Buffalo Do young people even know what radio is?

[BfloRadio]

I'm 50. I used to listen to the radio all the time growing up, and a variety of stations... but that was when there was radio, TV and newspapers as the dominant formats for media. Since the 1980s and 1990s, everything has changed and "kids these days" are, in my opinion, even aware that there are radio stations unless their mom has one on during a car ride. I think young people are on social media, watching videos on Tik-Tok, etc. They don't seem to be tuning into radio. My nephew Jack is 15. He loves old music from Queen and Weezer and The Beatles. How does he know those songs? Vinyl records and YouTube. Not listening to a radio station.
I realize the people on this forum have a sincere love for radio. I love it too. But what do you think about its future? Will the younger generation(s) even know what it is or will it go the way of the covered wagon and daily printed newspaper?

 

[TheBigA]

Will the younger generation(s) even know what it is or will it go the way of the covered wagon and daily printed newspaper?

Are you talking about a specific device known as a radio? Because that device is becoming less common. The last statistic I saw was that about half of the adult population has a radio in the house. Younger people are less likely to own radios than older people. That's why a lot of radio station owners are pushing their apps and streaming sites.

The term "radio" is used for a lot of things. Sirius considers what they do to be radio. iHeartRadio considers it's streaming service to be radio. So the term isn't exclusive to a specific device. Radio companies aren't in the device business. But they're dependent on people owning those devices in order to hear their stations. They've realized they can't assume 92% of the people own radios anymore.

But as you point out, radio doesn't have an exclusive in music delivery anymore. That's another reason why radio owners are focusing on news, talk, and sports,

 

[b-turner]

Talked to a new advretiser yesterday. She moved from a major city to my small town of 16,000. She doesn't use a device called a radio. She listens via our app. She loves our station. Who cares how she receives our programming.

 

[Larry]

Talked to a new advretiser yesterday. She moved from a major city to my small town of 16,000. She doesn't use a device called a radio. She listens via our app. She loves our station. Who cares how she receives our programming.

I occasionally listen to my favorite radio station via the Audacy or iHeart apps. While on those apps I have discovered other programming I enjoy. But what reason does a 20 or 25 year old have to even download let alone use the Audacy or iHeart apps?

 

[TheBigA]

But what reason does a 20 or 25 year old have to even download let alone use the Audacy or iHeart apps?

It depends on what they're looking for. As the OP says, radio is probably not the best platform for music. They're likely already satisfied with the music options they have. But that's where creating content comes in. If you're a radio personality, your #1 method for outreach is social media. You want to create something that goes viral and attracts a lot of attention. That will create interest in what you're doing on the radio. If you get their attention, then embed a link to your streaming station, and watch what happens.

I see a lot of older people don't understand why radio stations use social media. The reason is engagement. It's the best way to engage with people who perhaps don't listen. They're just interested in what you're talking about. Your post showed up in their feed thanks to an algorithm. It somehow captures their attention and interest. Next thing you know, they seek you out. If you've done all the right things in terms of search optimization, you will have a new listener.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Perhaps some people will prefer listening to a source that doesn't collect reams of data and bombard you with oodles of ads for something you clicked on by mistake once. Is it possible that privacy matters to some people out there? Then again, I can understand why radio companies would drive you toward apps and websites that allow them to scrape lots of information and sell it to data brokers.

 

[Buddy Shula]

This is a good question, and a question never really answered. To answer it, the discussion needs to be based on facts, not opinions.

Here are the facts I see:
- Not many physical radios are being bought
-Not many physical radio can even been found
- I own seven frequencies on the Buffalo dial, yet I cannot find a radio
-In car is the only place a radio will be found
- Kids know about radio but it is not where they are hearing new music first
-Technology changed the world, and it will continue to change it
- The concept of “video killed the radio star” is correct
- The word “station” will only be used to identify frequencies on your car radio
- A radio station needs to become a local brand
- Apps are the future. Platforms other than frequencies will continue to grow
- What can a station do to be unique?


That’s just some of the thoughts I have. The prices of radio stations have gone down significantly, that’s because buyers know their ain’t going to be any need for frequencies because their ain’t going to be any radios

Currently, purchasing a radio station would be like purchasing a horse and buggy. Radio stations are no longer assets that appreciate because of the license. The business has turned from asset to cash flow.

In Buffalo, we are behind ten years. That’s why Buffalo has the most AM listening in the nation. That’s why I bought WECK and WUSW. Radio is not dead, but radio does not even like to call itself radio. They now call it audio.

I am in current talks to purchase a large Buffalo FM. The purchase price would astound you. So why would I consider towers, wires, transmitters if radio is not good long term.? Because we are in Buffalo. I don’t ever plan to retire. If I can get a station for the purchase price I am at, it will pay for itself and cash flow within 2 years. The equipment almost pays for the station now that you can depreciate 100% in year one.

Radio is just becoming “something else” . Also, let me mention, the slow death speeds up when you put tv in the mix. That’s a medium with ever bigger problems .

So, be thankful for what you have, enjoy the memories, and live for today. However, technology has changed the world for good, and it’s not stopping

 

[michael hagerty]

Talked to a new advretiser yesterday. She moved from a major city to my small town of 16,000. She doesn't use a device called a radio. She listens via our app. She loves our station. Who cares how she receives our programming.

Honest question, because I don't know the answer: Can you sell 1,000 listeners on your app to an advertiser for the same amount of money that client would pay for 1,000 listeners to your radio station? Is there parity? I know for a long time it was digital dimes vs. analog dollars.

 

[Buddy Shula]

Honest question, because I don't know the answer: Can you sell 1,000 listeners on your app to an advertiser for the same amount of money that client would pay for 1,000 listeners to your radio station? Is there parity? I know for a long time it was digital dimes vs. analog dollars.

Great question. An impression is an impression no matter what you are hearing it on.

The answer to your question is absolutely, and it happens daily.

The 4,000 people in our WECK text club want to be reached by us. If McDonalds will give cheaper hamburgers if the customer shows a discount coupon from us, the client pays for that.

An average cost per impression in Buffalo is usually around $22. So, if the client is reaching 4k WECK text club members, you do the math to get to the number they need to spend to hit that cost per impression goal

 

[michael hagerty]

Great question. An impression is an impression no matter what you are hearing it on.

The answer to your question is absolutely, and it happens daily.

The 4,000 people in our WECK text club want to be reached by us. If McDonalds will give cheaper hamburgers if the customer shows a discount coupon from us, the client pays for that.

An average cost per impression in Buffalo is usually around $22. So, if the client is reaching 4k WECK text club members, you do the math to get to the number they need to spend to hit that cost per impression goal

I understand what you were saying, but it wasn't always equal or even close. It's a good thing for broadcasters if that's the case now.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

I'm 50. I used to listen to the radio all the time growing up, and a variety of stations... but that was when there was radio, TV and newspapers as the dominant formats for media. Since the 1980s and 1990s, everything has changed and "kids these days" are, in my opinion, even aware that there are radio stations unless their mom has one on during a car ride. I think young people are on social media, watching videos on Tik-Tok, etc. They don't seem to be tuning into radio. My nephew Jack is 15. He loves old music from Queen and Weezer and The Beatles. How does he know those songs? Vinyl records and YouTube. Not listening to a radio station.
I realize the people on this forum have a sincere love for radio. I love it too. But what do you think about its future? Will the younger generation(s) even know what it is or will it go the way of the covered wagon and daily printed newspaper?

My niece is the same way and same age as your nephew. but then again its what ever is available to them at that time. They were not here when analog TV existed or when stereo TV and radios were then luxuries. Its YouTube, Tik Tok, Discord, Spotify and Iheart that made them aware of some trends they see today. I don't think radio will go away but talking about AM, FM or HD Radio will fade away given where we are today with dashboard apps for newer cars.

 

[Buddy Shula]

You can call the medium, or you can call the item a radio. The medium is abstract.

It is now usually referred to as “audio”

A radio will always be a radio, but the distribution method for the concept will constantly change.

Again, if you have a “radio brand”, listeners will seek that out in a local market. Where they seek it out will be plentiful. Voice-Activated devices, mobile apps, streaming , Bluetooth, Car Dashboard, and radio frequencies

We are still in a great radio city, which is Buffalo. Some great brands.

I recently did a “radio only buy” with my agency, Media One. We did nothing but radio for the month. They broke sales goal records.

Because Time-Spent-Listening and Weekly Persons have declined for all radio stations, a client needs even more frequency, more commercials to do the job.

Radio commercial rates are far more efficient than tv, giving opportunities to a client to “own a station” for a few thousand dollars per month. On TV, to “own the station” the costs will be far, far higher.

In Buffalo, you can really do a great job reaching the audience for about 3k. On TV, you need at least 10k

Another great medium that I own with partner is billboards. I get calls about billboards more than anything. If you think about it, billboards cannot be replaced by technology, UNLESS, we are driving in the sky, which my guess is someday we will be doing. But for now, billboards crush it. I have a digital billboard on the 290 expressway right before the first Deleware Ave exit. That billboard commands huge dollars, and advertisers do not mind paying it. I also own a billboard on the 190 at Dingens/Ogden. It flips advertisers. It’s completely sold out for the year at great rates. You may have seen the BIG WECK on it

Back to radio, good for quick cash flow, bad as a long term investment

 

[SteveTripi]

It's a push pull. There's so few good paying jobs in the broadcasting business these days.

Why go to broadcasting school at all, when the best you're gonna do on TV is what, $45,000 a year? Radio is worse.

Most engineers are 50 plus, but AI, automation, AVoIP, cloud computing and corporate consolidation offer bleak growth on the "technical" side of the business.

Even if you do manage to get out of school without massive debt, who's gonna hire you?

Shredd and Ragan have been doing the same bits, same segments, same show since 1991. You're never gonna get their job.

Even if they do retire, or if Mike Schopp retires (at least a decade away), the corporate suits are not gonna hire a kid out of college to host legacy shows to their aged audiences.

So what's the point? Even if you get a job, the pay is terrible. You get stuck in a quagmire of a low paying, low status role, with almost 0 opportunity to move up.

Wanna go to a different market? You're competing with the Nicholas Pickolus and the Mike Schopps of Grand Rapids, MI. Good luck kids!

You want "the kids" to care about broadcasting? Or hell, print journalism? Offer them something worthwhile.

Meanwhile, the talent drain will continue. The "communications" majors will go to the good paying PR jobs, marketing jobs, "storyteller" jobs (glitzy ad agencies).

What are they supposed to do? Work til they're 35 for $16/hr and "love the work" or some other corporate nonsense?

 

[TheBigA]

Why go to broadcasting school at all, when the best you're gonna do on TV is what, $45,000 a year?

Here's what iHeart said in it's memo about job cuts:

While we will be creating new roles to support our future needs, we also recognize that some colleagues and existing positions will be impacted as part of these changes.

They are telling you they are changing. Radio companies know there's no future in the past. Their future is in creating content. If you go to some top "broadcasting schools," they don't teach radio. They teach podcast creation. They teach social media and search engine optimization. They teach a lot of things people use media for today.

That's why I asked in post #2 if you're talking about the device known as radio, or if you're talking about audio creation. Two very different things. There are jobs to be had at Spotify. They pay more than $45K. They are "global" jobs because Spotify is a global company. But they're not in Buffalo.

Radio changed a long time ago. It's nice that there are still people playing music on local radio. But when you talk to young people about radio, they see it as something bigger than sitting at a console playing someone else's music over towers and transmitters.

 

[Kent]

They don't seem to be tuning into radio. My nephew Jack is 15. He loves old music from Queen and Weezer and The Beatles. How does he know those songs? Vinyl records and YouTube. Not listening to a radio station.
I realize the people on this forum have a sincere love for radio. I love it too. But what do you think about its future? Will the younger generation(s) even know what it is or will it go the way of the covered wagon and daily printed newspaper?

Most everybody still listens to radio. Most nobody still listens to radio the way they did 10-20 years ago. Younger people, in particular, use it less and in shorter bursts, while those of us who are older are, for the most part, the heavy listeners. Even among most of us, however, we don't necessarily listen the way we used to either. I consume very little audio in the form of AM and FM signals. More than 90% of my listening is via streaming. As The Big A mentions, in some form, radio will, most likely, always be around. That might not, though, mean the same forms of delivery will be around. We're already seeing AM rapidly going the way of the dodo. FM will eventually follow. No technology lasts forever, and death is part of the technological life cycle.

Talked to a new advretiser yesterday. She moved from a major city to my small town of 16,000. She doesn't use a device called a radio. She listens via our app. She loves our station. Who cares how she receives our programming.

I get what you're trying to say, but you should care. Yes, a listener is a listener, but how many are listening in which manner is important for budgeting and marketing. You might not have to deal with AFTRA in a market that small, but, at some point, you're probably going to have to sell at least a few different spots on the digital stream versus the AM and FM.

Honest question, because I don't know the answer: Can you sell 1,000 listeners on your app to an advertiser for the same amount of money that client would pay for 1,000 listeners to your radio station? Is there parity? I know for a long time it was digital dimes vs. analog dollars.

From what I understand, at least in smaller markets, there is parity in a sense. My information could be outdated because it's been about 10 years since I've heard, but, last I'd heard, online ads were selling at about $35/1,000. That's about the same rate a station with 1,000 listeners on the quarter hour would get per spot. So, you're theoretically getting the same money for your online spots versus your over-the-air spots. Margins, however, are a lot smaller on the digital side because costs are higher. Plus, selling online might be easier today, but that always required additional effort in the past, too. Even if it doesn't show up on the balance sheet, extra effort is still an extra expense. I still hear a fairly noticeable amount of what sounds like per-inquiry spots, even on large market stations owned by fairly large broadcasters. I don't hear them on iHeart, Cumulus, or Audacy properties, but most everybody else would still seem to air at least an occasional spot that says, "Use the code word 'RADIO' [or something similar] when you place your order."

 

[TheBigA]

Even among most of us, however, we don't necessarily listen the way we used to either.

I think a big part of it is that music has changed. Take a look at WECK. The music they play is from an era where people had a strong connection to the music. Radio was their way of connecting with that music. Same with classic rock. Today, people don't build their lives as much around music. So for radio to attach itself to current music only works if the fan base for that music is as strong and devoted as it once was.