Phil Hendrie is on 820 WWBA right now. I think he would be a great fit, but I would be surprised to see that happen.
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102.5 to flip to FM talk in two weeks
- Thread starter byron
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scottsvb5 said:chrocket87 said:
Um kids are into today's Metal.. like Avenged Sevenfold, 5 Finger death Punch.. they are what is selling.... alternative stations are hanging on barely by the 32-38 year olds. Active rock always beats out Alternative rock.
Funny didn't see them among the Top 100 albums last year....oh wait, had to click through a few pages:
Avenged Sevenfold..#133
Five Finger Death Punch #179 (interesting fact...this was out-sold last year by a budget Lynyrd Skynryd compilation).
Not selling. Maybe enough to warrant a spin or two on 98Rock or 97X among the more popular fare, but not enough to build a format around.
As for "Active rock always beats out Alternative rock". This certainly doesn't apply to actual music sales. As far as ratings, one need look no farther than Jacksonville at Cox-owned 97X clone WXXJ to disprove that statement. And in the top 10 markets (spread across the country, so this is not a regional phenomenon) the top flavor of current rock station?
New York: Alt. (an out-of-market signal, as NYC proper has no current rock station).
L.A.: Alt. (KROQ is also the 7th largest billing station in the US).
Chicago: Adult Alt.
San Fran: Alt.
Dallas/Ft. Worth: Alt.
Houston/Galveston: Alt.
Washington D.C. Alt.
Philly: Rock
Atlanta: Rock (no major Alt. station in the market)
Boston: Alt.
yeah..."always". :
As for what "the kids" are actually listening to, you'll find that on 'FLZ and Hot (where what little rock you'll find is on the alternative side). If "the kids" were actually still into "metal", the stations that cater to them would be playing it. The "kids" around here all seem to be listening to Hip Hop, Dance/Pop, a side of Alt. Rock, and a splash of dubstep.
They seem to like sharing it, too (usually at 3am driving past my house).
Back to "The Bone"...I'd suggest the syndicated "Loveline" for late nights, but it's already tied up at WSRQ-AM Sarasota.
I also wonder if Fisher will make the jump over to 102.5.
You posted no facts Obtuse. Everything you posted were flawed. First off when talking about kids.. they listen to Metal-Rock-Hip Hop. More Metal today then 5 years ago, but there is a lack of metal stations in the major markets. Of course kids listen to Hip-Hop... the statement was Active Rock vs Alt rock. Some of the Top markets don't have a Active Rock station and some like here in Tampa, don't play alot of Todays Active Rock.. they are recurrents mostly or same old songs from 2-20 years ago grunge scene.
Some of the Alternative Markets that do well are ones with Great Morning Drives or Afternoon.. look at 102.5... without Bubba or Cowhead.. the station is dead.. but with them.. they lead the 18-34 age group and that's what Rock caters to. Alternative rock songs are also played on some Top 40 stations.. like FLZ for example.. so they get more of a fan base from 12-21 year old girls that listen to some rock mixed in. But for True Rock stations.. Active Rock beats out every Alternative Station when both are in the same city unless the Alternative Drive time is better than who's DJ'ing the Active Rock Station.
97X is a great example of how much no one listens to it.. It's horrible Alt music, horrible playlist and that station needs to flip or do something.
Some of the Alternative Markets that do well are ones with Great Morning Drives or Afternoon.. look at 102.5... without Bubba or Cowhead.. the station is dead.. but with them.. they lead the 18-34 age group and that's what Rock caters to. Alternative rock songs are also played on some Top 40 stations.. like FLZ for example.. so they get more of a fan base from 12-21 year old girls that listen to some rock mixed in. But for True Rock stations.. Active Rock beats out every Alternative Station when both are in the same city unless the Alternative Drive time is better than who's DJ'ing the Active Rock Station.
97X is a great example of how much no one listens to it.. It's horrible Alt music, horrible playlist and that station needs to flip or do something.
Scott.... here's the big flaw in your logic:
You're assuming the rock stations are aimed at young people. For the most part, they're not. While some are aimed 18-34, the real money is in 25-54, thus the preponderance of older and non-metal stuff. So what "the kids" are listening to doesn't matter, because they aren't the target audience.
The other big problem is that even if a really hard-edged station has some ratings, advertisers (who are generally adults) will not buy a station they can't stand. Urban has the same problem.
You're assuming the rock stations are aimed at young people. For the most part, they're not. While some are aimed 18-34, the real money is in 25-54, thus the preponderance of older and non-metal stuff. So what "the kids" are listening to doesn't matter, because they aren't the target audience.
The other big problem is that even if a really hard-edged station has some ratings, advertisers (who are generally adults) will not buy a station they can't stand. Urban has the same problem.
I hate to do it, but I have to agree with Scott on this one. All you old timers seem to forget what radio was like in your day, which totally explains the sorry state of radio these days. Parttimer's comment is like saying, WLCY would have fared better commercially by playing Lawrence Welk. The old farts who are programming these stations have ABSOLUTELY no idea what 20-somthings like myself want to hear. Let me give you a hint, neither 98 Rock or The Bone have it figured out (and that's why the bone is throwing in the towel)... And if 98 Rock's shows aren't already aimed at teenagers, I don't know what is! Seriously, that Kage Kult show sounds like something I would have been into when I was 14... beer can sound effects and fart sound effects... oh my, that's fancy.
The boomer generation has killed terrestrial radio (along with many other things) because they're so overly confident that they know what the next generations want. And apparently they think we have an attention span so short, that we won't notice they are only playing 30 songs, and voice tracking everything.... meh. This is why the only station I listen to anymore is WTAN.
The boomer generation has killed terrestrial radio (along with many other things) because they're so overly confident that they know what the next generations want. And apparently they think we have an attention span so short, that we won't notice they are only playing 30 songs, and voice tracking everything.... meh. This is why the only station I listen to anymore is WTAN.
Cedric said:
No, it would not. The business was different then, and not driven by agency buyers from somewhere else who just look at numbers on a computer screen to decide who gets buys and who doesn't. Bottom line is that a rock station, if it gets just 18-34 males, won't bring in that much money unless its ratings are off the charts. There's a lot more ad money out there for young females, thus the push to CHR. Rock has to get 25-54s.
And I'm not personally a fan of short playlists, but I worked for an owner once who wanted us to play fewer songs than our competitor. His logic was "any time a listener flips between us and them, I want us to be playing a better song." Now 30 songs is absurd if that's true, but his point was valid.
In 98 Rock's case, if they are treating it like a CHR and playing new songs, then a short list makes sense. I'm out of the market, haven't heard them in quite some time.
But if you guys really want variety and deep cuts, pony up the $15/month and get Sirius.
B
BIGRIGGER
Guest
30 songs ;D . Currents and recurrents maybe. You're not seeing the gold library or other level cuts...geez seriously dude ??? Of course I'm only speaking for 98rock LOL..
In our lastest playlist period on the website we played a total of 594 songs. This is measured by the week.
Here's the page where you can look through them all : http://www.98rock.com/iplaylist/playlist.html
rig
In our lastest playlist period on the website we played a total of 594 songs. This is measured by the week.
Here's the page where you can look through them all : http://www.98rock.com/iplaylist/playlist.html
rig
Ok, I always hear that all of the money is Females 25-54... yet every person who's ever told me that was a sales weasel, and make no mistake about it, sales people know NOTHING about radio or what the listeners want. I understand that the target demo for a station like FLZ or Hot is going to be Females 25-54, but outside of CHR/AC, I think the listening audience probably skews more towards older males these days. In my experience, most people under 30 are not very interested in listening to terrestrial radio anymore.
I am convinced that regardless of all the statistical mumbo jumbo, if a station wants to get ratings and in turn make sales... all they have to do is play something DIFFERENT. Check it, I'm in 98 Rock & The Bone's target demos, and I can't stand either of those stations, and I happen to enjoy mainstream rock music. I know I sound like a broken record, but the only reason radio is dying is because of the content. I'm sick of people telling me to get a satellite radio if I want to hear variety. I don't want a satellite radio, I've heard it, and it kinda sucks. I'd rather hear my local terrestrial stations remain relevant by not playing the same 30 songs over and over. And no, I don't literally think they play ONLY 30 songs... however the amount of repetition on Cox stations is absolutely nauseating. I have a 45 minute drive to work everyday, and there is just absolutely no reason I should hear 8 of the same songs on the way home, as I heard on the way in... this is overkill even for a CHR. Sometimes The Bone will even play the same song at the same time everyday. Tune in at 1:30pm any weekday, and I guarantee you, you will hear Helmet's Unsung... try it out for yourself... they did it EVERYDAY this week.
*edit*
To be fair to Big Rig. 98 Rock does have A LOT less repetition than The Bone... my sincerest apologies for DIRECTLY comparing you to that stinker... and congratulations on finally burying them... ok I've gotta do my show now. Peace out.
I am convinced that regardless of all the statistical mumbo jumbo, if a station wants to get ratings and in turn make sales... all they have to do is play something DIFFERENT. Check it, I'm in 98 Rock & The Bone's target demos, and I can't stand either of those stations, and I happen to enjoy mainstream rock music. I know I sound like a broken record, but the only reason radio is dying is because of the content. I'm sick of people telling me to get a satellite radio if I want to hear variety. I don't want a satellite radio, I've heard it, and it kinda sucks. I'd rather hear my local terrestrial stations remain relevant by not playing the same 30 songs over and over. And no, I don't literally think they play ONLY 30 songs... however the amount of repetition on Cox stations is absolutely nauseating. I have a 45 minute drive to work everyday, and there is just absolutely no reason I should hear 8 of the same songs on the way home, as I heard on the way in... this is overkill even for a CHR. Sometimes The Bone will even play the same song at the same time everyday. Tune in at 1:30pm any weekday, and I guarantee you, you will hear Helmet's Unsung... try it out for yourself... they did it EVERYDAY this week.
*edit*
To be fair to Big Rig. 98 Rock does have A LOT less repetition than The Bone... my sincerest apologies for DIRECTLY comparing you to that stinker... and congratulations on finally burying them... ok I've gotta do my show now. Peace out.
scottsvb5 said:
And BigRig... your station is alittle better over the past 2 years and always better than 97X or 102.5 playlist..but you still play the same old songs from 20 years ago. If you play more New Music and mix in some other recognizable music that isn't played everyday on your station.. the 18-44 age groupl will catch on more.
Parttimer said:
Advertisers may care more about females, but if there aren't that many females listening to terrestrial radio, why would advertisers still target that demo??? I don't even know any women who listen to terrestrial radio (with the exception of msmusicradio, and I don't even know her!) When I worked in sales it was at a talk radio station, so needless to say our target demo was OLD MEN lol.
...and CC paid Arbitron $101 Million last year for their services... no wonder the stations that play "something different" always lose. If it's true that playing "something different" is a sure way to fail, then why is it that everyone I talk to says they want more variety on their radio dial? I suggest that Arbitron's rating system is a fraud...
The whole idea of women not listening to radio is not true. My entire family, which includes 2 females listen to the radio. That is even when we had a car with and auxiliary port. The people I live with listen to the radio for music and if something happens when out and about. That and everyone I live with just have to listen to "Bob and Sheri" every morning. The people I live with say an MP3 Player doesn't give you News, Traffic and Weather reports in the morning. They also sat hooking in your MP3 Player is cumbersome when just driving to Wal-Mart to pick up groceries. That it is best just to turn on the radio.
Not to mention a good deal of cars don't have Satellite Radio or MP3 Port. Some people still may be driving older cars with only an AM/FM Cassette deck.You know some cars and trucks as late of 2002 are not even equipped with CD Players. Including my mom's 2002 Escort ZX2 or even some F-150 Trucks I ran across. While most people who still have the stock radio on their 1996 Chevy Caviler don't even turn on the radio some do.
I speak to the contrary, I agree with turning on the radio for Traffic and Weather conditions but that's it. I much prefer my MP3 Player if I'm out and about.
I also know a lot of female friends and acquiescences that listen to radio.
Not to mention a good deal of cars don't have Satellite Radio or MP3 Port. Some people still may be driving older cars with only an AM/FM Cassette deck.You know some cars and trucks as late of 2002 are not even equipped with CD Players. Including my mom's 2002 Escort ZX2 or even some F-150 Trucks I ran across. While most people who still have the stock radio on their 1996 Chevy Caviler don't even turn on the radio some do.
I speak to the contrary, I agree with turning on the radio for Traffic and Weather conditions but that's it. I much prefer my MP3 Player if I'm out and about.
I also know a lot of female friends and acquiescences that listen to radio.
For those of you who doubt most large & national advertisers make their ad buys based on women age 25-54....I know it for a fact:
For more than 20 years I sold a highly-rated and successful classic rock FM that was 60%-40% male/female....a great balance for a traditionally male format. When we got on most buys (75% were indeed Women 25-54), we were nearly always the last station to make the cut. And, the total dollars we got per buy were typically half that our country sister station.
Oh, I was also a jock/PD/MD for 2 decades before moving to radio sales...so...I worked in all areas of broadcasting...and was not just a "sales weasel".
Radio in 2012, sadly, is driven almost totally by revenue and wishes of advertisers. Huge corporations own most of the larger and mid-market stations...and when they are in charge, profit's all that matters. Not listeners, not the community, not station employees either.
Not happy about that? Call your US senator or congressman. The tel-com bill's passage in '96 is what started much of this crap. Not all of it...availability of automation to enable VTing that replaces live people is a big part of it too.
For more than 20 years I sold a highly-rated and successful classic rock FM that was 60%-40% male/female....a great balance for a traditionally male format. When we got on most buys (75% were indeed Women 25-54), we were nearly always the last station to make the cut. And, the total dollars we got per buy were typically half that our country sister station.
Oh, I was also a jock/PD/MD for 2 decades before moving to radio sales...so...I worked in all areas of broadcasting...and was not just a "sales weasel".
Radio in 2012, sadly, is driven almost totally by revenue and wishes of advertisers. Huge corporations own most of the larger and mid-market stations...and when they are in charge, profit's all that matters. Not listeners, not the community, not station employees either.
Not happy about that? Call your US senator or congressman. The tel-com bill's passage in '96 is what started much of this crap. Not all of it...availability of automation to enable VTing that replaces live people is a big part of it too.
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