No Devices Detected." The other choices were to find bluetooth with my phone, or Sirius XM.

I tried every possible combination. Finally I tried hitting one of the function buttons twice. That brought me to the AM/FM option. Then it all worked normally. But this was the first car I can remember (and I rent cars a lot) where AM/FM was not a default. Thinking back, this may have been the first time in a while that I've been in a GM car.

Why not just read the owner’s manual?

 

[TheBigA]

Why not just read the owner’s manual?

Because I NEVER EVER read owners manuals. Especially car radios. The great thing about radio is you turn it on and it works.

But the thought did enter my mind. Then I hit the function button twice and it worked.

Part of the reason I don't read owners manuals is because of how badly they're written. All in lawyer-ese. Blah!

The other reason I didn't read the owners manual was I was driving for most of the time.

 

[Moss Steiger]

I think that some of the energy being spent to legislatively save the black hole of AM radio should be focused on saving the FM band as well. It's not a far cry to have radio eliminated or made extremely difficult to use in new cars given the subscription model that's unfolding. And once one manufacturer gets away with it being accepted if will spread to the other manufacturers as well. When/if radio loses significant listenership in the car it's game over.

 

[TheBigA]

And once one manufacturer gets away with it being accepted if will spread to the other manufacturers as well.

It's not just car manufacturers. It's also electronics manufacturers, who are mostly based in China.

 

[Mediafrog+]

It's not just car manufacturers. It's also electronics manufacturers, who are mostly based in China.

China has a very vibrant AM and FM radio scene. The country is definitely not trying to kill those platforms.

Also of note: China has around 200 domestic shortwave outlets, so that is another platform that is still going there.

 

[XCountry285]

Correct. If you go back through this forum you'll see Audacy and iHeart in particular have discontinued some of their former HD+ subchannels, shifting their focus to their streaming platforms instead. I still like having HD Radio capability in the car but it appeals to a very niche audience and it feels neglected by Xperi, just like everything else they own.

It's unfortunate that automakers lock customers into their factory entertainment systems now. I was someone who always upgraded my cars to great aftermarket gear that outperformed even the premium factory options with more features at a lower cost. You can't do that anymore. If you really wanted HD Radio but the automaker no longer offers it, you're basically stuck with what they give you for as long as you own that car. It's not like the good old days when you could easily pull out the factory AM/FM/CD player and put a Pioneer, Kenwood or Alpine head unit with Android Auto, Apple Car Play, HD Radio and a navigation touchscreen if that what you wanted.

Subaru radios are trash I sadly can't take mine out

I always said HD was just a translator feeder and not much else. Streaming has always had far more going for it technically. That's why I always saw streaming, not HD, as radio's future.

It's also going to be time very soon for the PROs to get it through their heads they have to adjust streaming rates because it won't be long at this rate before the terrestrial signal is secondary to the stream. So the rate differences between over the air broadcasters and streaming-only webcasters will be obsolete in a few years. (Surely the PROs have prepared for this. 🙄)

The car makers have finally spoken the same thing to the radio industry and the public what I was told years ago from my dealer. Terrestrial radio is not in the future of the car industry. Including FM.

And it is horrifying to watch. But the writing was on the wall 20 years ago. The public wants high-tech, not a quaint old radio dial. The market has spoken

xperi hasn't exactly helped themselves with it's royalty scam. And since there are very few home/portables with HD and cars bailing out of HD, they're going to have to either give that up and start making (gasp!) relevant things or go under. That HD cow has done been milked to dust.

If the auto makers don't want HD, xperi is in big trouble. Because the radio stations don't want it if they can't semi-profitably run analog translators with it with terrestrial analog FM radio itself vanishing altogether from new/late model cars.

But fair warning: The new radio replacement they're coming up with is much worse.

You ever go into Walgreens for a green tea and you can't find it because every cooler door has a video ad for something else running on it across the entire door? Imagine the distraction when a big, loud, visual ad suddenly pops up on your entertainment center screen. Especially for a product/service you will never want or need. That will get very old, very fast. So I hope the car industry is planning an opt-out because I really don't see the public reacting well to that.

And seriously, people are REALLY tired of the 360° advertising bombardment of life as it is now. Seeing it in their cars isn't going to sit as well as the ad agencies, tech companies and car makers think. Because people see their cars as their personal spaces. And the ads (especially if there is no direct way of shutting them off) will become invasive. Audio advertising is more subtle by comparison. You can change the station, turn down/off the volume, play MP3s/CDs, whatever to tune them out. What's the escape hatch here? Especially when you and your date are having a moment? Or if you have important guests you don't want to embarrass yourself in front of with your car uncontrollably flashing ads for AM/PM hot dogs.

The ad agencies aren't going to invest in a system that doesn't put their messages in front of the driver at all times. Or trigger the video screens in the back seat to show toy or fast food commercials. So I expect the worst from it first before legislation straightens it out.

And what's to keep auto manufacturers from having in house ad agencies, radio channels and content makers of their own? They got their buyers complete financials, personal data, address, etc.

I have a Samsung TV that defaults to its own streaming network menu options when you turn it on. I have to thumb for the HDMI connection my cable is on. That's very possible in this environment too.

And it's going to be a problem for everybody if the on-board advertising system works better than anything else in the car.

I agree 100%. I hate that newer cars have all this stuff popping up and distracting you from driving. It's a safety hazard.