Empire State Building - climbers

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

This is a bit off-topic, in that it does not relate to the ESB, but to a discussion of "edgy" radio content and people taking health risks. About 20 years ago in Sacramento, station KDND 107.9, owned by Entercom, thought up a contest where listeners would compete to see who could drink the most amount of water without using the bathroom. The prize was a new Nintendo Wii, at the time, a very popular and expensive game system. The second place winner, a 28 year old mom of 3, trying to win the Nintendo for her kids, drank 2 gallons of water, before dropping out of the game. But she later complained of intense head pain, then collapsed and died. She was diagnosed with water intoxication, in which the excess water flooded her system, disrupted the electrolytes and sodium levels, and caused brain swelling. In the wrongful death lawsuit, her family was awarded $16 million.

In this case, the station and Entercom was found liable, because they had set up the contest, recruited the contestants, and had enticed them with a prize. Even when a nurse called in during the contest, warning of water intoxication, the DJ's kept the contest running. But -- this is not what happened with the ESB. They did not set up a contest, did not recruit daredevils, did not promise a prize, and wanted no involvement. This is the difference between these two situations.
ESB was not responsible for tempting the climbers. They did break through a security lock.
But KDND was found liable for what happened, 10 staff members were fired, and the station later surrendered their license.

Way off topic-- but this is why I don't like "edgy content" on radio. Some of it can become abusive and dangerous. ( I tend to avoid "morning zoo" shows with shock jocks, etc.).

What Happened in the Hold Your Wee for a Wii Lawsuit?

A Sacramento radio station’s water-drinking contest cost a mother her life. Here’s how the wrongful death lawsuit unfolded and what the jury decided.

legalclarity.org

 

[K.M. Richards]

In case @Theater of My Mind would like to see where I got my "uninformed comment" from:

New details emerge about Empire State Building daredevil climbers, as couple released from jail

The two climbers, Angela Nikolau and Ivan Kuznetsov, now face multiple charges, according to police.

abcnews.com

 

[davideduardo]

There are too many poorly informed comments about these climbers from people who have not even watched a very well-produced, publicly available profile about them.

However, K.M.'s comments were based on local reliable and responsible news coverage.

Where is the outrage directed at the Empire State Building and its security protocols that allowed this to happen in the first place? There is practically no bigger terrorism target in the world than the Empire State Building, yet these two had no problem waltzing in and getting up to the top.

Yet the building is a business. They have to find a "sweet spot" between security and the ability to run the building on a day to day basis. If they "enhance" security too much, then the activities of tenants and visitors might be... probably would be... made impractically difficult.

If they had been stopped by security in the first place, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Frankly, NYC is extremely lucky the people who did this were carrying cameras, not bombs. But I guess it's charges for the people who did no real harm while the ESB management gets a free pass for its good luck.

Again, you are asking for impractical and intrusive security at a public building. If they add additional security measures beyond those already in effect, the rents would have to be increased to the point that tenants would move to some of the millions of square feet of vacant office space already courting them. Or to New Jersey, where all of a sudden a whole bunch of businesses are moving their offices.

You're the keyboard warrior making uninformed comments and saying you don't care so why should I care what you think of me?

K.M.'s remarks are based on local news media reports. Your comment is not warranted.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Wow, this was one of the biggest viral incidents of the year. Everyone on the internet is laughing at it, resharing it, photoshopping the climbers' flag message, turning it new memes.

It's headline news that's gotten everyone talking about it in a fun way -- except for the radio broadcasting forums. Especially this one, where a bunch of old men from the failing radio industry are waving their fists, screaming at anyone who dares to praise this couple to get off their lawn.

Do you guys hear yourselves? How many threads are on this board proclaiming how radio has to be on every platform and UNDERSTAND them? Yet the radio "experts" bloviating about strategy here are completely oblivious to the significance of what just happened.

Oh, boo-hoo, someone climbed the tower and attracted more attention than any of the radio stations broadcasting from that tower could dream of. By the way, they also made more in sponsorship money than any of you guys have seen in a long time.

But sure, go back to your corporate-and AI-written astroturfing social media posts, and make sure to run them past your cadre of lawyers and consultants so you don't offend anyone. Keep playing the same 250 burned out '80s songs that everyone had heard a billion times too often in their lives already. And be sure to show up at the next radio convention echo chamber to impress all your colleagues about what multi-platform entertainment geniuses you are. Doesn't that sound like a winning formula?

No wonder radio is dead.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Oh, boo-hoo, someone climbed the tower and attracted more attention than any of the radio stations broadcasting from that tower could dream of. By the way, they also made more in sponsorship money than any of you guys have seen in a long time.

And they did it by breaking the law. Which makes any comparison you make meaningless.

 

[xmusicmatt]

If they want to be entertainers they should do things legally. Legit folks who do stunts like this (climb things, daredevil's etc.) all go through the proper legal channels to do them.

 

[davideduardo]

Wow, this was one of the biggest viral incidents of the year. Everyone on the internet is laughing at it, resharing it, photoshopping the climbers' flag message, turning it new memes.

And that does not take anything away from the fact that the whole event was a criminal action. It caused property damage and violated a bunch of laws, starting with trespassing and breaking and entering. In about 65 years in Radio, I have never encouraged the coverage of such publicity motivated criminal actions.

It's headline news that's gotten everyone talking about it in a fun way -- except for the radio broadcasting forums. Especially this one, where a bunch of old men from the failing radio industry are waving their fists, screaming at anyone who dares to praise this couple to get off their lawn.

Excuse me, but if you are the one who negotiates insurance coverage for a large business (in this case, the owners of the Empire State building) you are more than upset by the fact that this will create higher costs for both insurance and security of “attractive” properties that might attract similar idiots to trespass in the future.

Do you guys hear yourselves? How many threads are on this board proclaiming how radio has to be on every platform and UNDERSTAND them? Yet the radio "experts" bloviating about strategy here are completely oblivious to the significance of what just happened.

This is not about Radio. It is about a crime committed by people who make a living committing crimes. I cannot see that any of their prior “height challenge“ activities have been authorized, meaning all are illegal.

Oh, boo-hoo, someone climbed the tower and attracted more attention than any of the radio stations broadcasting from that tower could dream of. By the way, they also made more in sponsorship money than any of you guys have seen in a long time.

If you add up the broadcast revenue of the stations on the Empire State building you are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. I doubt that those two idiots came anywhere close to that.

But sure, go back to your corporate-and AI-written astroturfing social media posts, and make sure to run them past your cadre of lawyers and consultants so you don't offend anyone.

Your obviously experience challenged impression of how radio stations work is hard at work here

Keep playing the same 250 burned out '80s songs that everyone had heard a billion times too often in their lives already.

Actually, we spend collectively millions of dollars a year to find out which songs have mass appeal in any particular age group that we wish a station to appeal to. Since those songs are researched and are determined to be “favorites“, saying that they are burnt out is an absolute lie. In fact, they are songs that lots of people want to hear many times day after day, week after week, month after month. And when they no longer want to hear them, our research will find out and we will play them less or abandon them. That is how it actually works and not in your imaginary fictional environment.

And be sure to show up at the next radio convention echo chamber to impress all your colleagues about what multi-platform entertainment geniuses you are. Doesn't that sound like a winning formula?

If you would ever have participated in a management or programming convention, you would know that we do not share our operational practices with our competitors. Duh! We go to conventions to establish relationships with vendors of equipment, software and services, and to listen to seminars about changes in legal systems, audience measurement, traffic and billing software and so on.

You are very fast to criticize those who still work in an industry in decline but very limited in your knowledge of how a successful radio station operates.

 

[Yabadabado1]

Way off topic-- but this is why I don't like "edgy content" on radio. Some of it can become abusive and dangerous. ( I tend to avoid "morning zoo" shows with shock jocks, etc.).

What Happened in the Hold Your Wee for a Wii Lawsuit?

A Sacramento radio station’s water-drinking contest cost a mother her life. Here’s how the wrongful death lawsuit unfolded and what the jury decided.

legalclarity.org

Are there any shows like that left in radio? Seems someone mentions the word "fart" on a morning show nowadays and there's all sorts of histrionics, people terminated, apologies from station management for weeks on end. I remember late 70s and early 80s when I was writing jokes for morning show jocks, some of the stuff was pretty risque, lots of double entendre stuff. Couple of years ago talking with one I wrote jokes for and he said he was embarrassed about them now and said he'd NEVER do anything like them today. I was sorta offended and said he didn't mind the ratings they got him back then.

 

[Yabadabado1]

I do wonder how far you could have seen the glow from them if the RF had lit them up like a Christmas tree. New Jersey? Massachusetts? Vermont? Pennsylvania?

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Are there any shows like that left in radio? Seems someone mentions the word "fart" on a morning show nowadays and there's all sorts of histrionics, people terminated, apologies from station management for weeks on end. I remember late 70s and early 80s when I was writing jokes for morning show jocks, some of the stuff was pretty risque, lots of double entendre stuff. Couple of years ago talking with one I wrote jokes for and he said he was embarrassed about them now and said he'd NEVER do anything like them today. I was sorta offended and said he didn't mind the ratings they got him back then.

Some of the edgy stuff is clever and witty, and genuinely made me laugh. You probably wrote the clever and witty material with the funny double entendres. 😊 Some of it dunked on women very roughly and portrayed them as useless and inferior. That probably wasn’t you. (Charlemagne still does that stuff. But women comics became popular, and they tell jokes on themselves now). The edgy stuff moved to late night cable, to You Tube, and to comedy clubs.
But back to topic— it’s not the reason for radio’s decline. That’s a technical issue.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

And that does not take anything away from the fact that the whole event was a criminal action. It caused property damage and violated a bunch of laws, starting with trespassing and breaking and entering. In about 65 years in Radio, I have never encouraged the coverage of such publicity motivated criminal actions.

Excuse me, but if you are the one who negotiates insurance coverage for a large business (in this case, the owners of the Empire State building) you are more than upset by the fact that this will create higher costs for both insurance and security of “attractive” properties that might attract similar idiots to trespass in the future.


This is not about Radio. It is about a crime committed by people who make a living committing crimes. I cannot see that any of their prior “height challenge“ activities have been authorized, meaning all are illegal.


If you add up the broadcast revenue of the stations on the Empire State building you are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. I doubt that those two idiots came anywhere close to that.

Your obviously experience challenged impression of how radio stations work is hard at work here

Actually, we spend collectively millions of dollars a year to find out which songs have mass appeal in any particular age group that we wish a station to appeal to. Since those songs are researched and are determined to be “favorites“, saying that they are burnt out is an absolute lie. In fact, they are songs that lots of people want to hear many times day after day, week after week, month after month. And when they no longer want to hear them, our research will find out and we will play them less or abandon them. That is how it actually works and not in your imaginary fictional environment.

If you would ever have participated in a management or programming convention, you would know that we do not share our operational practices with our competitors. Duh! We go to conventions to establish relationships with vendors of equipment, software and services, and to listen to seminars about changes in legal systems, audience measurement, traffic and billing software and so on.

You are very fast to criticize those who still work in an industry in decline but very limited in your knowledge of how a successful radio station operates.

Thank you David- always the voice of reason and logic. 👍🏼😍. Very well written.

 

[TangoFoxCharlie]

The real problem here is the complete lapse in security. Hello...9/11? anybody? You're lucky that were just attention seeking thrill seekers and not people up to sinister intent.

 

[K.M. Richards]

The real problem here is the complete lapse in security. Hello...9/11? anybody? You're lucky that were just attention seeking thrill seekers and not people up to sinister intent.

I would not call it a "complete lapse" as it has been widely reported that the daredevils broke the lock on a security door to gain access. Short of posting an armed guard at that door, there's little more that the ESB management could be reasonably expected to do.

Yet these two lawbreakers broke that security and then proceeded to trespass. Your statement ignores the truth.

And, having been alive on 9/11/01 and watching the live coverage of that terrorist attack, I fail to see why you apparently believe enhanced security at a building will prevent someone crashing an airplane into it.

 

[TangoFoxCharlie]

I would not call it a "complete lapse" as it has been widely reported that the daredevils broke the lock on a security door to gain access. Short of posting an armed guard at that door, there's little more that the ESB management could be reasonably expected to do.

Yet these two lawbreakers broke that security and then proceeded to trespass. Your statement ignores the truth.

And, having been alive on 9/11/01 and watching the live coverage of that terrorist attack, I fail to see why you apparently believe enhanced security at a building will prevent someone crashing an airplane into it.

You believe that 2 airplanes crashing into the WTC buildings caused them to implode and collapse exactly like a controlled demolition. 🤣

 

[lanceventa]

This thread has devolved into people claiming that 9/11 was faked and was never about broadcasting... Time to close this thread...

 

[Yabadabado1]

Some of the edgy stuff is clever and witty, and genuinely made me laugh. You probably wrote the clever and witty material with the funny double entendres. 😊 Some of it dunked on women very roughly and portrayed them as useless and inferior. That probably wasn’t you. (Charlemagne still does that stuff. But women comics became popular, and they tell jokes on themselves now). The edgy stuff moved to late night cable, to You Tube, and to comedy clubs.
But back to topic— it’s not the reason for radio’s decline. That’s a technical issue.

You know, thinking back, I don't think I ever wrote anything derogatory about any female. If they did something that would have or could have made them a winner of a Darwin Award, I probably did. But I can't recall any right now. And 9/11 DID happen. I had a friend who lived in NYC and his wife worked in the World Trade Center tower [Cannot remember which one]. Spent 24 hours on the phone trying to contact him and he finally called me back to say they were OK. Since he worked near the building and the horror stories he told me of trying to get out of and off of the Island. Since I worked nights, I didn't know what happened until late afternoon of that day and turned on the news and wondered why people were screaming and fleeing down the streets in Cleveland.