100.3 The Sound?

[ronkaram]

About the same time Jack went on the air, so did Jill. I don't think I've ever seen this station make the ratings but thier signal is terrible. Yet they still exist and must make some money for its owner. I know Glenn thinks the guys uses it for a tax loss.

 

[nmoore6676]

My knee-jerk reaction to some words here are that stations aren't trying to get more listening audience members due to the fact that so many don't care what the their listening audience has to say.

Stations listen to the listeners. However, most programmers have learned not to pay attention to random comments but, instead, to listener comments that represent a really true cross section of the audience.

I know someone will bring up research (yadda, yadda), but the listeners who call in or talk to an on-air talent at a venue/function, are people they should also be pleasing.

That is probably one of the most dangerous things a programmer can do. Active listeners are important, but one has to balance against the 80% or so who are not acctive listeners. It's necessary to talk to all segments of the audience before forming an opinion, or you can ruin the station.

David is right on here. There is an old adage "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". In actuality in most cases, radio programing, or politics for examples the squeaky wheels are people with an agenda and generally tend to not be the majority. So their squeaking is motivated by their enthusiasm for their personal cause which many times in nowhere near representing the general consensus.


As to your response to my "local programming" comment. I meant in the sense that local programmers now, especially in the big corporate stations are merely an extension of the corporate policy and operate in a narrow setting of what the big guys want to hear. Chuck Blore (and his kin) need not apply, though he would be a killer consultant.

I also know selling is different though that was never really my area (actually more technical and a little on air). However I know places where in smaller markets and the station owners are devoted to what they are airing so they do go out and market what they do. The difference is that they have to believe in their product and the people they hire have to go out and call on potential sponsors and sell the format and their audience, not the numbers because they don't have those. My comment about sales people kicking back was more hyperbole, or I intended it to be, than fact.

However I appreciate your side and your illumination of the ideas even when you sat that I'm FOS because you do come from experience and a love of the medium that I also revere.

 

[djmimi]

I was reading with much amusement about "ethnic people" and what they like in music. After all, here I am with my last name being "CHEN" well HELL, I grew up with ROCK music. AND, as Superradiofan pointed out, yes, I grew up in blue collar NEW JOISEY! (OMG. somebody actually remembers me from WPST - the first commercial station I worked at!!)

Dang, if you grow up in America, you are, well...American. So you like the music all your peers listen to.

I might look different on the outside than white people, but inside, I think the same as everyone else. Of course, maybe my more Asian people friends will look at me like I'm a banana or something LOL javascript:void(0);
Shocked
Giggle.

Now the problem with Arbitron is that Asian people don't exist - if you've noticed...
I don't know- does Mr. Radioresearcher have something to say about that?

 

[djmimi]

OH and meanwhile, if you look at KFOG, they are a heritage station in San Francisco. People LOVE that station (I do too, considering I worked there a wee bit, but only a wee bit). They grew up with that station. It's the same with WXRT, people grew up with it and they love it.

They love it because KFOG and WXRT have always stuck to their guns about music. I think the problem with alot of stations is that they jump on some bandwagon and don't develop fans.

Because it's all about developing fans. It's like a rock band. You just keep playing and playing and then one day, you have a huge following that they can't take away from you.

Same deal with WMMR in Philadelphia (which I also had the honor of working at). I also worked at KSAN when it was rock. It's all about having the fans. KSCA was on that verge. When they had the going away party, the people who came down literally stopped traffic. It was several THOUSAND people.

After a while, it will show up in the ratings. But it will take time...

 

[davideduardo]

Now the problem with Arbitron is that Asian people don't exist - if you've noticed...
I don't know- does Mr. Radioresearcher have something to say about that?

There are three categories in Arbitron, Hispanic, Black and Other. Other includes Asians, but there is no guarantee of proportionality.

As to second generation Americans of any origin... a large percentage are bicultural, so will share general market music interests as well as those specific to the root culture. For example, a huge percentage of listeners to Spanish language stations are second generation.

 

[davideduardo]

They love it because KFOG and WXRT have always stuck to their guns about music. I think the problem with alot of stations is that they jump on some bandwagon and don't develop fans.

"Fans" in radio are defined as persons who listen to a particular station more than any other. The average listener has three or more stations they use. While some listen to several about the same, a "fan" is one who predominantly listens to one to the near exclusion of others. This is not an issue of history or heritage... it's one of satisfying expectations every day. The day a station starts letting listener expectations down, it is no longer going to have fans.

A station is only as good as the last time you tuned it in.

KSCA was on that verge. When they had the going away party, the people who came down literally stopped traffic. It was several THOUSAND people.

Wow. Several thousand in a market of 13 million, where a successful station needs a cume of over a million. KSCA was not growing, it was on a slide of sorts, and showed absolutely no increases. It was sold in an unusual LMA to buy later to reduce the potential losses of the format.

After a while, it will show up in the ratings. But it will take time...

No, it will be immediate; what we will see in the Spring and Summer books will basically set the level for the station. I think it will be likely that Bonneville will do a lot of fine tuning to this station before giving up... and they may find a moderate hole for the format if they are fortunate. Rememeber, stations like the former 100.3 and Movin' tried for several years and did not find a significant and profitable niche.

 

[djmimi]

Back to the ethnic thing. I think by the third gen Hispanic that we can safely say they are pretty American as anyone else...

KSCA had Julio FLORES on its staff. I also worked there with Rich Guzman, he was hispanic, was bilingual, but last I talked to him, he was waaaay American. (and one of the more adorable people I ever worked with)

It's also reflected by the way they (third gen hispanic) think about immigration. First and second support the illegals. Then the third start thinking the same way as white people, that well...maybe there's a reason to support legal immigration.

However, I think the problem with LA is that all the white managers in radio can't fathom how to program to a spanish audience. So they do weird programming things like Movin (that has GOT to be the most bizarre station I ever listened to!!) I had to snicker at Rick Dees trying to speak Spanish to his co-host. Good for a laugh every time.

I like Jack, believe it or not, if only because of the attitude. And it goes back to sticking to your guns as a station and not pandering to the masses. The best stations are always NOT phony.

KSCA was not on for a long time. It was on for a puny two years. Not compared to WMMR or KFOG or WXRT. These are all stations that took a LONG time to show the ratings they now currently enjoy. But if you look at their numbers from waaay back when, they had tiny numbers. In the early days, back in the 70's, WMMR's numbers were so bad, it was literally on the verge of extinction. It was literally AOL (all over the road) back then. Took awhile to sort it out. But look at them now...

Yeah, I listen to a bunch of stations too...but one station always seems to be the fav in terms of me being a "fan" or not.

 

[davideduardo]

Back to the ethnic thing. I think by the third gen Hispanic that we can safely say they are pretty American as anyone else...

That's a streach. They are American of Hispanic heritage, so they are not the same as a third generation Italian American from South Philly. But as to music, they are close to being mainstream. However, in LA, where 66% of Hispanics are Spanish dominant and another near-20% ar4e bilingual (meaning they lean to Spanish) there are not a lot of third generation and beyond Hispanics to use formats like AAA which has got to be the most American and least international of the rock and pop genres.

KSCA had Julio FLORES on its staff. I also worked there with Rich Guzman, he was hispanic, was bilingual, but last I talked to him, he was waaaay American. (and one of the more adorable people I ever worked with)

Remember, there are degrees of bilinguality, ranging from those who are more proficient in Spanish to those more proficient in English. Rich would be an example of the latter... I worked with him, too, and agree he is a wonderful person.

It's also reflected by the way they (third gen hispanic) think about immigration. First and second support the illegals. Then the third start thinking the same way as white people, that

Most Hispanics are, per the Census, white. Hispanic is not a race, it is a culture.

However, I think the problem with LA is that all the white managers in radio can't fathom how to program to a spanish audience.

Lenard Liberman seems to have figured it out, and he is both white and Hispanic...

The way to find out how any group thinks is to talk with them, not to make assumptions. If you make the assumption you have made about white and Hispanic, you won't succeed either.

KSCA was not on for a long time. It was on for a puny two years. Not compared to WMMR or KFOG or WXRT. These are all stations that took a LONG time to show the ratings they now currently enjoy.

The station, like Indie, did best at the beginning. It went out at the low end, and this is yet another proof that there are not enough core partisans for a pure AAA format in LA.

Stations get low ratings for two reasons, often simultaneous... they are bad or they are talking to an audience that is not big enough to make the format work..

 

[radioresearcher]

I think Mimi has some good points. There's a myth that people of Hispanic descent don't like rock music - yet the AQH comp for KROQ shows otherwise. I do wish Arbitron would do weighting for Asian. While many of them are from different countries around the world (not unlike Hispanic), they are actually a larger percentage of the L.A. metro than African American.

I think it would be great to see what they are listening to - and I'd expect Mimi is correct that rock formats would show up there.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

As to second generation Americans of any origin... a large percentage are bicultural, so will share general market music interests as well as those specific to the root culture. For example, a huge percentage of listeners to Spanish language stations are second generation.

Actually David, you are essentially correct. But you'll also see that second generation Americans who have any
measurable interests in music of the root culture are overwhemingly Spanish language listeners. There is very very
little listening in other (non-english) language formats by those identified as second generation.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

I think Mimi has some good points. There's a myth that people of Hispanic descent don't like rock music - yet the AQH comp for KROQ shows otherwise. I do wish Arbitron would do weighting for Asian. While many of them are from different countries around the world (not unlike Hispanic), they are actually a larger percentage of the L.A. metro than African American.

I think it would be great to see what they are listening to - and I'd expect Mimi is correct that rock formats would show up there.

Its not so much whether there is Hispanic appeal. Its how well the station is programmed and how well that niche fits in with the other stations in the market. Although KFOG does well in SF, there isn't a formidable Classic Rock station effecting it the way a heritage station like KLOS and ARROW did to the previous incarnations of AAA in LA. The KLOS problem will still exist. In Chicago, (and in Denver for that matter where KBCO ruled), there was no dominant alternative
like KROQ to eat away at that audience segment. So these stations worked in these markets because there was enough elbow room to do so. Thats not the case in Los Angeles. So its going to be a much tougher time, EVEN with the white, male audience that most AAA stations hold as their core. With that said...Bonneville will give it a better shot than anyone has before, but it IS the format that has failed every time its been tried in LA.

And Mimi, you are great!!

 

[davideduardo]

I think Mimi has some good points. There's a myth that people of Hispanic descent don't like rock music - yet the AQH comp for KROQ shows otherwise.

There are a number of caveats here, though. First, English langauge rock is very popular in Latin America... in fact, it is considerably more popular than Spanish language rock. But the type of person who listens to English rock on the radio in Latin America is among the least likely to emigrate, as they are predominantly middle and upper class economically.

So, since immigrants coming to the US with a taste for English language rock are few, the taste has to be created, and is usually not found in quantity till the third generation. The second generation and younger firsts may find pop or hip hop, but seldom rock of the harder kind... this is why the first move from CHR tends to be to stations like KROQ which is a linear progression (although mostly male, as females tend to either go in the AC direction or are subject to "cultural reversion" when they form families).

But going from pretty mainstream alternative to AAA is quite a leap. I see little of interest in the format for the vast bulk of LA Hispanics.

 

[leethalweapon]

Would CBS have been a better company to operate a AAA station in LA? My reason behind this is, a natural extension on the KROQ brand. People who grew up with KROQ would have a place to migrate to when the KROQ brand became to overwelming for them. It has the added bonus of keeping the listeners in the CBS family.

 

[ercjncpr]

Would CBS have been a better company to operate a AAA station in LA? My reason behind this is, a natural extension on the KROQ brand. People who grew up with KROQ would have a place to migrate to when the KROQ brand became to overwelming for them. It has the added bonus of keeping the listeners in the CBS family.

CBS may have more $$ available to promote the format and to support it (plus their deal with AOL). But ultimately it is not a format that does well in LA any more.

 

[scooty430]

L.A. is loaded with so many musicians and other musically knowledgeable entertainment folk, that it really should have a hipper rock and roots station for adults. AAA is a bit too mild and "tested for your approval" for what I mean. This station would....

- not be voice tracked
- play new, old, and in-between
- play all kinds of rock, jazz, blues, alt-country.....quality rock for open-minded and passionate music fans
- feature musically knowledgeable and passionate DJs
- not be obscure or elitist like KCRW or, at times, Indie
- on the other hand, not be mass market and mostly corporate, like most AAAs
- be a voice for the city and have some personality and spirit

I don't know (or care) if the station would be a Top 10 ratings success. I'm just saying it's what the city needs.

 

[JimmyJames]

I'm a bit confused how you can describe a station that plays "rock for open minded and passionate music fans" and what you'd mean by obscure? I don't find KCRW particularly obscure, so much as introducing new artists - which would seem to be one of the strongest components of a station such as you're describing. Where exactly do you personally draw the line between mass market and obscure?

Scooty, you might also wish to check out KHUM.com. It's a commercial freeform station in Northern California which plays rock, jazz, blues, soul, funk and acoustic music.

 

[davideduardo]

L.A. is loaded with so many musicians and other musically knowledgeable entertainment folk, that it really should have a hipper rock and roots station for adults.

Yeah, there must be literally several thousand professional musicians and several thousand more composers and lyricists and such.

... out of a market of 13,000,000.

 

[Tibbs4]

I may be hanging myself here, but I have to say I really like this stations music mix. It's resfreshing. It's not all those
choppy, cheesey songs from various decades. It may be slightly out of line with it's demo for LA. I wonder how it would
do in other Top 50 markets? I have listened to it for three or four days and many people are asking what the station
is and making positive comments to many songs they just don't hear. To me, it ain't normal radio, it's actually good.
Therefore, it's sunk. David --- yeah, it's off the mark for LA's mtk. I dunno, maybe it's actually to cool for LA. They blow it
about every 15 songs, but that's a pretty good law of averages when it's usually 50/50 good/bad. I guess they should
just sign it off. I've researched music forever and people seem to almost always pick the worst songs tested. Anyone
else actually willing to defend this "fiasco?" Ah, never mind. It's R-I. ;D

 

[ofthevoice]

Was in L.a. last week for work and tuned in...LOVED the Sound! I do hope it sticks around awhile

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Los angeles is a city that actually seems to care about the listener to some degree the sound and indie 1031 and a decent variety hits station.Now if we can get a good chr going here ;D